dre Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 What about the comforting function and structure (link) of religion? Thats fine I guess. Children find it comforting to know Santa will bring presents at Christmas time if they are good too. The problem is when you actually THINK about stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yes, I can. People organized themselves into groups even in ancient times. Yes, I suppose that there was organized hunting... Anyways, it is hard enough to define "religion" let alone "organized religion"... Where in your wiki article does it say what you claim it says? The mere existence of "the anthropology of religion" supports my claim that religious beliefs existed in pre-history. And what claim did I make? Good question. What are you trying to say? When do you think that religion emerged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Organized religion? Not likely.... Supernatural superstitions? Possibly... I'm not being rhetorical; what's the difference? Edited January 7, 2014 by cybercoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 7, 2014 Report Share Posted January 7, 2014 What's the point of this discussion anyway? So what if there was religious belief since pre-history? We had all kinds of crazy beliefs throughout history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm not being rhetorical; what's the difference? Good question. The definition of what a religion would have been for ancient people isn't as simple as it sounds. Would believing thunder and lightening was produced by giants fighting in the clouds be a religion? Or a superstition? I think there can be some distinctions made, although there would be a lot of grey area. What's the point of this discussion anyway? So what if there was religious belief since pre-history? We had all kinds of crazy beliefs throughout history. All I was doing was refuting the claim that ancient burial sites automatically meant that cave dwellers 25,000 years ago were "religious", however you define religious. It is an interesting topic though... The mere existence of "the anthropology of religion" supports my claim that religious beliefs existed in pre-history. No, it merely shows that some (many? all?) anthropologists are speculating on the issue. Even the existence of the "venus carvings" seems to me to be very speculative as to what the carving actually meant to the people who carved it thousands of years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted January 8, 2014 Report Share Posted January 8, 2014 I guess what I'm asking is why are we debating whether or not religion existed since pre-history? What conclusion is this the premises for? It seems silly to argue whether this was the case or not (it's impossible to argue that it was not the case anyway). There's all kind of evidence for prehistorical superstitions, which could amount to religious beliefs (depending on how you define religion). I'm just not sure what the point is of debating whether or not it's true. I assume you guys are trying to support some broader point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carepov Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 The original (broader) point was: My personal opinion: religion will never go away (entirely) unless we become omniscient. Abrahamic and Eastern religions are just the modern counterparts of a system of belief that has existed within us for 25,000 years. They'll just be replaced with something else unless knowledge can unequivocally answer the metaphysical questions that have persisted since we gained consciousness. Sic semper erat, et sic semper erit Thus has it always been, and thus shall it ever be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 I guess what I'm asking is why are we debating whether or not religion existed since pre-history? What conclusion is this the premises for? It seems silly to argue whether this was the case or not (it's impossible to argue that it was not the case anyway). There's all kind of evidence for prehistorical superstitions, which could amount to religious beliefs (depending on how you define religion). I'm just not sure what the point is of debating whether or not it's true. I assume you guys are trying to support some broader point. I reckon that one of conditions of sentience is the ability to wonder about the meaning of life, about the origins of our environment, and all the other deep questions that have vexed us for... ever. Isn't it a bit of modern arrogance to think that early man did not have at least some wonder about this? And if they asked the questions, they no doubt came up with some answers that worked for them. Are those answers religion or superstition? Is there any difference between the two? Are our beliefs in a Great Father in the Sky or reinacarnation or whatever any more valid than whatever prehistoric man came up with to explain his harsh, short life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted January 9, 2014 Report Share Posted January 9, 2014 Sorry if I offended any creationists here by sugesting that prehistoric man actually existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Are those answers religion or superstition? Is there any difference between the two? Religion is a living belief system. Superstition is an out of context left-over component of a dead belief system. Examples of modern superstitions are: - bad luck from a black cat crossing the road - knocking on wood to avoid tempting fate These actions originate from religious beliefs/actions/practices now largely extinct, but the superstitions remain. A supernatural belief part of a doctrinal/mythological context that exists contemporaneously with the belief is a religious belief. A supernatural belief whose doctrinal/mythological origin is largely forgotten or unimportant is a superstitious belief. Religious beliefs are no more inherently valid or respectable than superstitious beliefs, but they tend to garner a greater air of importance as they are part of a prevalent doctrinal system or institution, rather than being disjointed leftovers. Hence why many religious believers scoff at Western paganism as "mere superstition"... Western pagan religions are largely dead, and the random left-over chunks that average people tend to know about (i.e. Zeus and his lightning bolts, Odin and his one eye, etc) are out of context, the societal prevalence of these beliefs that lent them importance no longer there to support them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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