Oscar Pestorius by Judge Not Jury

[WestCoastRunner]

We all know Pestorius will be judged by a black woman judge and not by jury. Do you think his case will be fairly judged?

I am curious as to how the judge will view the evidence in this case and how we will compare the decision given in this case to the atrocities in Florida jury cases. How do we measure a judges decision compared to a jury?

[Argus]

If he's found guilty and put away for the rest of his life I'll consider that fair.

His excuse is a joke, even without the now two people who have said they heard an argument/screams before the shots were fired.

[WestCoastRunner]

For once, I agree with you Argus. If a man gets up to check on a burglar, would he not first check that his woman is safe beside him in his bed?

[Argus]

For once, I agree with you Argus. If a man gets up to check on a burglar, would he not first check that his woman is safe beside him in his bed?

Here is the thing. When you live with someone, and hear a strange noise, you immediately assume it is them, and have no concern. The only time you don't is if they're next to you. It's different when you live alone. I've done both, most people have. I find it very hard to believe any man would not know if his wife was in bed with him, or check if he heard a noise. I find it impossible to believe he would hear a noise, immediately go for his gun, get out of bed, and still not notice his wife wasn't in bed with him. I find it absolutely incredible to believe he would then shoot through a closed bathroom door, in fear of a burglar (who came in to use his toilet!?), when he has a gun and the door is closed, without calling out to whomever might be on the other side of the door. It is an absurd excuse. And that's without any of the evidence of he and his wife fighting.

[On Guard for Thee]

Here is the thing. When you live with someone, and hear a strange noise, you immediately assume it is them, and have no concern. The only time you don't is if they're next to you. It's different when you live alone. I've done both, most people have. I find it very hard to believe any man would not know if his wife was in bed with him, or check if he heard a noise. I find it impossible to believe he would hear a noise, immediately go for his gun, get out of bed, and still not notice his wife wasn't in bed with him. I find it absolutely incredible to believe he would then shoot through a closed bathroom door, in fear of a burglar (who came in to use his toilet!?), when he has a gun and the door is closed, without calling out to whomever might be on the other side of the door. It is an absurd excuse. And that's without any of the evidence of he and his wife fighting.

I am no lawyer but I certainly can understand the logic in what you have said here. I'm pretty sure if I was woken middle of the night bv some kind of a noise, the first thing I would do would be to look for her. If not there, case closed, she's off to the loo or a midnight snack so back into dreamworld for me. If there then, what the hell caused the noise and go look. By far and away I reckon that is the strongest evidence against him. I guess we'll have to stay tuned.

[kimmy]

Leaving aside the question of whether how believable his excuse is... does anybody actually care about this murder trial?

I found it quite annoying when the story of the murder and his arrest that it was such big news here. A domestic murder case on the other side of the world is news? Why? Do people actually care about Oscar Pistorius? Some guy famous for running fast with flippers instead of feet? Great. Who gives a crap.

We have plenty of domestic murder trials right here in Canada and they don't make headlines. But here's this sensationalized tripe from the other side of the world and it's front page news because the guy is famous for running fast on his flippers. That's ridiculous. I think it's a sad indictment of the intelligence of either the people running newsrooms in Canada, or the general public, or both.

In my opinion Oscar Pistorius can go do a backflip into an empty pool, and the news directors that are cramming this crap down our throats can go drink Draino.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

Leaving aside the question of whether how believable his excuse is... does anybody actually care about this murder trial?

-k

Well, actually I do. I am curious to watch a trial by judge only, and the only 2nd black judge in that part of the world. How will she judge the facts compared to what has been done in Florida. I mentioned this in my first post.

[Bonam]

Well, actually I do. I am curious to watch a trial by judge only, and the only 2nd black judge in that part of the world. How will she judge the facts compared to what has been done in Florida. I mentioned this in my first post.

What was "done in Florida" and how does it relate to this case?

[guyser]

If he's found guilty and put away for the rest of his life I'll consider that fair.

His excuse is a joke, even without the now two people who have said they heard an argument/screams before the shots were fired.

I hear you but dont you stop and think.,..."the witness (who heard screams) lives 177 metres away from the house. "

177m?

That made me stop and go huh?

[bud]

We all know Pestorius will be judged by a black woman judge and not by jury. Do you think his case will be fairly judged?

I am curious as to how the judge will view the evidence in this case and how we will compare the decision given in this case to the atrocities in Florida jury cases. How do we measure a judges decision compared to a jury?

no black people are involved in the case, so i don't understand why you believe the judge's race is a factor.

[WestCoastRunner]

There are a couple of interesting facets to this case. One is that it is being tried by judge only. And she is only the 2nd black judge 'ever' in South Africa. Being a judge, I am sure she is impartial, however I am interested in seeing the wheels of justice applied to a powerful and wealthy white family in SA.

I have also not seen many cases such as this with all the sensationalism that is attached to it being tried by judge only with no jury. When I said Florida, I really wondered (and for sure there is no comparison) what would have happened if the Zimmerman and Dunn case were tried by judge only.

Yes, I wondered too about the 177m? The defence 'proved' that it could not be heard but will the prosecutors also 'prove' that screams could certainly be heard from that distance.

And I don't believe news directors are cramming this case down our throats. If you don't want to follow the case, then don't.

[-TSS-]

Leaving aside the question of whether how believable his excuse is... does anybody actually care about this murder trial?

I found it quite annoying when the story of the murder and his arrest that it was such big news here. A domestic murder case on the other side of the world is news? Why? Do people actually care about Oscar Pistorius? Some guy famous for running fast with flippers instead of feet? Great. Who gives a crap.

We have plenty of domestic murder trials right here in Canada and they don't make headlines. But here's this sensationalized tripe from the other side of the world and it's front page news because the guy is famous for running fast on his flippers. That's ridiculous. I think it's a sad indictment of the intelligence of either the people running newsrooms in Canada, or the general public, or both.

In my opinion Oscar Pistorius can go do a backflip into an empty pool, and the news directors that are cramming this crap down our throats can go drink Draino.

-k

I agree with you. I can understand if this is a big news in South-Africa but being the top news on BBC world service? WTF?

[guyser]

I agree with you. I can understand if this is a big news in South-Africa but being the top news on BBC world service? WTF?

I get what both you and kimmy are saying but the facts of this case scream for coverage.

Look at the angles.

Guy loses both feet (lower legs?) and gets prothetics ....can run with them, quite fast apparently.

Lobbies the IOC to let him run in the Oly's., gets accepted to do so.

Much hullabaloo surrounds this 'first' runner without feet, runs in Olympics, fame and fortune follow, the world is kind of interested in him.....

And then bang, a year later is charged with murder.

Most people, me included said 'huh? Why, he is irch, famous etc etc"

So news people cover it, ad naseum perhaps, but it is newsworthy to those that produce and those that consume.

[kimmy]

If it was a Canadian athlete, or an athlete in a sport that Canadians actually care about, I could understand why this is getting the Celebrity Trial treatment. But he's a South African, and nobody on this continent cares about track and field, except for the Men's 100m (for about 9.8 seconds every four years.) IMO just another example of pathetic drooling celebrity culture in search of a new celebrity event to sensationalize.

-k

[WestCoastRunner]

nobody on this continent cares about track and field, except for the Men's 100m (for about 9.8 seconds every four years.) IMO just another example of pathetic drooling celebrity culture in search of a new celebrity event to sensationalize.

-k

That is a bit presumptuous of you to assume no one cares about track and field whether it is in Canada or elsewhere. Let those of us who enjoy track and field and running as a sport revel in this sensationalized trial. We don't need you judging our voyeurism.

[kimmy]

I can't imagine why anybody would "revel" in a domestic violence trial.

-k

[BC_chick]

I can't imagine why anybody would "revel" in a domestic violence trial.

-k

OJ simpson's trial was the same. You may not understand it but many people do get intrigued by criminal trials and not just spousal abuse (Caylee Anthony for example).

Killing the people we love is so far fetched from our brains, there is a fascination. Always has been like that.

[Argus]

I hear you but dont you stop and think.,..."the witness (who heard screams) lives 177 metres away from the house. "

177m?

That made me stop and go huh?

Houses down there aren't made with the heavy insulating materials they do here. But I don't care if there are any witnesses at all. His story about shooting her through the bathroom door because he thought she was a burglar and never noticed she wasn't in bed with him is ludicrous.

[guyser]

Houses down there aren't made with the heavy insulating materials they do here.

His is a luxury house and as such would have insulation, but evn then.....I just think even a tin shacks walls are enough to shield some noise from 177m away.

I have issues with this case too, b ut not quite ready to say one way or another. The judge will decide

[Argus]

His is a luxury house and as such would have insulation, but evn then.....I just think even a tin shacks walls are enough to shield some noise from 177m away.

I have issues with this case too, b ut not quite ready to say one way or another. The judge will decide

I think if someone was 177 meters away and screamed at the top of their lungs you'd certainly hear it. I don't know for a fact how thick the walls are, but I doubt even the rich need much insulation down there. But as I said, his excuse is so ridiculous I don't really care. I know he's guilty.

Three months for a trial? This reminds me of a book I read years ago. A modern man returned to the middle ages through a time machine. He and a duke come across some men murdering people, and he shows the duke how a modern trial should be done. He laboriously interviews every single witness, going back and forth over every single detail while the duke gets progressively more bored and impatient. They were caught in the act and the trial was a waste of time. So is this one.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Argus

[WestCoastRunner]

Three months for a trial?

I believe it will be over in 3 weeks.

[-TSS-]

Remember the news a couple of weeks ago from South-Africa when trapped miners refused to be rescued because as illegal immigrants they feared deportation? Even though from the Western-European and North-American perspective South-Africa has an image of a terrible crime ridden country from the African pov it is a wealthy country full of opportunities.

[kimmy]

OJ simpson's trial was the same. You may not understand it but many people do get intrigued by criminal trials and not just spousal abuse (Caylee Anthony for example).

Killing the people we love is so far fetched from our brains, there is a fascination. Always has been like that.

Those aren't the only murder cases that become sensationalized, though. I remember about 10 years ago when that American highschool girl disappeared on her class trip to Aruba. One girl disappears... and it's a media sensation? Why? Lots and lots of people disappear. But this one happened to be a pretty white girl from a rich family and there was a possibility that it was a sex slaying. That much, I was used to. Nothing new about that.

But what made me stop and take notice of that particular case: at the time I was out of school, only worked evenings, and had the chance to watch daytime TV once in a while. I'm flipping channels, and amongst all the soap operas I find Access Hollywood or one of those shows. And instead of celebrity gossip and all that other stuff, they had wall to wall coverage of this girl's disappearance. And that stopped me cold. Why was this girl's disappearance on a Hollywood tabloid show? Since when is this "entertainment"? That's when it struck me how sick it was.

-k

[Rue]

The best Argus is that he says he sounds like a girl when he screams. From the evidence I heard he did it. However I wish to tell people South Africa has a very similar criminal law system to outs. Their courts of criminal law are very competent. The Judge's being black is immaterial. In fact if it was a white judge people could say that would not be fair either. The fact the judge is a woman and not a man works both ways too.

Sorry I aint buying the Judge is bias because she is either a woman or black. The evidence will speak for itself. This guy will appeal any trial decision anyways. Bottom line, his alibi makes no sense.

[BC_chick]

Those aren't the only murder cases that become sensationalized, though. I remember about 10 years ago when that American highschool girl disappeared on her class trip to Aruba. One girl disappears... and it's a media sensation? Why? Lots and lots of people disappear. But this one happened to be a pretty white girl from a rich family and there was a possibility that it was a sex slaying. That much, I was used to. Nothing new about that.

But what made me stop and take notice of that particular case: at the time I was out of school, only worked evenings, and had the chance to watch daytime TV once in a while. I'm flipping channels, and amongst all the soap operas I find Access Hollywood or one of those shows. And instead of celebrity gossip and all that other stuff, they had wall to wall coverage of this girl's disappearance. And that stopped me cold. Why was this girl's disappearance on a Hollywood tabloid show? Since when is this "entertainment"? That's when it struck me how sick it was.

-k

I read Hollywood gossip sites and they still throw in these types of stories. I figured they've done their market research and there is a link between small minded gossip mad small minded sensationalism.

I agree though, so many people commit crimes, how do they pick the ones that sell? Either they're brutally heinous, or there is sex appeal one way or another.

I've followed a bit of this one. It's got the gore and the glam. It's intriguing.