Ferguson unrest

[Bob Macadoo]

Translation: You don't care about the facts. You just want to fabricate as many excuses as possible in order to absolve people of any responsibility for their own choices and put the blame on people who have nothing to do with the problems but don't have the correct skin color.

I notice some here use "translate" alot to connotate a separate meaning to what was written......as if that makes a persuasive aargument. .....kind of like adding "your ilk" to a statement adds intelligence to an otherwise dull prose.

[cybercoma]

I notice some here use "translate" alot to connotate a separate meaning to what was written......as if that makes a persuasive aargument. .....kind of like adding "your ilk" to a statement adds intelligence to an otherwise dull prose.

Everything that follows "translation" is usually a strawman, worthy of being ignored, yes.

[cybercoma]

Translation: You don't care about the facts. You just want to fabricate as many excuses as possible in order to absolve people of any responsibility for their own choices and put the blame on people who have nothing to do with the problems but don't have the correct skin color.

You don't know what I want or care about, so don't speak for me. I said "forget the cite" because it's irrelevant for the reasons I listed, but you couldn't be bothered reading the rest of that post. So take your idiotic strawman arguments somewhere else.

[Keepitsimple]

That black people die at twice the rate that they should given the percentages.

In total, they actually die at four times the rate that they should - given the percentages......almost exclusively at the hands of other black people - 52% of all homicides/13% of the population. If you put so much faith in "percentages", don't you think those facts - and all that violence - might help to explain why there are more "escalated" confrontations with police?

Edited December 30, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[poochy]

You don't know what I want or care about, so don't speak for me. I said "forget the cite" because it's irrelevant for the reasons I listed, but you couldn't be bothered reading the rest of that post. So take your idiotic strawman arguments somewhere else.

Fix it for them, what must american society do to wipe clean any generational problems that still exist due to slavery that you can't just expect the people themselves to overcome? Other cultures have been badly mistreated and don't seem to have this same problem, tell us why, and how do should it be fixed. If everyone else is wrong shouldn't you have the answers?

[poochy]

In total, they actually die at four times the rate that they should - given the percentages......almost exclusively at the hands of other black people - 52% of all homicides/13% of the population. If you put so much faith in "percentages", don't you think those facts - and all that violence - might help to explain why there are more "escalated" confrontations with police?

But...racism.

[Black Dog]

In total, they actually die at four times the rate that they should - given the percentages......almost exclusively at the hands of other black people - 52% of all homicides/13% of the population. If you put so much faith in "percentages", don't you think those facts - and all that violence - might help to explain why there are more "escalated" confrontations with police?

You know white people die exclusively at the hands of other white people too, right?

[Keepitsimple]

You know white people die exclusively at the hands of other white people too, right?

So do Asians at the hands of Asians, Hispanics at the hands of Hispanics, etc..........but at far, far less frequency than blacks. Blacks commit more murders every year than "whites" and every other category combined! But you knew that was my point, didn't you?

[Black Dog]

Fix it for them, what must american society do to wipe clean any generational problems that still exist due to slavery that you can't just expect the people themselves to overcome?

If one believes that there are systemic barriers to the advancement of the black community in place and that racism is an inextricable part of American society due to the unique circumstances of its history, one would probably not have a laundry list of easy solutions. If one doesn't, it's easy to come up with easy solutions (stop having kids! get a job! pull up your pants). But that person is probably full of shit.

Other cultures have been badly mistreated and don't seem to have this same problem, tell us why, and how do should it be fixed. If everyone else is wrong shouldn't you have the answers?

What other cultures, specifically?

[Black Dog]

So do Asians at the hands of Asians, Hispanics at the hands of Hispanics, etc..........but at far, far less frequency than blacks. Blacks commit more murders every year than "whites" and every other category combined! But you knew that was my point, didn't you?

I'm not sure what your point is. Simply rattling off statistics isn't making a point, it's just...rattling off statistics.

[cybercoma]

Fix it for them, what must american society do to wipe clean any generational problems that still exist due to slavery that you can't just expect the people themselves to overcome? Other cultures have been badly mistreated and don't seem to have this same problem, tell us why, and how do should it be fixed. If everyone else is wrong shouldn't you have the answers?

Fix it for them? That's the problem. Too many generations of people like you thinking that we need to fix things for other people, as if we're benevolent benefactors doling out gifts.

[cybercoma]

What other cultures, specifically?

Natives in Canada.......oh wait.

[Keepitsimple]

I'm not sure what your point is. Simply rattling off statistics isn't making a point, it's just...rattling off statistics.

Those statistics are never part of the public discussion - and they should be - to give some perspective to the problem of police indiscriminately shooting black people. That's my point.....and you know that.

[Argus]

You know white people die exclusively at the hands of other white people too, right?

Not so much...

[Argus]

Fix it for them? That's the problem. Too many generations of people like you thinking that we need to fix things for other people, as if we're benevolent benefactors doling out gifts.

Oh, cool. So we don't have to do anything, then? Excellent!

[Argus]

Not so much...

http://humanevents.com/2013/07/19/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism/

[Black Dog]

Not so much...

83 per cent of white murder victims are murdered by whites. So yeah, pretty much. Oh and whites are six times as likely to be murdered by another white person as by a black person.

[Black Dog]

Those statistics are never part of the public discussion - and they should be - to give some perspective to the problem of police indiscriminately shooting black people. That's my point.....and you know that.

So you want to minimize and dismiss police shootings because some black people shoot other black people?

[Keepitsimple]

So you want to minimize and dismiss police shootings because some black people shoot other black people?

Those are your words - not mine.

[Black Dog]

Those are your words - not mine.

Then maybe you should make a point. Fact is, a cursory look at the last few months of debate show that, contrary to your suggestion that these crime stats are never talked about, it's virtually impossible to have a conversation about police violence without someone bringing up so-called black-on-black crime. So no, you aren't really bringing any sort of fresh perspective on the issue.

[Argus]

83 per cent of white murder victims are murdered by whites. So yeah, pretty much. Oh and whites are six times as likely to be murdered by another white person as by a black person.

83 percent is not 100 percent, and if you read the cite it eluded to but did not mention the fact that Hispanics, who commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime, just as Blacks do have, up until now, been included under 'Caucasian' in the FBI statistics. That is now changing. And just as the cite I posted suggests, we'll discover the great majority of ALL murders are committed by Blacks and Hispanics.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Argus

[Black Dog]

83 percent is not 100 percent,

No. But it's close enough to make the point: the overwhelming majority of all murders (and indeed, most crimes) are committed by people who are the same race as the victim.

and if you read the cite it eluded to but did not mention the fact that Hispanics, who commit a hugely disproportionate amount of crime, just as Blacks do have, up until now, been included under 'Caucasian' in the FBI statistics. That is now changing. And just as the cite I posted suggests, we'll discover the great majority of ALL murders are committed by Blacks and Hispanics.

Blacks and Hispanics are disproportionately represented as both victims and offenders. Most murders would be of blacks and Hispanics by other blacks and Hispanics. The rest would be largely whites killing whites.

[jbg]

Cite ?

Does that really need a cite? People from all countries, including black people, have continued to immigrate to the US throughout the 20th and 21st centuries in significant numbers.

And even that leaves out the amount of impregnation of female slaves by male slaveowners. Thomas Jefferson was not the only one to have some afternoon delight, by force, with their slaves.

[jbg]

These "demonstrations," especially ones that inconvenience the public, are counterproductive. Does anyone seriously think that creating monstrous traffic jams will really convince a lot of people to support reform of abusive policing. Are uninvolved people stuck in traffic jams really likely to agree with the cause?

Quote

jbg, on 17 Dec 1773 said:

These "demonstrations," especially ones that damage private property, are counterproductive. Does anyone seriously think that throwing a bunch of tea into the harbor will really convince a lot of people to support reform of continental tax policy. Are uninvolved people who don't get their tea really likely to agree with the cause?

Quote

jbg, on 8 March 1965 said:

These "demonstrations," especially ones that inconvenience the public, are counterproductive. Does anyone seriously think that creating monstrous traffic jams will really convince a lot of people to support civil rights. Are uninvolved people stuck in traffic jams between Selma and Montgomery really likely to agree with the cause?

I must confess that I didn't notice the 1773 and 1965 provenance of my posts. Very original even if I don't agree.

And the reason I don't agree is that the 1773 and 1965 situations involved people going about their business and authorities responding in a violent manner. In 1773 the tea partiers were vindicating their rights as Englishmen. Even in Selma there was no blockage of vital services. There is also no evidence of massive commuting between Selma and Montgomery. The NYC demonstrators were tying up vital connections such as the Brooklyn Bridge and the Lincoln Tunnel.

But still creative.

[Black Dog]

I must confess that I didn't notice the 1773 and 1965 provenance of my posts. Very original even if I don't agree.

And the reason I don't agree is that the 1773 and 1965 situations involved people going about their business and authorities responding in a violent manner. In 1773 the tea partiers were vindicating their rights as Englishmen. Even in Selma there was no blockage of vital services. There is also no evidence of massive commuting between Selma and Montgomery. The NYC demonstrators were tying up vital connections such as the Brooklyn Bridge and the Lincoln Tunnel.

But still creative.

The broader point, which you seem to keep missing, is that change seldom comes through non-disruptive means. You'd think someone from a country founded in a violent rebellion would grasp that.