TTC Police Shooting

[cybercoma]

This guy on the bus could have been the biggest scumbag in Toronto for all I know, but he's dead now so we don't have to worry about him. The bigger problem now is Judge Dredd, who's on extended vacation, out on the streets again issuing his own brand of justice.

[Guest Derek L]

I don't know. Presumably, neither do the cops. But he's down. Do you wait at least long enough to determine if he poses a threat or just keep on blasting away?

Once the decision to use lethal force has been made……..they’ll use said force until the aggressor is no longer threat.

[Guest Derek L]

If he attempts to leave the bus, you ressess his ability to cause harm and act appropriately. Presumably, a bullet wound is going to slow him down, unless he really in the reincarnation of Bruce Lee. Maybe you can use the taser at that point.

What you don't do is shoot him while he's down.

Why wouldn't you shoot him well he's down? If he's demonstrated a combative and threatening behaviour towards police and the public, enough so to justify the use of lethal force, for what reason would you stop until he’s no longer a threat?

[Guest Derek L]

Wow, Derek. It was close enough range to fear the knife-wielding guy waving his penis around, but it's not close range for a well-trained police officer firing a handgun. Ignorance you say?

Yeah, a knife wielding guy can cover the distance in several seconds.....

[ReeferMadness]

Once the decision to use lethal force has been made……..they’ll use said force until the aggressor is no longer threat.

Ross McLean said that each decision should be considered separately by SIU.

1. Should the shooting have started at all? (ie was there a sufficient attempt to defuse the situation without shooting)?
2. Once the first 3 shots were fired, was it necessary to keep keep shooting ?
3. Was it necessary to deploy the taser?

[Guest Derek L]

Here's what you sound like...

Knife at that distance = serious threat, but cop shooting at that distance can't even hit the side of a barn.

Can I get some mustard to go with this pretzel?

I never said the cop couldn't hit the side of a barn.......that's your projection.

[ReeferMadness]

Yeah, a knife wielding guy can cover the distance in several seconds.....

From a position of laying on his back?

[Guest Derek L]

After he's shot 3 times and lying on his back, you mean?

How do you know he was shot three times?

[Guest Derek L]

What if? Best to rush him on the bus and murder him, right? You know, just in case something that's not happening at all happens later.

When the first shots were fired, he was advancing towards the door/officers.......

[ReeferMadness]

I never said the cop couldn't hit the side of a barn.......that's your projection.

That's pretty much the essence of what AW was claiming. 25% of shots hit their targets (or something like that). Not very impressive if that's what happened here. 15 feet away, stationary target with nowhere to move.

[ReeferMadness]

When the first shots were fired, he was advancing towards the door/officers.......

And what about the last 6 shots, while he's lying on his back?

[Guest Derek L]

Ross McLean said that each decision should be considered separately by SIU.

1. Should the shooting have started at all? (ie was there a sufficient attempt to defuse the situation without shooting)?
2. Once the first 3 shots were fired, was it necessary to keep keep shooting ?
3. Was it necessary to deploy the taser?

So? Isn't that the purpose of the investigation?

[Guest Derek L]

From a position of laying on his back?

I dunno, how badly was he hurt?

[ReeferMadness]

So? Isn't that the purpose of the investigation?

In an ideal world, maybe. I have very little confidence that SIU will get to the heart of the matter.

[ReeferMadness]

I dunno, how badly was he hurt?

He's on his back, Derek. What do you think? To me that means he was shot. If he's shot at close range with a hollow point bullet, he's unlikely to be moving that quickly.

[Guest Derek L]

That's pretty much the essence of what AW was claiming. 25% of shots hit their targets (or something like that). Not very impressive if that's what happened here. 15 feet away, stationary target with nowhere to move.

That sounds about right, perhaps a higher percent, but none the less.........the officer was shooting at a moving target, inside a streetcar...at night

I don't know what you deem impressive......Bruce Wills? Arnie? Sly?

[Guest Derek L]

And what about the last 6 shots, while he's lying on his back?

What about them?

[Guest Derek L]

In an ideal world, maybe. I have very little confidence that SIU will get to the heart of the matter.

So you admit a bias against not only police, but the SIU also........ok.

[Guest Derek L]

He's on his back, Derek. What do you think? To me that means he was shot. If he's shot at close range with a hollow point bullet, he's unlikely to be moving that quickly.

But you, and me (presently) and the officer(s) at the time do not know the extent of his injuries……..As I said, he could have had a superficial wound from a ricochet, he could have been grazed by a bullet, he could have just ducked for cover……

[ReeferMadness]

So you admit a bias against not only police, but the SIU also........ok.

I admit that in almost every high profile case I'm aware of, the police have somehow gotten away with killing people, even when it's obvious to most observers that it wasn't necessary. Does that constitute a bias?

[ReeferMadness]

But you, and me (presently) and the officer(s) at the time do not know the extent of his injuries……..As I said, he could have had a superficial wound from a ricochet, he could have been grazed by a bullet, he could have just ducked for cover……

Ducked for cover??? If you were going to duck for cover, would you lie on your back with your legs exposed and twitching?

You're not really a cop at all. You're an SIU officer. I can tell by your sense of logic.

[Guest Derek L]

I admit that in almost every high profile case I'm aware of, the police have somehow gotten away with killing people, even when it's obvious to most observers that it wasn't necessary. Does that constitute a bias?

I suppose.....anecdotal...but still a bias.

[Guest Derek L]

Ducked for cover??? If you were going to duck for cover, would you lie on your back with your legs exposed and twitching?

You're not really a cop at all. You're an SIU officer. I can tell by your sense of logic.

I suppose rationality has left the young man’s mind once he pulled his dink/knife out earlier……none the less, he could have done a combination of the three examples I mentioned above.

[ReeferMadness]

I suppose rationality has left the young man’s mind once he pulled his dink/knife out earlier……none the less, he could have done a combination of the three examples I mentioned above.

I suppose he could have just sprouted wings and few away. It seems like not many people who've seen this have been entirely rational. Certainly not the one doing all of the shooting.

[Guest Derek L]

I suppose he could have just sprouted wings and few away. It seems like not many people who've seen this have been entirely rational. Certainly not the one doing all of the shooting.

I'm not grasping what you're putting down......care to clarify?