Should Bars Be Held Responsible for Drunk Drivers

[WestCoastRunner]

What does "over serve" mean? 2 drink maximum for everyone? No one can ever get drunk in a bar?

Bartenders/waiters/waitresses know how much they are serving their patrons. They can ask 'Do you have a DD?' "How are you getting home?" There is nothing wrong with asking these questions.

[The_Squid]

Bartenders/waiters/waitresses know how much they are serving their patrons. They can ask 'Do you have a DD?' "How are you getting home?" There is nothing wrong with asking these questions.

Not going to happen in a crowded bar. Unrealistic.

[Guest]

No it doesnt.

Yeah, my mistake. I should have said "should rest with, etc." I realise different jurisdictions will have different laws. Nevertheless, the responsibility should rest with the drinker.

I think the onus should be on the bar/pub to find out if the patron they are serving drinks to has a ride home (assuming this patron is getting totally hammered). If not, they should arrange transportation, otherwise they need to assume responsibility if this driver kills someone while driving home.

Like I said, the bar can try whatever it wants, including buying the drinker a new home within walking distance, but they should not (got the "should" in this time) be responsible for what the drinker does after (s)he has left the premises. Unless it can be shown that they were negligent by actively encouraging the excess consumption of alcohol by the drinker.

I think I'm over the legal limit after two pints of pale ale. I can walk out of a bar with no visible signs of the effects of alcohol after 6 pints.

[WestCoastRunner]

Not going to happen in a crowded bar. Unrealistic.

Many of these accidents happen after someone leaves a bar/pub in their neighbourhood at the local bar. The staff most likely knows their patrons. Crowded bars likely have plenty of transit as mentioned above. We need to be more concerned with bars/pubs that have no transit available.

[guyser]

See, there's many questions that need to be answered before so clumsily and ham-handedly going face first into thinking that this is such a great idea.

No, those questions have been answered.

Its a great idea for those bars that want to mitigate their exposures.

[Shady]

Bartenders/waiters/waitresses know how much they are serving their patrons. They can ask 'Do you have a DD?' "How are you getting home?" There is nothing wrong with asking these questions.

And what if they say they do have a DD? Then what?

[WestCoastRunner]

Unless it can be shown that they were negligent by actively encouraging the excess consumption of alcohol by the drinker.

There is a tremendous markup on drinks in a bar. Of course they will encourage alcohol consumption.

[guyser]

People who are drunk and who drive bear the responsibility of their actions.

Existing Case law does not agree with you.

And you already know that a drunk is in no position to know better....ergo...someone does. Who?

The bar staff and thats why the establishment can and dies get sued and loses some of these suits.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Guyser2

[Shady]

No, those questions have been answered.Its a great idea for those bars that want to mitigate their exposures.

No none of those questions have been answered. Bars aren't forcing beers down people's throats. The person that chooses to drink is. This is just another piece of the "it's not my fault, it's somebody elses" society we now live in.

[WestCoastRunner]

And what if they say they do have a DD? Then what?

I dunno. Silly response.

[Guest]

There is a tremendous markup on drinks in a bar. Of course they will encourage alcohol consumption.

Which bars do you frequent?

I admit I don't visit many, and not overly frequently, but I get around, and I have never been encouraged to drink in a bar.

"How are we doing here?" does not constitute encouragement.

[Shady]

Existing Case law does not agree with you.And you already know that a drunk is in no position to know better....ergo...someone does. Who?The bar staff and thats why the establishment can and does get sued and loses some of these suits.

Complete nonsense. Bars have both won and lost cases. It's mixed. Regardless, it doesn't mean it's right.

[WestCoastRunner]

Bars aren't forcing beers down people's throats. The person that chooses to drink is. This is just another piece of the "it's not my fault, it's somebody elses" society we now live in.

Bars are profiting from pouring drinks down their patrons throats. And then they are sending them out on the road. Time for them to step up to the plate and take on some responsibility for their profit taking.

[WestCoastRunner]

"How are we doing here?" does not constitute encouragement.

It doesn't? Why not say "Can I bring your bill now"?

[Shady]

I dunno. Silly response.

You mean you're question was silly. Do you think people will answer honestly? How will you verify the validity of their answer? See, you haven't really thought any of this through.

[WestCoastRunner]

Complete nonsense. Bars have both won and lost cases. It's mixed. Regardless, it doesn't mean it's right.

Anything we can do to reduce impaired driving is good, no?

[guyser]

This idiotic reasoning could be applied to virtually every industry.

Naw, its just idiotic because you have no talent to see the reality , reinforced here with some lovely grin inducing attempt at reasoning

For example, should Goodlife Fitness make sure that their clients aren't working out too strenuously, lest somebody does physical harm to themselves.

Ok, what did Goodlife provide the clients to become impaired ?

Should Tim Horton's monitor a customers donut intake, as to prevent them from suffering from diabetes or obesity?

Tims sells booze now? Who knew?

Should the LCBO and/or Beer Stores limit the amount of alcohol customers can purchase, as to prevent alcoholism?

Uh...duh, yea they already do this. Not to prevent alcoholism, but drunks cant buy booze and if you show up multiple times in a day theyll refuse you.

Should retailers have to limit the purchases of customers if they think they're overspending?

Who died as a result of the overspending?

No more personal responsibility! It's all up to somebody else! Yay!

Speaking of "clumsily and ham-handedly " this post has it all.

Go and think about this for about a month, it may come to you.

[Shady]

Bars are profiting from pouring drinks down their patrons throats. And then they are sending them out on the road. Time for them to step up to the plate and take on some responsibility for their profit taking.

Actually, it's the patron that pours the drinks down their own throats. It's called responsibility. It's one of the reasons there's a drinking age.

[Shady]

Anything we can do to reduce impaired driving is good, no?

Anything? No.

[WestCoastRunner]

Do you think people will answer honestly? How will you verify the validity of their answer?

That is exactly my point. As I mentioned above, let's keep an open mind and work together to reduce the number of victims due to impaired drivers.

[guyser]

And what if they say they do have a DD? Then what?

They are given a wrist tag and if seen comsuming alcohol they get cut off and thrown out before they are impaired.

Its not perfect for sure

[The_Squid]

Existing Case law does not agree with you.And you already know that a drunk is in no position to know better....ergo...someone does. Who?The bar staff and thats why the establishment can and does get sued and loses some of these suits.

I get drunk all the time and don't drive. I don't get stupid as soon as I drink to excess. That's just plain wrong headed.

Those judgements are idiotic. Sheer stupidity that someone else is to blame for my actions if I drink and drive.

[The_Squid]

They are given a wrist tag and if seen comsuming alcohol they get cut off and thrown out before they are impaired.Its not perfect for sure

Lol. It's not perfect... It's plain dumb. They will just say they're taking transit.... Or being picked up.

[Shady]

Naw, its just idiotic because you have no talent to see the reality , reinforced here with some lovely grin inducing attempt at reasoningOk, what did Goodlife provide the clients to become impaired ?Tims sells booze now? Who knew? Uh...duh, yea they already do this. Not to prevent alcoholism, but drunks cant buy booze and if you show up multiple times in a day theyll refuse you.Who died as a result of the overspending? Speaking of "clumsily and ham-handedly " this post has it all.Go and think about this for about a month, it may come to you.

Why are you limiting liability to just alcohol?

[guyser]

No none of those questions have been answered. Bars aren't forcing beers down people's throats. The person that chooses to drink is. This is just another piece of the "it's not my fault, it's somebody elses" society we now live in.

Sadly you have to have some knowledge of the industry and the law.

Get some, come on back and we can talk. You are right now, so far wrong it aint funny.