Why Christie will never be President but Harper will get re-elected

[August1991]

Tying up traffic for political payback, causing all kinds of problems to all sorts of people, is the same as shutting down a government park or White House tour because the government was shut down? I guess if you're a committed Republican there is a similarity. To the rest of the world, it's no comparison.

Taking money out of people's pockets, even 30 cents from each Canadian, to pay off Maher Arar so that he's no longer in the news - is that different? How about the "bribes" to Canada's dairy industry so that they won't complain about a European free trade agreement?

And Bubbler, have you noticed that no one talks about softwood lumber anymore? Why aren't these softwood lumber guys in the news?

-----

Politicians such as Stephen Harper and Barack Obama live in a world of expediency. They do deals with other people's money. Even Winston Churchill, Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan, Pierre Trudeau, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler lived in such a world.

"Democracy" at least adds the random chance of an LIV election to the mix. Is it any wonder that politicians in democracies typically choose one of two routes: put people to sleep or gin them up.

And like Churchill, I prefer the LIV variant. It may be apocryphal but: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." [/size] Well, not. Consider the alternative.

Edited January 18, 2014 by August1991

[On Guard for Thee]

 

I agree that closing a lane for political purposes is inappropriate behaviour. Those responsible have been and will be held responsible.

 

And what if it turns out that Christie is responsible?

[On Guard for Thee]

 

  

And what if it turns out that Christie is responsible?

 

Oh I almost forgot, Shady has some inside information that would preclude that.

[BubberMiley]

Taking money out of people's pockets, even 30 cents from each Canadian, to pay off Maher Arar so that he's no longer in the news - is that different? How about the "bribes" to Canada's dairy industry so that they won't complain about a European free trade agreement

What is it with conservatives that whenever one of their own does wrong, they provide a long list of wrongdoing by everyone left of them from the past 50 years?

And still they can't even come up with equivalent examples. Rob Ford smoked crack and lied about it and met with criminals and got people fired for mentioning it? I'll raise you a Justin Trudeau smoked weed and readily admitted to it!

[Bonam]

Forgive us, but are we the only ones who think this is absurd? Maybe not in the abstract. But in comparison to the stunts the Obama administration pulled during the budget fight. That was when it didn’t get its way from the Republicans on Capitol Hill. It closed national parks and penny ante historical sites, it ended White House tours. It imposed all kinds of un-necessary inconveniences for the sole purpose of political payback.

Huh? You shut down the government and of course government services like parks, historical sites, and white house tours will be closed. Do people not realize that there is a connection between government shutdown and government services shutdown? Sigh.

[GostHacked]

Are these players so incompetent that they don't know how to delete messages?

Is this player so naive to think that the delete key works?

Most of them are naive that they have no idea that the message does not really get deleted. Deleted off their mailbox maybe but not off the server. Unless you have access to the mail server as an administrator.

Edited January 14, 2014 by GostHacked

[jbg]

You need to use smiley faces to convey sarcasm over the Internet. But if you really wanted to convince people you aren't really a Republican, you would at least have to explain how Republicans shutting down the government is Obama's fault, and how stopping White House tours is equivalent to tying up ambulance traffic.

I am not being sarcastic.

I am not sure that Christie knew about or encouraged the dangerous and foolish lane play. I do have to criticize his continued campaigning at all with the insurmountable lead he already had. Some things are just _______ stupid.

[TimG]

You shut down the government and of course government services like parks, historical sites, and white house tours will be closed. Do people not realize that there is a connection between government shutdown and government services shutdown?

Many of the sites are public areas that did not require government personnel. In some other cases the personnel at the site were private contractors funded by entrance fees. Obama specifically closed these sites even though it probably cost more to barricade them than it would have cost if they were left unattended. There are court cases where the government is being sued by the private operators for the completely unjustified closure of their private businesses. Edited January 15, 2014 by TimG

[On Guard for Thee]

 

Many of the sites are public areas that did not require government personnel. In some other cases the personnel at the site were private contractors funded by entrance fees. Obama specifically closed these sites even though it probably cost more to barricade them than it would have cost if they were left unattended. There are court cases where the government is being sued by the private operators for the completely unjustified closure of their private businesses.

 

And all brought on by the Republicans in Congress

[TimG]

And all brought on by the Republicans in Congress

Nope. The private business closures were by executive order.

[On Guard for Thee]

 

Nope. The private business closures were by executive order.

 

Because the congress hijacked the government by voting against the debt level increase. How many times have they done that so far?

[August1991]

May I please have thiscoming Fridays Lotto Max numbers ?

Thanks in advance Seer!

4275682 You saw it here first!

But you have to share. As Bob Rae and Jean Lavallée would say, we're all in this together: Solidarity forever...

Edited January 18, 2014 by August1991

[Rue]

I am with Shady and JBG on this one. Voters have very very short memories. Nixon is the classic example of that. he was written off after Kennedy.

Scandals? Voters expect dirt and nastiness. You are going to have to get far more on Mr. chunky I mean Christie. Unless you catch him wasting money or involved in kick backs this one will be forgotten within months let alone years.

Then again there is time for a sex scandal. No not in his case. Maybe a food scandal.

By the time the Republican nominations come around there will be candidates no one has even thought of. My prediction ont he Republican side is Jeb Bush will for sure run. Is Colin Powell one? Would the US not vote 2 black Prezs one after the other if he ran? Is he too old?

Those 2 I would watch. I think both could stir a lot of interest. On the Dem side Clinton is all but actually running and I think she will alienate the soft center that vote dem or repub depending on the leader. Colin Powell would do very well against her. Jeb Bush is far from a dynamic speaker but he has that Bush dynasty thing and Haliburton behind him.

Christie I think became popular because of the publicity from the storm but that doesn't count for much outside Jersey and New York. Mid Westerners, and other states with their own disasters don't place as much emphasis on that as the Eastern sea board press does.

Christie would be the fattest contestant since Taft.

Its interesting put if you look at the Presidents very few are fat. Seriously, go down the list. Some speculate fat does not come across well as a politician.

Presidents of the US usually are in good physical shape and not fat Teddy Roosevelt, Wilson, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Carter the Bushes, Reagan, Clinton, Bam Bam, all physically far from fatties.LBJ is the closet fatty in all of the list and he was not that fat.

Seriously, if Christie runs he has to go on a serious diet. I am sure he has been told that by his handlers.

As for Hilary Clinton's hips, I pass.

[BubberMiley]

It's funny how the Republicans on this board are quick to say the voters will forget when their guys are caught being corrupt, but still go on about adscam 10 years later.

[On Guard for Thee]

It's funny how the Republicans on this board are quick to say the voters will forget when their guys are caught being corrupt, but still go on about adscam 10 years later.

How about this scenario: Hillary and Collin on the same ticket? American's have shown progress by electing the first black president so why not stretch that some more to a woman pres., with a black backstop? Both very smart people and in any case God help us all if the T Party gets power!

[August1991]

I am with Shady and JBG on this one. Voters have very very short memories. Nixon is the classic example of that. he was written off after Kennedy....

Nixon? Nixon would never have done as Christie or Paul Martin did: commit suicide. Nixon's 1962 speech was nothing like Christie's admission.

Nixon -like Harper and Mackenzie King- was a survivor, a player.

Edited January 24, 2014 by August1991

[Rue]

Interesting take August. Its true what you say.Nixon never ever admitted in public he ever did anything wrong whereas Christie has but you consider that career suicide? Interestng take. I am not sure Nixon's denials are what saved his career. Sometimes August I am not sure if we the public are now ever convinced as to what a politician says about pretty much anything. I wonder do their apologies or denials convince us or is it not what they say but what they do.

I will tell you why I say that keeping in mind you bet you can make a terrific argument Nixon never apologized and maybe that influenced people.

You see the way Rib Ford continually apologized? No one took that seriously. Its what he does not what he says. When Clinton apologized was it his apology that placed pressure on the Congress not to impeach him or were his words irrelevant because the fact is no one really gave a damn who he was tinkling with.

I am just not sure. I think since Watergate, we have all tuned out to politicians. I think Watergate had the effect of once and for all popping any bubble of illusion any of us had about politicians-it was the final straw so to speak and since Nixon and Watergate, we start off thinking all politicians are liars, the only question is how much will they lie. I think it served to take away any remaning innocence any of us had towards idealism and politics. Well at least our generation August. I am not sure about the ones after us and what they think or if they even think, lol.

So for example Stephen Harper. he came to power claiming to fight corruption and everything Chretien did and now he has done the exact same things. No one is mad at him for that and calls him a liar for that. Its as if we all know that politicians lie to get elected and it sonly a matter of time until they will be corrupted by the system. Sure people get upset about the Senate but in the whole scheme of things, the corrupt Senators are nothing compared to the networks of corruption of Harper,Chretien and Mulroney and patronage and I suppose before them Trudeau. Its as if we settle for our politicians accepting the fact they are all liars and prop themselves with patronage networks and that is ok because they all do it.

In that sense if Harper,Mulroney, Chretien all do the exact same patronage thing we accept it. Its only when Mulroney took a paper bag people really really turned on him. Sure people like me criticize Harper, Chretiens, Mulroney for their patronage networks but its as if I have resigned myself to the fact politics in Canada will never operate without patronage networks. I have been lulled into a sense of complacency about it. You?

I think with Rob Ford what disturbs me is just how many people see nothing wrong with him being a public drunk, someone who repeatedly lies, has admitted to driving drunk, and they are willing to accept that because they think he has saved tax payers money.

Its not about networks of power to prop up someone-its in his case illegal and dangerous behaviour and even that doesn't phase some people anymore. Imagine if he had been doing that even 10 years ago. Hey I remember when Tomas Eagleton was forced to drop out of being a Vice Presidential candidate because he had depressive illness in his past or the other senator from Colorado, I forget his name remember how he had to drop out for having a picture of himself with some young girl on a boat. Not too long later there is Clinton with his incident and did anyone really care except the politicians trying to get him out using that stain on Monca's dress?

I think in Christie's case its the same thing. If he has not taken any money people will say yah but we expect politicians to be sob's and play dirty-its not like he was having sex with a kid or taking bribes or doing crack in some brothel.

I think a lot of people will say, hey I like Christie because he's a tough guy.

Now will they be influenced by his apology? I am not sure. Will it make him seem soft? I think Jersey citizens have been exposed to a lot of corrupt politicians and think they all lie and sort of measure the impact of the lie and if they don't see any money stolen out of their pockets say-hey all is fair in politics, its a blood sport.

So for me I don't think he's committed hari kari just added another fart to the smell so to speak.

August its interesting because Nixon right down to the final moments never admitted a mistake.

It was only years later in that famous David Frost interview he was candid and even then he never stated what he did was illegal.

I think no amount of apology would have helped him and his being contrite did not keep him in office-I think what kept him in office is how slow the legal system must be to assure no rights are unfairly violated when investigating and then impeaching someone.

But its a great point.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Rue