Great Firewall of Britain

[Bonam]

A short time ago, we had a thread here about the UK censoring the internet when it comes to porn:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/22913-london-calling-for-porn-clampdown/

Many here supported the idea, even those that have otherwise been critical of censorship and government surveillance, because they reflexively don't like porn. I and a few others, however, warned that once they clamped down on one type of information on the internet, they would very quickly proceed to others. Even I, however, could not have predicted how quickly it would come:

http://gigaom.com/2013/11/28/the-uk-government-wants-to-block-extremist-content-but-who-decides-what-that-is/

Anything that the government thinks is "extremist" will be blocked. More poorly defined censorship that can be interpreted by a bureaucrat to censor anything they want, more government meddling in the flow of information, deciding what its citizens can and cannot know, can and cannot view, can and cannot think. Even as Western countries call on places like China to increase civil liberties, they eradicate these same liberties themselves as quickly as they can manage.

When is enough, enough? When will people stop supporting the government in its quest to become big brother?

Edited November 29, 2013 by Bonam

[bleeding heart]

And the acquiescence continues apace, it seems.

But it's not as if a person can reasonably say, "Well, if you want to be a quisling for Power, go right ahead."

Because it also affects those who decidedly do not have the commissar-gene.

Edited November 29, 2013 by bleeding heart

[GostHacked]

Complacency. Refusal to see reality. Most have a high tolerance for this kind of crap. My tolerance has run out.

[Guest Derek L]

Complacency. Refusal to see reality. Most have a high tolerance for this kind of crap. My tolerance has run out.

I don't think they care....

[GostHacked]

I don't think they care....

Most don't care. Most have no idea that it is happening. And the government loves those types of people.

Edited November 30, 2013 by GostHacked

[The_Squid]

The two things are not the same. Porn is not being banned. It would still all be available. It is hyperbole and/or dishonest to suggest otherwise.

[Bonam]

The two things are not the same. Porn is not being banned. It would still all be available. It is hyperbole and/or dishonest to suggest otherwise.

No, they are not the same. They are just very similar, part of the same belief on the part of government, and the same acquiescence on the part of the population, that government should control, monitor, and censor what information people can access. Some information they may ban entirely, some other information they may simply make it harder or more troublesome for people to access, but it's all part of the same mentality, the same cancer eating away at our societies. Each step along this path brings us closer and closer to tyranny.

[dre]

Our own crappy government is embarking on a second attempt to give themselves new powers over the internet as well... first one trying to use child porn as a fake excuse failed, so they are trying again, this time around "bullying".

[GostHacked]

Our own crappy government is embarking on a second attempt to give themselves new powers over the internet as well... first one trying to use child porn as a fake excuse failed, so they are trying again, this time around "bullying".

Methinks people are on to their plans. When that fails we will get an excuse of terrorism or some other bullcrap reason.

[Bonam]

Our own crappy government is embarking on a second attempt to give themselves new powers over the internet as well...

It sucks that literally all parties in almost every Western country are uniformly supportive of increased surveillance, increased censorship, and reduced civil liberties. The democratic model of government is breaking down, with the vast majority of so-called representatives no longer representing anything close to what their supposed constituents actually want, not only on this issue but on many others. Increasingly, the people hate and deride their politicians, and the politicians repress the people. There is a complete lack of respect in either direction. The growing disconnect between the governed and their governments is characteristic of stagnant forms of government that have fallen throughout history.

[bleeding heart]

It sucks that literally all parties in almost every Western country are uniformly supportive of increased surveillance, increased censorship, and reduced civil liberties. The democratic model of government is breaking down, with the vast majority of so-called representatives no longer representing anything close to what their supposed constituents actually want, not only on this issue but on many others. Increasingly, the people hate and deride their politicians, and the politicians repress the people. There is a complete lack of respect in either direction. The growing disconnect between the governed and their governments is characteristic of stagnant forms of government that have fallen throughout history.

I agree with you. I would posit however that there is no straight line, and authoritarianism in democratic societies has increased and decreased continually since inception.

Of course, the decreases tend to be the result of popular will, even popular struggle...not least by citizens such as yourself who are more than willing to point it out.

[GostHacked]

I agree with you. I would posit however that there is no straight line, and authoritarianism in democratic societies has increased and decreased continually since inception.

Of course, the decreases tend to be the result of popular will, even popular struggle...not least by citizens such as yourself who are more than willing to point it out.

It's getting hard to ignore. Even the most unaware are starting to see what is going on.

[eyeball]

And yet, even the most aware of us still cannot see what is happening on the other side of the Telescreens. I'll be a little bemused if the next swing of the revolutionary pendulum doesn't result in some sort of souveillance society. I suppose one could argue now that we do live in such a state given the media's role but not really since it too is on the outside of power's domain trying to piece together what's really happening one leak, pronouncement, FOI request or whistle-blower at a time.

In Stephen Baxter Arthur C Clarke's sci-fi The Light of Other Days wormhole technology and a desk top time-viewer allows people to look at any time and place they wish. The effect on the relationship between governments and the governed is profound.

That's what we need, something profound.

[dre]

I agree with you. I would posit however that there is no straight line, and authoritarianism in democratic societies has increased and decreased continually since inception.

Of course, the decreases tend to be the result of popular will, even popular struggle...not least by citizens such as yourself who are more than willing to point it out.

Hmmmm. Can you think of a democracy where authoritarianism significantly decreased without some sort of major event? Seems to me like it gradually increases... until some kind of major reset.

I look at it kind of like the windows operating system. Its pretty stable, but it leaks memory gradually, until eventually you need to completely reboot the thing, or even reformat the hard drive and reinstall the OS. Based on this analogy a "reboot" might be akin to ending the English aristrocracy through property taxation or removing the veto from the house of lords... Or breaking up the robber barons or the railroad tycoons. A full reformat would be more like the french or russian revolutions.

I dont really see any way in the context of our current political system, where the government is going to give up a bunch of power. The only real viable choices in western democracies are the authoritarian left and the authoriitiarian right, and they are basically partners serving the same bunch of people. Parties that really represent any real clawback of government authority are institutionally marginalized.