Toronto Firefighters fired -- for tweets

[Black Dog]

Sure. And how fishermen would there be in Canada if only the most politically correct were allowed to do the work?

Are fishermen public employees?

Attempting to hold people to standards of behavior which are well above what is standard in that segment of society is stupid.

or maybe it's a way of showing we expect better.

Most every guy I know says outrageous things from time to time, and that includes racist, sexist, and homophobic stuff. Almost none of it is serious, nor meant to be taken seriously. The problem is the politically correct are way out of touch with ordinary people.

Can't joke about fags and niggers, can't hit my wife anymore, man political correctness is sucking the life out of us!

The problem is assholes who feel they are entitled to make ignorant "jokes" (because even jokes perpetuate racism etc) and get away with it because we're supposed to think they are too dumb to know better, I suppose.

Get yourself an anatomy textbook.

Why would an anatomy text book have anything to say about the actual performance of female firefighters? That was the claim you made: women firefighters are inferior to their male counterparts. So do you have proof or not?

[Black Dog]

Are there social consequences for being stupid chicks? Or, are the standards for being a stupid chick different to those for stupid bros?

Probably. Not sure what it has to do with the bros in question.

[Guest American Woman]

My sister is a firefighter. She took the same tests as the men.

Yes, the tests which were watered down so she could pass them.

How can "watered down" = "the same?" Edited September 18, 2013 by American Woman

[Boges]

Are there social consequences for being stupid chicks? Or, are the standards for being a stupid chick different to those for stupid bros?

Yeah. See all the girls that ruin their lives for willingly posting sexual images in the public forum.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Boges

[Guest American Woman]

Caitlin Davis, an 18-year-old cheerleader with the New England Patriots, was fired over photos she posted to Facebook.

The pictures showed Davis and an unidentified friend leaning over a passed-out boy whose entire face and body was covered in distasteful graffiti. "Penis," (accompanied by said phallic symbols) 'I'm a Jew' and a couple swastikas are only some of the things drawn all over the unfortunate unconscious friend.

And:

A Georgia high school teacher claims she was forced to resign after her principal "questioned her about about her Facebook page, which included photos of her holding wine and beer and an expletive," CBSAtlanta reports.

So women are held accountable for what they post, too.

Edited September 18, 2013 by American Woman

[Boges]

Yep. One example:

Caitlin Davis, an 18-year-old cheerleader with the New England Patriots, was fired over photos she posted to Facebook.

Yeah but the New England Patriots are run by a bunch of Politically Correct Bureaucrats. :-D

[Black Dog]

Yeah but the New England Patriots are run by a bunch of Politically Correct Bureaucrats. :-D

It's just a few swastikas! Girls will be girls!

[g_bambino]

Yeah see all the girls that ruin their lives for willingly posting sexual images in the public forum.

Some do. But, I was meaning acts more comparable to those of these two firefighters, who Black Dog said were "stupid bros" who should have expected "social consequences" for their actions.

[g_bambino]

So women are held accountable for what they post, too.

Well, fair enough. But, what reaction--social or otherwise--would we expect to a female city employee's tweets of TV show lines that are derogatory towards men or asking if it were okay to slap a man with an annoying habit? The answer to that may shed light on why these men were fired.

[Guest American Woman]

Some do. But, I was meaning acts more comparable to those of these two firefighters, who Black Dog said were "stupid bros" who should have expected "social consequences" for their actions.

I gave a couple of examples of women being fired for saying and doing stupid things.

[guyser]

The argument that boys will be boys is a horrible argument, not to mention not posessing any merit.

Boys talking to boys and being crude or what have you is fine, when done in a private fashion. Once you go public with it, as these idiots did, then all bets are off.

Add in the fact that at least 1 id'd himself as a firefighter and the results are predictable.

Had any of them used the 'slap the head to re-arrange the brain' in a firehall when women were around could very well wind up in from of HR for a chat .

I am still of the opinion that a suspension is a better choice, however we may have more beneath the surface that dictated the firing.

Or...

Maybe the Chief knew by firing them he was over the line and knew the Union would rep these guys and have them back on the job soon enough. Either way, the Chief looks like a hard nosed boss to his bosses.

The old front page news followed days later with a subsequent apology printed on page 28.

No one recalls the apology.

[Argus]

No, there are standard tests for the men; they could not have been rewritten and equipment and all other sundry details reworked and rearranged just to suit her decision announced at the start of the testing days. There were separate tests for the female candidates and those went ahead at another time, without my sister and one other woman taking part.

[ed.: c/e]

The standard tests have been watered down over the years to allow weaker people to pass them. This is pretty well known. The departments never made it a secret.

[Boges]

Well, fair enough. But, what reaction--social or otherwise--would we expect to a female city employee's tweets of TV show lines that are derogatory towards men or asking if it were okay to slap a man with an annoying habit? The answer to that may shed light on why these men were fired.

Well like it or not, there is a double standard.

You can't really accuse a woman of being sexist towards men. It's very difficult for a man to get authorities to step in when they feel they're being abused physically or mentally by another woman.

We as men are just meant to suck it up.

[The_Squid]

I have no problem with these idiots being fired... might be a bit heavy handed, but not if they have had prior incidents.

The city is actively trying to change the sexist culture in their fire department. People like these guys are actively standing in the way. They deserve to be let go...

[g_bambino]

The standard tests have been watered down over the years to allow weaker people to pass them...

Maybe so. But there were still separate tests for men and women, those for the former being harder than the latter.

[ed.: c/e]

Edited September 18, 2013 by g_bambino

[Argus]

How can "watered down" = "the same?"

Everyone has to lift a 180lb dead weight and carry it down several flights of stairs.

Same requirement for everyone.

But women couldn't pass it.

So they changed it. Now you just drag the dummy across the floor. Now all male applicants and at least a lot of the women applicants can pass it.

It's the same 'standard' but it's been watered down specifically to allow women to pass it. If women women couldn't pass this test it would be lowered again until they could.

[Black Dog]

Everyone has to lift a 180lb dead weight and carry it down several flights of stairs.

Same requirement for everyone.

But women couldn't pass it.

So they changed it. Now you just drag the dummy across the floor. Now all male applicants and at least a lot of the women applicants can pass it.

It's the same 'standard' but it's been watered down specifically to allow women to pass it. If women women couldn't pass this test it would be lowered again until they could.

Cite?

[Argus]

Maybe so. But there were still separate tests for men and women, those for the former being harder than the latter.

[ed.: c/e]

I don't know how your department does it. The way it works here (as I understand it) they all take the same test, however, the top ranking females are selected even if they're far down the list, so long as they pass the basic test.

But if your city does it the way you say, requiring greater strength from the men, that's pretty obvious acknowledgement of what I've been saying.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Argus

[Black Dog]

Though i gotta say, given the work firefighters do these days, a proper test would have to include "cook a meal for 12" and "wash a firetruck, then wash it again" or perhaps "watch Breaking Bad without spoiling it for the next shift."

[Argus]

Are fishermen public employees?

So it's okay if fishermen are not to be held to the same standards as people who work for various government agencies, have I got that right? Why? because they couldn't possibly meet that standard, being generally ignorant and uncouth, or becuase you feel it's okay to hold public employees to a higher standard than private employees?

[Boges]

Though i gotta say, given the work firefighters do these days, a proper test would have to include "cook a meal for 12" and "wash a firetruck, then wash it again" or perhaps "watch Breaking Bad without spoiling it for the next shift."

What getting a cat out of a tree and beating Paramedics to a medical call didn't cross your mind?

Edited September 18, 2013 by Boges

[Black Dog]

So it's okay if fishermen are not to be held to the same standards as people who work for various government agencies, have I got that right? Why?

because they couldn't possibly meet that standard, being generally ignorant and uncouth,or becuase you feel it's okay to hold public employees to a higher standard than private employees?

As a member of the public I hold public employees to a high standard. I would expect private organizations to do the same, but don't have a say if they do or not. But I think successful organizations in the private sphere would be just as vigilant for behaviours that would damage their good name/brand. For example.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Black Dog

[Black Dog]

What getting a cat out of a tree and beating Paramedics to a medical call didn't cross your mind?

It was by no means an exhaustive list.

[g_bambino]

I don't know how your department does it.

It's Toronto Fire Services.

But if your city does it the way you say, requiring greater strength from the men, that's pretty obvious acknowledgement of what I've been saying.

Except, my sister rather proves you wrong. She had enough upper body strength and size to pass the same tests to become a firefighter as the men took, men's upper body strength and size being the standard of qualification you chose. According to you, though, she shouldn't have got the job.

[ed.: +]

Edited September 18, 2013 by g_bambino

[Boges]

It's Toronto Fire Services.

Except, my sister rather proves you wrong. She had enough upper body strength and size to pass the same tests to become a firefighter as the men took, men's upper body strength and size being the standard of qualification you chose. According to you, though, she shouldn't have got the job.

[ed.: +]

Aren't Upper Body tests mostly based on body weight. For example benching your own weight, doing pull ups or push ups.

I'm sure lot's of strong men can't pass police or military testing cuz they can't do that many chin-ups.