Online Voting in Canada

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

What's to prevent fraud, ie: "Hey honey, since you don't care about voting do you mind if I use your e-vote and online voting security code to cast another vote of mine in your name?". I don't think it's a bad thing to vote in person and show your face.

Of course it isn't a bad thing to vote in person and show your face. But why not implement other measures to increase the number of voters.

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

What's to prevent fraud, ie: "Hey honey, since you don't care about voting do you mind if I use your e-vote and online voting security code to cast another vote of mine in your name?". I don't think it's a bad thing to vote in person and show your face.

And let's not forget. We can file our income taxes online now. Mind you, we have to jump through a lot of hoops and fires to do so. Why not have the same procedure to vote. Surely, filing income tax returns online has many more security issues than voting online!

TimG · April 13, 2014

Well, if they do get to this point, let's hope they have a top notch IT team to test the security features and that the system performs up to the highest standards.

It is not the IT team that matters because they are not the ones making the decisions about the ID verification process. They will simply implement whatever policies that elections canada lays out and if elections canada does its job then few people will find online voting easier than showing up at a poll.

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

if elections canada does its job then few people will find online voting easier than showing up at a poll.

How do you know that?

TimG · April 13, 2014

And let's not forget. We can file our income taxes online now.

Online voting is more complicated because your vote is supposed to be secret. If you want to give up a secret ballot then the problem would be a lot easier.

TimG · April 13, 2014

How do you know that?

From my experience designing secure online systems. Edited April 13, 2014 by TimG

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

Online voting is more complicated because your vote is supposed to be secret. If you want to give up a secret ballot then the problem would be a lot easier.

I'm quite sure software can be written to ensure that your vote is secret. Online transactions take place everyday with credit card numbers, etc. This is a no-brainer. You are making it much more complicated than it is.

TimG · April 13, 2014

I'm quite sure software can be written to ensure that your vote is secret. Online transactions take place everyday with credit card numbers, etc. This is a no-brainer. You are making it much more complicated than it is.

No - you don't appreciate the complexities. With all banking transactions there are two parties with an interest in ensuring the transaction was correct. Both parties know how each other is and so to the banks handing the transaction. If an error occurs the transactions can be reversed.

With a secret ballot you would not be able to reverse the transactions because keeping records that would allow such a reversal would eliminate secrecy. This means you would need to have strict measures for verifying identity. This would likely mean a personal code issued for each election that you would have to pick up personally after proving your eligibility to vote by presenting ID at the local elections office.

Like I said: software is easy. The real security problems come from the process.

Edited April 13, 2014 by TimG

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

No - you don't appreciate the complexities. With all banking transactions there are two parties with an interest in ensuring the transaction was correct. Both parties know how each other is and so to the banks handing the transaction. If an error occurs the transactions can be reversed.

With a secret ballot you would not be able to reverse the transactions because keeping records that would allow such a reversal would eliminate secrecy. This means you would need to have strict measures for verifying identity. This would likely mean a personal code issued for each election that you would have to pick up personally after proving your eligibility to vote by presenting ID at the local elections office.

I do appreciate the complexities in fact. I work in IT and I am a software programmer. It's not hard to do. It can be done.

Wilber · April 13, 2014

When you look at what people in Afghanistan and some other places are prepared to endure and risk in order to vote, it is hard to sympathise with people who are just too lazy to get off their fat asses and take 45 minutes out of their day to visit a poling station once every one or two years.There are systems in existence that assist seniors and the disabled to vote, in fact, they have a higher voter turnout than the general population.

However, I would be in favour of internet voting for the disabled but could care less about all the other lazy slobs who just can't be bothered.

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

However, I would be in favour of internet voting for the disabled but could care less about all the other lazy slobs who just can't be bothered.

I think you are missing the characteristics of a huge demographic of society. Younger people use technology to conduct their day to day activities. That is something that is not going to change and in fact it will only increase. They are probably thinking, "Why would I want to walk 2 blocks to vote", "Why can't I vote online?". "I can do pretty much everything else online, why not vote"?

We need to keep up with the trends of our demographics, not so much technology.

TimG · April 13, 2014

I do appreciate the complexities in fact. I work in IT and I am a software programmer. It's not hard to do. It can be done.

You don't seem to understand that reliable online security is a business process problem - not a software problem. You may be too lost in the technology to realize this.

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

You don't seem to understand that reliable online security is a business process problem - not a software problem. You may be too lost in the technology to realize this.

No, I'm pretty sure I'm not lost. I understand the whole process.

TimG · April 13, 2014

No, I'm pretty sure I'm not lost. I understand the whole process.

Then why do you keep talking about it as a software problem when it is not a software problem? If you understood the whole process you would realize that the software is a small part of the process.

Look there could be an easy way to bring online voting: use the exact same process that is used for snail mail voting but submit the envelop by computer.

However, have you looked at the snail mail process? Do you honestly think that would be easier than going to a poll?

Edited April 13, 2014 by TimG

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

Then why do you keep talking about it as a software problem when it is not a software problem? If you understood the whole process you would realize that the software is a small part of the process.

Again, you are making this way more complicated. There is a solution. Software development includes business requirements etc.

Wilber · April 13, 2014

I think you are missing the characteristics of a huge demographic of society. Younger people use technology to conduct their day to day activities. That is something that is not going to change and in fact it will only increase. They are probably thinking, "Why would I want to walk 2 blocks to vote", "Why can't I vote online?". "I can do pretty much everything else online, why not vote"?

We need to keep up with the trends of our demographics, not so much technology.

How long do you think before we evolve into a species with no legs? The exercise will do them good.

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

How long do you think before we evolve into a species with no legs? The exercise will do them good.

Now that is a good argument against online voting! Unfortunately, they won't buy it.

Moonlight Graham · April 13, 2014

Of course it isn't a bad thing to vote in person and show your face. But why not implement other measures to increase the number of voters.

IMO people who are informed and follow politics will take the time to go out and vote. I don't think it's a good thing for lazy uninformed people to be given the most lazy-accessible ways to vote.

I also don't think the emphasis should be on getting more young people to vote, the emphasis should be on getting more young people informed & politically active...which will then naturally lead them to go out and vote in higher numbers.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Moonlight Graham

Wilber · April 13, 2014

Now that is a good argument against online voting! Unfortunately, they won't buy it.

Don't care. Why should I? They don't.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Wilber

Moonlight Graham · April 13, 2014

I'm quite sure software can be written to ensure that your vote is secret. Online transactions take place everyday with credit card numbers, etc. This is a no-brainer. You are making it much more complicated than it is.

Given the recent NSA revelations, I don't trust any online privacy worth a damn. I would never trust my online vote to be secure, private, and counted accurately.

Wilber · April 13, 2014

IMO people who are informed and follow politics will take the time to go out and vote. I don't think it's a good think for lazy uninformed people to be given the most lazy-accessible ways to vote.

I also don't think the emphasis should be on getting more young people to vote, the emphasis should be on getting more young people informed & politically active...which will then naturally lead them to go out and vote in higher numbers.

I agree. If a high percentage of 80 year olds can make the effort, 20 year olds have no excuse.

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

IMO people who are informed and follow politics will take the time to go out and vote. I don't think it's a good think for lazy uninformed people to be given the most lazy-accessible ways to vote.

I also don't think the emphasis should be on getting more young people to vote, the emphasis should be on getting more young people informed & politically active...which will then naturally lead them to go out and vote in higher numbers.

Again, this is missing the point. Society is in the digital era/age, whatever you want to call it. We can do everything online now, buying, filing income tax returns, paying bills, finding a mate, it goes on and on. Why on earth can we not vote online! It is time to move forward. It has nothing to do with laziness on anyone's part. Voting online is something that is going to be demanded in the near future. And, I suppose, that these young people as they get older, they will implement these online voting capabilities. Just as us baby boomers are demanding better health care/facilities to meet our aging needs.

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

Given the recent NSA revelations, I don't trust any online privacy worth a damn. I would never trust my online vote to be secure, private, and counted accurately.

Online voting will happen. There is no doubt about it. It's a matter of when not if.

TimG · April 13, 2014

Online voting will happen. There is no doubt about it. It's a matter of when not if.

It will happen the same year that people give up cash and do everything electronically.

WestCoastRunner · April 13, 2014

I agree. If a high percentage of 80 year olds can make the effort, 20 year olds have no excuse.

I am not talking 20 year olds. Think 20-30 year olds. They have grown up in the digital and social media age. If we want to engage them in politics and voting, we need to embrace their way of life and habits.