How is this statement contraversial?

[WestCoastRunner]

Maternity leave means people don't get fired for taking time off to have kids. But you are expecting that their career will be the same as it would have been as if they had not taken time off. This is an unreasonable expectation - you can't treat someone as if they had a year's additional experience when they did not. The most they can expect is they can pick up there career where it left off which means they will be a year behind any collegues who did not take time off.

Well, of course they won't get that 4% raise while they were off having a baby. I get that. I'm not that unrealistic, but other than that, women on maternity leave should not be restricted in any way towards future promotions etc.

[WestCoastRunner]

Apparently he doesn't. He's equating trekking in Nepal with raising the next generation.

Heh, I suppose so!

[WestCoastRunner]

but don't expect it if your walking out the door at 5:01 every day.

I don't believe I was suggesting anything of the sort.

[WestCoastRunner]

The women were never expected to any of that, they could if they wanted, but generally they had family responsibilities and didn't.

They weren't expected because they were working probably in an administrative capacity. I'm not talking about those women. I'm talking about professional women who go on mat leave and who should be expected to return within the same earnings and promotional capacity as any other professional man working in the same position.

[Hal 9000]

I don't believe I was suggesting anything of the sort.

No, you weren't, but the point is; there is a lot more to earnings than meets the eye. Men give up a ton of family time to move up (in any industry), not too many women are willing to sacrifice that time for their job.

Here's something else we haven't explored yet; I work in a male dominated profession, my boss has been horny to have a crew leader who is a woman. He constantly trys pushing woman after woman up the ladder - until now they all failed miserably. Now, one female is decent - as decent as many of the guy's, however she's getting paid more than guys that have 2-3x's the experience (and are better at their job) and who should actually be leading their crews, but she's getting groomed and my boss brags to all our clients how we are truing a female crew leader.

[Hal 9000]

They weren't expected because they were working probably in an administrative capacity. I'm not talking about those women. I'm talking about professional women who go on mat leave and who should be expected to return within the same earnings and promotional capacity as any other professional man working in the same position.

In union and government jobs it is like that. The private sector is different because it's about production, knowledge and experience

[WestCoastRunner]

No, you weren't, but the point is; there is a lot more to earnings than meets the eye. Men give up a ton of family time to move up (in any industry), not too many women are willing to sacrifice that time for their job.

Here's something else we haven't explored yet; I work in a male dominated profession, my boss has been horny to have a crew leader who is a woman. He constantly trys pushing woman after woman up the ladder - until now they all failed miserably. Now, one female is decent - as decent as many of the guy's, however she's getting paid more than guys that have 2-3x's the experience (and are better at their job) and who should actually be leading their crews, but she's getting groomed and my boss brags to all our clients how we are truing a female crew leader.

Can you give me a cite as to how 'not too many women are willing to sacrifice'. I don't believe this for a second. Show me proof.

So your boss is horny, big deal. That happens in every profession. Not sure how that example relates to anything, except you work for a stupid company.

[WestCoastRunner]

In union and government jobs it is like that. The private sector is different because it's about production, knowledge and experience

I have worked in both environments. A professional woman working in a government job has just as many job expectations as a male counterpart. She can leave at 5:01 but of course she won't be open to as many advancements or raises, but that is up to her. Like you say, she has family responsibilities. But if she chooses to stay after 5, then she is equal in reimbursement and career advancements as her male counterparts regardless of how many maternity leaves she went on.

[On Guard for Thee]

Can you give me a cite as to how 'not too many women are willing to sacrifice'. I don't believe this for a second. Show me proof.

So your boss is horny, big deal. That happens in every profession. Not sure how that example relates to anything, except you work for a stupid company.

Sounds like it might be tinged with a bit of a "red neck" as well.

[Hal 9000]

Can you give me a cite as to how 'not too many women are willing to sacrifice'. I don't believe this for a second. Show me proof.

So your boss is horny, big deal. That happens in every profession. Not sure how that example relates to anything, except you work for a stupid company.

There's no stats if that's what you mean. I guess you could peek into some windows of local offices, if you see some lights on, i'll bet you it's a man/men working late.

[Hal 9000]

Sounds like it might be tinged with a bit of a "red neck" as well.

No, it's called over compensating.

[WestCoastRunner]

Sounds like it might be tinged with a bit of a "red neck" as well.

Well, there is that too. And it's hard for a woman to enter into a profession like that. Can you imagine a woman entering into the oil industry or other type of industry when she truly has an interest in it and being subjected to jealousy from colleagues because she is a woman and she is advancing, even though she may be smarter than them!

[WestCoastRunner]

No, it's called over compensating.

Over compensating? Please explain.

[Hal 9000]

Edited August 3, 2014 by Hal 9000

[WestCoastRunner]

There's no stats if that's what you mean. I guess you could peek into some windows of local offices, if you see some lights on, i'll bet you it's a man/men working late.

Then your statement is irrelevant.

[Hal 9000]

Well, there is that too. And it's hard for a woman to enter into a profession like that. Can you imagine a woman entering into the oil industry or other type of industry when she truly has an interest in it and being subjected to jealousy from colleagues because she is a woman and she is advancing, even though she may be smarter than them!

So, your assuming that there's jealousy and that she's smarter than the guys? I'm the one that trained her and I know exactly where she's at - which is this; she's decent! Decent is good enough to have her jump over a lot of qualified guys. There are about 7-8 guy's who have both more skills and are more experienced - sure they're pissed, not because she's a woman, but because they know whats going on.

[WestCoastRunner]

So, your assuming that there's jealousy and that she's smarter than the guys? I'm the one that trained her and I know exactly where she's at - which is this; she's decent! Decent is good enough to have her jump over a lot of qualified guys. There are about 7-8 guy's who have both more skills and are more experienced - sure they're pissed, not because she's a woman, but because they know whats going on.

That happens all the time in an environment where men are being trained by women. For example, in the banking industry, a woman trains a young man straight out of university on the banking practices in a branch. She teaches him thoroughly on all the best practices etc. But guess what, he gets the management position while she knows more than him! Sure, there are plenty of women in the branch who have worked there for years (without a university education) but they silently stand by and watch this young whipper snapper move on up because he has a university degree.

Can you explain the difference to me?

[On Guard for Thee]

Well, there is that too. And it's hard for a woman to enter into a profession like that. Can you imagine a woman entering into the oil industry or other type of industry when she truly has an interest in it and being subjected to jealousy from colleagues because she is a woman and she is advancing, even though she may be smarter than them!

Can't speak for the oil industry but I am in an industry that certainly has been and to some extent probably still is a "man's world" That would be aviation.However some odd years ago a your lady came to work for the company and became one of my copilots. She was thrilled at having moved up the so called ladder from traffic reporting to two crew all weather flying. She was as proffesional as any and a pleasure to work with. Even a bunch of old red necked pilots welcomed her and she rose through the ranks same as anyone else who showed the "right stuff"

[Hal 9000]

Then your statement is irrelevant.

Sorry - "not too (as) many women are willing to sacrifice'.

Is that a surprise to you? It should seem pretty obvious. A woman with a newborn will rarely if ever be asked to pull extra time in the workplace - especially for free. Employers know who to dangle the carrot in front of, who to strong-arm, and who to let go at quitting time. I've known woman to make it a condition of employment that they never be asked to work late or weekends. Sorry, its true -"not too (as) many women are willing to sacrifice'.

[WestCoastRunner]

Can't speak for the oil industry but I am in an industry that certainly has been and to some extent probably still is a "man's world" That would be aviation.However some odd years ago a your lady came to work for the company and became one of my copilots. She was thrilled at having moved up the so called ladder from traffic reporting to two crew all weather flying. She was as proffesional as any and a pleasure to work with. Even a bunch of old red necked pilots welcomed her and she rose through the ranks same as anyone else who showed the "right stuff"

It is daunting for a woman to enter into a profession dominated by men and I speak from experience. But it can be done, as long as we hold our own!

[WestCoastRunner]

Is that a surprise to you?

I have worked with many many professional women over the years and they would find your statement quite ridiculous to be frank with you.

[Hal 9000]

That happens all the time in an environment where men are being trained by women. For example, in the banking industry, a woman trains a young man straight out of university on the banking practices in a branch. She teaches him thoroughly on all the best practices etc. But guess what, he gets the management position while she knows more than him! Sure, there are plenty of women in the branch who have worked there for years (without a university education) but they silently stand by and watch this young whipper snapper move on up because he has a university degree.

Can you explain the difference to me?

Really?

[WestCoastRunner]

Is that a surprise to you?

I have worked with many many professional women over the years and they would find your statement quite ridiculousto be

Is that a surprise to you? It should seem pretty obvious. A woman with a newborn will rarely if ever be asked to pull extra time in the workplace - especially for free. Employers know who to dangle the carrot in front of, who to strong-arm, and who to let go at quitting time. I've known woman to make it a condition of employment that they never be asked to work late or weekends. Sorry, its true -"not too (as) many women are willing to sacrifice'.

Honestly, I'm not sure what my argument with you is on this.

[On Guard for Thee]

It is daunting for a woman to enter into a profession dominated by men and I speak from experience. But it can be done, as long as we hold our own!

When I took a notion I wanted to try rotary wing many moons ago, my first instructor was Annabelle. And she was no "wallflower" One of the smoothest pilots I've ever flown with.

[WestCoastRunner]

Really?

Now, one female is decent - as decent as many of the guy's, however she's getting paid more than guys that have 2-3x's the experience (and are better at their job) and who should actually be leading their crews, but she's getting groomed and my boss brags to all our clients how we are truing a female crew leader.

Do these fellas have university experience?