cybercoma Posted March 28, 2014 Report Posted March 28, 2014 It doesn't matter who they vote for. It matters that they be able to vote regardless. Quote
Keepitsimple Posted March 28, 2014 Report Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) It doesn't matter who they vote for. It matters that they be able to vote regardless. Ah....but it does. According to many, the Conservatives are doing this to steal the next election. Does that mean that you are willing to dismiss that part of the argument? And I'm still waiting for On Guard's response...... Edited March 28, 2014 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
Big Guy Posted March 28, 2014 Report Posted March 28, 2014 I believe that the process of who and how we vote should not be a matter of ideology. It is a basic concept that controls our democracy and affects all participants. It should be treated like our Constitution which requires a lot more then a majority government support to make changes. At this point in time, most of the conversation seems to circle around the question if it even needs “fixing”. We have a federal election coming up soon. It could be a ballot question as part of that process. I would also suggest that at least a 70% majority would be required to make any change. Any change in who can vote and how we vote is not a political partisan issue and should not be subject to political party control. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
Topaz Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Posted March 28, 2014 It's not 120, 000 but 520,000, who won't be able to vote and 400,000 are First Nations and so ALL Canadians can vote the feds should sent every Canadians an ID just for voting, then voters wouldn't have to worry if they can come up with one or two of 39 pieces of ID. The provinces, territories and the feds can work together to get it done so it can be used in ANY election. So someone tell Pierre. Quote
Smallc Posted March 28, 2014 Report Posted March 28, 2014 Seriously, I don't know about other places, but in Manitoba photo ID costs $20....if you can't afford that once every 5 years.... Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 28, 2014 Report Posted March 28, 2014 The logic is quite simple, why else would the Conservatives be struggling so hard to ram it through to the point of misquoting Harry Neufeld, who has BTW stated he thinks it will benefit the Tories and lyeing in the house about voter info cards. It has to be embarrassing for them so they must really want it. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 28, 2014 Report Posted March 28, 2014 Also, an elections Canada report indicates that the Aboriginal vote favors the NDP, especially east of Alberta. And that in the last election higher voter turnout in the Native community would likely have reduced the Harpewr win to a minority. Quote
Topaz Posted March 28, 2014 Author Report Posted March 28, 2014 When it really comes down to FAIR election voting, every Canadians who wants to vote should be able to and the results is what the majority wants and that is fair election. We should take the partisan out of this and replace it with honesty and truth and since the Tories appear to be the ones not being fair, then any voter who believes in democracy should vote against them. I say the same thing if it were the NDP or the Liberals pulling this stunt. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Ah....but it does. According to many, the Conservatives are doing this to steal the next election. Does that mean that you are willing to dismiss that part of the argument? And I'm still waiting for On Guard's response...... That has nothing to do with the argument. The argument is that it's wrong to disenfranchise voters with voting restrictions to stop fraud that's not occurring. Who the disenfranchised voters elect has nothing to do with anything. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Damn right! You start trying to steal my vote from me I've got two words for you and they ain't "happy birthday". The Tories keep trying to erase the word "irregularities" from the EC reports and replace it with "frauds" and nobody's buying it. I happen to have a DL in my wallet but I have a good friend who does not, she never has. Is she Canadian, you bet. Would I vouch for her, you bet. I just can't envision this wave of fraudulent voters convening at the polling stations with all these fraudulent vouchers in tow. If there is any evidence of this, Polievre can't seem to find it, try as he might. Quote
cybercoma Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Seriously, I don't know about other places, but in Manitoba photo ID costs $20....if you can't afford that once every 5 years.... What if every election people had to pay $20 at the polls to cast a ballot? Would you support that? Quote
Bryan Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 What if every election people had to pay $20 at the polls to cast a ballot? Would you support that? No one is asking for that. All they want is for you to prove that you are who you say you are. If you can't be bothered to do that, you're the one who decided that democracy is not that important to you. Quote
Smallc Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 What if every election people had to pay $20 at the polls to cast a ballot? Would you support that? What if I told you I was actually a dinosaur? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 And why is having someone vouch for you any less proof than a hydro bill? Quote
Smallc Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Because people can lie. Hydro bills generally can't. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 If only they had some proof that any of this fraud occured. Quote
Bryan Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Even a Hydro Bill should not be enough. Anyone can walk down the street and grab someone else's mail. It's also a lot easier to print out a fake one than most methods of official ID. It would actually be really easy to print out a stack of fake ones and just parade the same group of people from poll to poll. It doesn't even matter if no one has ever done that, it's the possibility that someone could that needs to be closed off. Quote
Bryan Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 If only they had some proof that any of this fraud occured. Elections Canada does not record it when people report it, that's the problem. A big part of why this bill is necessary, is because the govt has been telling EC to actually log complaints for a long time and they won't do it. As a scrutineer at the polls, I have personally witnessed, reported, and even intervened in several cases of voting irregularities, and Elections Canada will not even TAKE the complaint. Now it's going to be out of their hands. The loopholes are getting closed, the reporting mechanism are being established, and Elections Canada is getting much needed oversight. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Yeah but the unfair elections act doesn't seek to close that off. Utility bills are still acceptable. As you point out I could go through the neighbours garbage and probably find one. I'm thinking it might be a bit harder to convince someone to vouch for me who didn't know me. Once again, all we get from Polievre are misquotes and bogeymen. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 If they don't report it then what is this 50,000 odd number of irregularities that Poliever keeps blathering on about? Once again, his problem is there is no proof the irregularities amounted in any way to fraud. Quote
Bryan Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 If they don't report it then what is this 50,000 odd number of irregularities that Poliever keeps blathering on about? Once again, his problem is there is no proof the irregularities amounted in any way to fraud. People volunteering at the polls have reported irregularities. Just because EC doesn't keep track of them doesn't mean the volunteers don't. The party still keeps track. CPC makes sure they have members of their EDA's present at the polls (I do it every election). Other parties don't do it nearly as much. Last election, I was the only scrutineer at the poll I observed -- even during the actual count. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Well, my suspicions are they tried to fix the election last time with robocalls and they are trying to wash the blood off their hands with this act and at the same time attempting to tip the scales unfairly again. I don't think Canadians will be duped again. Trudeau just needs to get off his ass and roll out his policy and he's in. Quote
Bryan Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Well, my suspicions are they tried to fix the election last time with robocalls and they are trying to wash the blood off their hands with this act and at the same time attempting to tip the scales unfairly again. Funny you should mention that. Misleading robocalls trying to circumvent Conservative voters are a big part of those undocumented irregularities. Many CPC candidates were lodging complaints to EC long before it became a meme for the MSM. When the CPC were complaining, they didn't wanted to hear it. But when someone from the left complains? OK, now well talk about it. That kind of partisan bullshit within a supposedly neutral agency has to stop. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Robocalls targeted non CPC voters. Quote
Bryan Posted March 29, 2014 Report Posted March 29, 2014 Robocalls targeted non CPC voters. That's the narrative the media tried to portray. Quote
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