BC Teachers Getting Screwed...Again

[socialist]

I am curious as why you would call out BC's post for lack of substance yet you say nothing in regards to young Socialists blather? Could it not be that you are blinded by ideology now could it? OK, having said that, I still appreciate your being able to muzzle his neo-liberal crap at least for a little while. But I am still really glad that he is arguing on your side of this debate. It would really suck to have him representing something akin to my point of view.

The BCTF has come out with a new proposal to jumpstart negotiations. This is an indicator that the BCTF is the serious party trying to find a solution to this lockout. The BCTF is proving to be flexible. Let's see if the government is flexible. The BCTF is trying their hardest to get learners back into the classrooms.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1393339/new-teachers-proposal-jumpstarts-bargaining/

[Bryan]

The BCTF has come out with a new proposal to jumpstart negotiations. This is an indicator that the BCTF is the serious party trying to find a solution to this lockout. The BCTF is proving to be flexible. Let's see if the government is flexible. The BCTF is trying their hardest to get learners back into the classrooms.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1393339/new-teachers-proposal-jumpstarts-bargaining/

It's an indication that they know they are wrong and have no choice but to give up their untenable position.

[socialist]

It's an indication that they know they are wrong and have no choice but to give up their untenable position.

Nope. Because the BCTF is concerned about kids. Look at all the support the BCTF is getting from the public, and it's increasing everyday as the public becomes educated about how under funded BCED is. The government is starting to realize that they have been wrong. I expect a deal soon.

[socialist]

I am curious as why you would call out BC's post for lack of substance yet you say nothing in regards to young Socialists blather? Could it not be that you are blinded by ideology now could it? OK, having said that, I still appreciate your being able to muzzle his neo-liberal crap at least for a little while. But I am still really glad that he is arguing on your side of this debate. It would really suck to have him representing something akin to my point of view.

This should hit home for you PCT. Actual people telling how cuts to education have hurt them. Pay close attention. http://www.rosslandnews.com/news/261996641.html

[socialist]

It's an indication that they know they are wrong and have no choice but to give up their untenable position.

Take a look at how corporations pay almost no tax in BC. You running out of excuses yet?

http://politicsrespun.org/2010/10/corporations-already-pay-virtually-no-tax-in-bc/#sthash.IDZoN8Jx.sUXQZUFl.dpbs

[TimG]

Nope. Because the BCTF is concerned about kids.

Really? I missed the part where the BCTF dropped all wage demands and insist that the government reduce class size with the savings. I guess kids needs are fine unless they get between the teachers and their wallet. Then kids get thrown under the bus.

[Pct2017]

If this whole teachers mess gets settled before the end of June, here is what they will settle at:

Term - 5 years

Salary - 6.5% over the five years. Signing bonus increased to $2,000.

Benefits - no change to current bloated package. If the salary component is greater than 6.5%, then the TF gives back some bennies to balance.

Class size - current standards, but instead of being legislated, they will be set in the collective agreement.

Class composition - no change, same as class size. More non-BCTF EA's will be hired to address concerns, but that will not be in this collective agreement, nor should it be.

Outstanding grievances - union agrees to drop all of them.

Govt appeal to Griffin ruling dropped.

Govt will reimburse cost of bennies for June. No compensation for individual teachers for lost wages in lock out.

Of course, all of this would have been readily available to the BCTF 12 months ago, but that is how they conduct their business.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Pct2017

[socialist]

If this whole teachers mess gets settled before the end of June, here is what they will settle at:

Term - 5 years

Salary - 6.5% over the five years. Signing bonus increased to $2,000.

Benefits - no change to current bloated package. If the salary component is greater than 6.5%, then the TF gives back some bennies to balance.

Class size - current standards, but instead of being legislated, they will be set in the collective agreement.

Class composition - no change, same as class size. More non-BCTF EA's will be hired to address concerns, but that will not be in this collective agreement, nor should it be.

Outstanding grievances - union agrees to drop all of them.

Govt appeal to Griffin ruling dropped.

Govt will reimburse cost of bennies for June. No compensation for individual teachers for lost wages in lock out.

Of course, all of this would have been readily available to the BCTF 12 months ago, but that is how they conduct their business.

Hmmm, I wonder if you are paid by the BCLIBS to troll this forum? You seem to have a lot of inside information for an average citizen.

Also, it is reported that the BCTF lowered wage demands. They are trying to get back to work and they are making all the concessions. If a deal is made, it will be because of the BCTF and there concern for kids.

[Pct2017]

Hmmm, I wonder if you are paid by the BCLIBS to troll this forum? You seem to have a lot of inside information for an average citizen.

Nope, I am just way smarter than you are, obviously.

[socialist]

Nope, I am just way smarter than you are, obviously.

How? You have no clue what is going on here. Check out https://twitter.com/hashtag/thisismystrikepay?src=hash for a dose of reality and an idea who really cares about kids. Open your mind and leave your ignorance at the door for once.

[Hal 9000]

Internet polls aren't worth a sheet.

Respondants to internet polls are generally the youth (who are skewed left)and women (who are also by in large skewed to the left), add in kids who really don't know the issues and implications of such matters, it's no surprise that internet polls favour the left wing ideals. If an internet poll shows a 50/50 split, that means that in the real world the left is in trouble, If the poll leans right, the left is in major trouble.

No one knows the amount of percentage points that we're talking about and no one knows how to correct or adjust for the discrepancy, including the polling companies themselves, but it is there and was proven in the last election.

Anyway, in the real world the teachers are not supported very much and even they are beginning to see this. They know that this 48 hour loophole has cost them what little support they had. The general consensus among people I know is that they will settle if the government throws them some sort of bone that shows that the teachers have faired well and done the right thing "for the children".

Essentially, the government will win but Christy Clark will have to go in front of the cameras and choke down a "teachers care" speech.

P.S - I still reserve the right to assume that the BCTF is delusional about the amount of public support they think they have

[Bryan]

Nope. Because the BCTF is concerned about kids.

If they were even remotely concerned about the kids, they wouldn't have walked out on them. The only thing they care about are their wallets.

[socialist]

Internet polls aren't worth a sheet.

Respondants to internet polls are generally the youth (who are skewed left)and women (who are also by in large skewed to the left), add in kids who really don't know the issues and implications of such matters, it's no surprise that internet polls favour the left wing ideals. If an internet poll shows a 50/50 split, that means that in the real world the left is in trouble, If the poll leans right, the left is in major trouble.

No one knows the amount of percentage points that we're talking about and no one knows how to correct or adjust for the discrepancy, including the polling companies themselves, but it is there and was proven in the last election.

Anyway, in the real world the teachers are not supported very much and even they are beginning to see this. They know that this 48 hour loophole has cost them what little support they had. The general consensus among people I know is that they will settle if the government throws them some sort of bone that shows that the teachers have faired well and done the right thing "for the children".

Essentially, the government will win but Christy Clark will have to go in front of the cameras and choke down a "teachers care" speech.

P.S - I still reserve the right to assume that the BCTF is delusional about the amount of public support they think they have

The BCTF is making concessions to get back to the classroom.

[socialist]

If they were even remotely concerned about the kids, they wouldn't have walked out on them. The only thing they care about are their wallets.

Bryan, look in Manitoba how great it is that the government supports teachers. That is all BC teachers want, a government that cares about education.

[Pct2017]

Bryan, look in Manitoba how great it is that the government supports teachers. That is all BC teachers want, a government that cares about education.

And it looks like that support is resulting in great achievements for the students, right? Not.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/manitobas-bottom-of-the-class-234369251.html

"For Manitoba, whose scores had dropped from the middle of the pack among provinces in 2006 almost to the bottom in 2009, it was yet another day of really bad news. Our students scored eighth in math -- only Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland and Labrador were worse -- and ninth in reading and science, ahead of only P.E.I.

Even worse, Manitoba's scores continue to drop every three years, to the point our students are below the global average in math this time, and barely above the mark in reading and science."

Guess the NDP govt in Manitoba better throw some more money at education in that province to solve that problem.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Pct2017

[socialist]

And it looks like that support is resulting in great achievements for the students, right? Not.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/manitobas-bottom-of-the-class-234369251.html

"For Manitoba, whose scores had dropped from the middle of the pack among provinces in 2006 almost to the bottom in 2009, it was yet another day of really bad news. Our students scored eighth in math -- only Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland and Labrador were worse -- and ninth in reading and science, ahead of only P.E.I.

Even worse, Manitoba's scores continue to drop every three years, to the point our students are below the global average in math this time, and barely above the mark in reading and science."

Guess the NDP govt in Manitoba better throw some more money at education in that province to solve that problem.

Now your an expert in Manitoba. Consider Manitoba's child poverty rates and you begin to understand the problems. Apparently they are still trying to climb out of problems caused by that province's Conservative government of the late 90s. Conservatives....go figure.

[socialist]

I know the haters here, PCT, Hydraboss, overthere, Bryan, and others won't want to see the awesome things BC teachers are doing for kids. But for those of you who want to see he great work teachers are doing, check this out. https://twitter.com/hashtag/thisismystrikepay?src=hash

This has gone viral. Absolutely amazing stuff!!!!

[Hal 9000]

I know the haters here, PCT, Hydraboss, overthere, Bryan, and others won't want to see the awesome things BC teachers are doing for kids. But for those of you who want to see he great work teachers are doing, check this out. https://twitter.com/hashtag/thisismystrikepay?src=hash

This has gone viral. Absolutely amazing stuff!!!!

Teachers spewing off about the great things they do and how the kids love them isn't evidence of anything. We can also start a twitter feed and tell stories of teachers bullying kids, playing favourites, refusing to attend sports functions or christmas concerts, spending their day on their computer, taking months to grade papers, being caught at the beach or ski hill when apparently "sick", plugging kids into videos because their too "whatever" to be bothered teaching etc etc.

Some teachers are fine, some not so much. Some nit witted twitter feed means nothing.

[socialist]

Teachers spewing off about the great things they do and how the kids love them isn't evidence of anything. We can also start a twitter feed and tell stories of teachers bullying kids, playing favourites, refusing to attend sports functions or christmas concerts, spending their day on their computer, taking months to grade papers, being caught at the beach or ski hill when apparently "sick", plugging kids into videos because their too "whatever" to be bothered teaching etc etc.

Some teachers are fine, some not so much. Some nit witted twitter feed means nothing.

The twitter feed means a lot. You posted a bunch of BC that isn't true. Your side has very little support. Try again.

[Bryan]

Now your an expert in Manitoba. Consider Manitoba's child poverty rates and you begin to understand the problems. Apparently they are still trying to climb out of problems caused by that province's Conservative government of the late 90s. Conservatives....go figure.

It's exactly the opposite. Our current NDP government is fiscally incompetent. They spend wild amounts of money on fanciful dreams, with no accountability for outcomes. The PC's ran this province right. We had fully balanced budgets by law, and far better outcomes in education, health care, and most other public services. We had less debt, lower taxes, and better services.

[Hal 9000]

The twitter feed means a lot. You posted a bunch of BC that isn't true. Your side has very little support. Try again.

No, all those things and more have happened this year with the exception of the Xmas concert being cancelled (that happened when my kids were in kindergarden). But whatever, the point is; you can try to make things mean whatever you want. Personally, with the amount of kids that a teacher teaches over their career, they'd have to be a pretty terrible person if they didn't have at least a few kids that they've touched in a big way. So what though, what does a few postings on twitter mean to whether the teachers should get a bigger raise than every other union that has already settled?

The teachers are elitists who think they're better than the rest of us, they're more cultured. If you don't believe me just go over to the teachers forums or the Tyee and check out how condescending they are towards parents and us regular folk.

[socialist]

Well here you go folks. The BCTF came to the table willing to bargain for a fair deal in good faith and the Liberals had no intent of settling this. I'm really impressed with Jim Iker. He's trying but the BC government isn't.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-teachers-strike-50-chance-of-deal-says-minister-1.2676400

[Big Guy]

I am not in BC but I predict the following;

The teacher unions will decide to go out on strike. The walkout continues - every week the teachers are out the government is saving 2% in teacher salaries. Teachers stay out for .... lets say 2 months. That saves the government about 18% in salaries. Government decides its getting too long and legislates teachers back to work and orders compulsory arbitration. Teachers get most of what they wanted but have already lost 18% (not counting strike pay) so end up losing. The government has saved enough money to pay the teachers the new rates and still save in the term of the contract kicking the problem down the road.

Next contract, teachers unions will decide to go out on strike. The walkout ...

[Derek 2.0]

I am not in BC but I predict the following;

The teacher unions will decide to go out on strike. The walkout continues - every week the teachers are out the government is saving 2% in teacher salaries. Teachers stay out for .... lets say 2 months. That saves the government about 18% in salaries. Government decides its getting too long and legislates teachers back to work and orders compulsory arbitration. Teachers get most of what they wanted but have already lost 18% (not counting strike pay) so end up losing. The government has saved enough money to pay the teachers the new rates and still save in the term of the contract kicking the problem down the road.

Next contract, teachers unions will decide to go out on strike. The walkout ...

The Government has already stated they won’t legislate teachers back……In the past, BC Governments (Liberals, NDP, Social Credit) have been willing to legislate the teachers back, which always allowed the BCTF a parachute, but this time the refusal to do so has thrown a wrench into the BCTF’s strategy….

This will very likely go into the new school year, and will only likely be partially resolved once teachers start having difficulty paying their mortgages……Only then can I see teachers willing to bend on class composition……

What’s funny, the Government negotiated into the recent CUPE settlement the hiring of new education assistants, which would have the added benefit of addressing some of the BCTF concerns, but the BCTF doesn’t acknowledge this, since of course CUPE members don’t pay dues to the BCTF and don’t have the same level of education……because of course one needs a University degree to help a student with severe downs syndrome go to the washroom or eat their lunch…..

[socialist]

The Government has already stated they won’t legislate teachers back……In the past, BC Governments (Liberals, NDP, Social Credit) have been willing to legislate the teachers back, which always allowed the BCTF a parachute, but this time the refusal to do so has thrown a wrench into the BCTF’s strategy….

This will very likely go into the new school year, and will only likely be partially resolved once teachers start having difficulty paying their mortgages……Only then can I see teachers willing to bend on class composition……

What’s funny, the Government negotiated into the recent CUPE settlement the hiring of new education assistants, which would have the added benefit of addressing some of the BCTF concerns, but the BCTF doesn’t acknowledge this, since of course CUPE members don’t pay dues to the BCTF and don’t have the same level of education……because of course one needs a University degree to help a student with severe downs syndrome go to the washroom or eat their lunch…..

Then why is CUPE standing side by side with the BCTF. I'll tell you why. It's called solidarity. We look out for each other against the corporatists who want to privatize everything.

I was happy to see many NDP MLAs speak out against the LIberals showing support for public education, and realizing how bad conditions are in BC schools.