Are you a 'Data Absolutist' ?

[cybercoma]

Actually, it pretty much is. Anyone that's used StatCan data in their research knows that it's a mess. I'll give you an example, I use a longitudinal survey on children and youth in Canada. They don't even ask the same questions consistently across cycles. It's ridiculous.

[Michael Hardner]

Actually, it pretty much is. Anyone that's used StatCan data in their research knows that it's a mess. I'll give you an example, I use a longitudinal survey on children and youth in Canada. They don't even ask the same questions consistently across cycles. It's ridiculous.

And it's absolutely necessary that this information be well formed, correct, and easily usable - since we rely so heavily on government services, and there is no other way for a public to validate their output.

Those people who compare us endlessly to the US should note that, and be more critical of government services than they are IMO.

[eyeball]

And it's absolutely necessary that this information be well formed, correct, and easily usable - since we rely so heavily on government services, and there is no other way for a public to validate their output.

Well, the black-box, cameras, auditors and validators the government has deemed as absolutely necessary to monitor my output certainly work to keep me honest. I fail to understand why a similar system couldn't be improvised that does the same for them, and for the very same reason.

Edited April 1, 2014 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

Well, the black-box, cameras, auditors and validators the government has deemed as absolutely necessary to monitor my output certainly work to keep me honest. I fail to understand why a similar system couldn't be improvised that does the same for them, and for the very same reason.

Maybe because it's harder to hide tons of fish than it is to hide a dishonest transaction or a dull, details-heavy monologue that effectively shirks responsibility. Eyeball, these things are done today in front of news cameras and nobody bats an eye. They don't need to be nefarious, except when they're engaging in that minor pilfering that everybody loves to expose: penthouse apartments, expense accounts that are really chump change.

[eyeball]

It makes it harder for Joe-lunch-pail to even hide enough fish to take home. They'll happily bust you for the chump change.

In the meantime, they secretly facilitate the sort of licencing and quota stacking that results in 1 corporation catching as much as 40% of the entire coast-wide catch.

[Michael Hardner]

It makes it harder for Joe-lunch-pail to even hide enough fish to take home. They'll happily bust you for the chump change.

In the meantime, they secretly facilitate the sort of licencing and quota stacking that results in 1 corporation catching as much as 40% of the entire coast-wide catch.

Yes, and "the" public will bust you for chump change too.

What is the name of the corporation ?

[eyeball]

Canfisco...Jimmy.

BC Salmon Catch Increasingly Controlled by Few Corporations

But try and learn how they 'stack' quotas to cut jobs and up profit, and DFO says it's secret

[cybercoma]

And it's absolutely necessary that this information be well formed, correct, and easily usable - since we rely so heavily on government services, and there is no other way for a public to validate their output.

I, of course, agree with that statement. Taxpayers, however, don't want to pay for it. Longitudinal studies cost millions upon millions to create and maintain. Their benefit is not realized until many years later too.

Edited April 1, 2014 by cybercoma

[Michael Hardner]

Hmmm... an article ? You haven't posted that before have you ?

So, I shared that one on facebook first off, which is a minimum token do-nothing amount of effort that everybody interested could do The thing that rings alarm bells is the stonewalling by DFO. Was there a follow-up article ?

[Michael Hardner]

I, of course, agree with that statement. Taxpayers, however, don't want to pay for it.

You could repurpose this effort by eliminating/restructuring existing reporting. The real resisters are the bureaucracy. Taxpayers don't care, but I'm not convinced they have a hint as to costs.

Longitudinal studies cost millions upon millions to create and maintain. Their benefit is not realized until many years later too.

Sorry, you are probably right about the specifics but public reporting in general was what I was referring to.

[eyeball]

Delete

Edited April 3, 2014 by eyeball

[Michael Hardner]

All I can say is, booze is cheaper at the unionized liquor stores than anywhere else where I live.

My question again is did the Tyree follow up on that article from 2011 ?

[eyeball]

I meant to post the liquor store thing in another thread. My bad.

My question again is did the Tyree follow up on that article from 2011 ?

Well, it's just kind of an ongoing thing around here - just one more thing. What's there to follow up when there'll be something just as outrageous to write about?

The writer, Alan Haig-Brown, is well known around the coast and for his documentation of the history of BC's fishery.

[Michael Hardner]

I meant to post the liquor store thing in another thread. My bad.

Well, it's just kind of an ongoing thing around here - just one more thing. What's there to follow up when there'll be something just as outrageous to write about?

The writer, Alan Haig-Brown, is well known around the coast and for his documentation of the history of BC's fishery.

Did this controversy all happen so long ago that it pre-dated the internet though ? I don't think that paper is that well-known, so Haig-Brown should keep at it a little to get heard. At least you have a journalist on it.

Here's a suggestion - PM me his contact points, and I will send them to a journalist that covers non-front-page news in Canada. Listen, I'm willing to believe - to a point - that there are cover-ups, ignorance and yes even conspiracies. But we have to take these things as far as we can before throwing in the towel. My great uncle trekked from Vancouver to Regina by boxcar leading men striking for work during the depression. The PM then called them to Ottawa to meet, and told them to quit. They didn't and their men were set upon by the Regina police, with some killed. The PM lost the election.

That guy was an absolutist.

[eyeball]

It's an ongoing controversy Michael. I guess I'd say the latest is the gutting of DFO habitat protection in the path of Northern Gateway and of course the issue of salmon farms and ongoing infection of BC's wild stocks from introduced disease, See Alexandra Morton regarding her documentation of the slow but inevitable demise of many runs to disease, gagging of scientists and suppression of science. There have been lots of front page stories out here over the decades, Mark Hume is another writer, a reporter you could google up.

Virtually any east coast fishermen will tell you the same thing. It wasn't that wiped out their fishery You don't need data to see canaries dropping on every coastline on the planet.

The controversies span decades that long predate the Internet.

[Michael Hardner]

It's an ongoing controversy Michael.

So, I'm asking for a paper trail here. Or should I just Google as you suggest ?

[eyeball]

The trail is huge and runs in many directions. Yes, you google it. I just get pissed off when I do.