GostHacked Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 So that means they have a right to "defend" all of what's now Israel? They have a right to defend their land as Israel has a right to defend theirs. Not a hard concept to grasp. Quote
GostHacked Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 Who says that there is a G-d given right to be able to wage war successfully? I don't understand this question. Ask Canada how often they would have liked to stand up to the U.S.'s military might. Maybe some peoples are better off by going along to get along. That's not making much sense either. Is this and the god given right part of the same question? Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 And yes I would remove all Isreali settlements in all parts of the occupied territories. If the dice fall the other way, you're alright with Israel ethnically cleansing the West Bank of Arabs (etc), then? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 If the dice fall the other way, you're alright with Israel ethnically cleansing the West Bank of Arabs (etc), then? Nice. I see you are trying to use one of my arguments against me. Let's call it genocide, as that is what it is. No need to use politically correct fluff terms. Removing the settlements is not akin to 'ethic cleansing'. Good try. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 Nice. I see you are trying to use one of my arguments against me. Let's call it genocide, as that is what it is. No need to use politically correct fluff terms. Removing the settlements is not akin to 'ethic cleansing'. Good try. It most surely is ethnic cleansing to remove all the Jews from the West Bank. How is that stolen native land you're standing on today? A tad icy? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Bonam Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 Removing the settlements is not akin to 'ethic cleansing'. Good try. How is removing all of the people of a certain ethnicity/religion from a certain area NOT ethnic cleansing? That is precisely the definition of ethnic cleansing. Quote
GostHacked Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 (edited) It most surely is ethnic cleansing to remove all the Jews from the West Bank. I would be genocide to remove all Jews in Israel. It would not be ethnic cleansing to move the people living in the occupied territores back to Israel proper. I don't recognize Israel, but that does not mean I want to see genocide or 'ethnic cleansing' on any side. Edited January 6, 2014 by GostHacked Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 It would not be ethnic cleansing to move the people living in the occupied territores back to Israel proper. What about their children that were born in places like Hebron? Hmmmm? Not true Scotsmen? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 Yes...it's interesting...and GH isn't the only one with this thinking...that it's OK to start removing folks from their homes...in certain situations. If such a thing was tried in Canada...they'd be, naturally, up-in-arms. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 Yes...it's interesting...and GH isn't the only one with this thinking...that it's OK to start removing folks from their homes...in certain situations. If such a thing was tried in Canada...they'd be, naturally, up-in-arms. Which one of the territories is now completley free of settlements in which you keep throwing out? West Bank or Gaza? It can be done. It has been done. It can be done again. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 Which one of the territories is now completley free of settlements in which you keep throwing out? West Bank or Gaza? It can be done. It has been done. It can be done again. And you support it. But, if the Natives of Canada said: Get out, settler. You wouldn't be moving anytime soon. Yeah...the word is hypocrite, btw. Not to mention a fellow like you is quite scary if you gain any sort of power to act. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
bud Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 How is removing all of the people of a certain ethnicity/religion from a certain area NOT ethnic cleansing? That is precisely the definition of ethnic cleansing. can you zionist apologists get real for once? who are you trying to fool here? this is not some natural growth that has occurred. it was a government assisted, systematic and illegal program to implant jewish settments inside someone else's territory to annex their land. it's not like they have been living there for a long time, like, lets say, the palestinians who were ethnically cleansed from the land, which is now called israel. Quote http://whoprofits.org/
DogOnPorch Posted January 6, 2014 Report Posted January 6, 2014 can you zionist apologists get real for once? who are you trying to fool here? this is not some natural growth that has occurred. it was a government assisted, systematic and illegal program to implant jewish settments inside someone else's territory to annex their land. it's not like they have been living there for a long time, like, lets say, the palestinians who were ethnically cleansed from the land, which is now called israel. Another supporter of ethnic cleansing. A common trait among the anti-'Zionists'. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jbg Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 What possible good can it do to keep baiting people and trotting out old hatreds? I think you just like to wallow. How does that help with solutions TODAY? Isn't that what you're doing? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Bonam Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 can you zionist apologists get real for once? who are you trying to fool here? this is not some natural growth that has occurred. What does it matter how the growth occurred? The people in the settlements are just normal people like anyone else, trying to make a life for themselves. Maybe they followed government incentives, maybe they followed their religious faith, maybe they simply went where someone offered them a job. The settlements are certainly problematic for peace in the long run, and any possible two state solution will likely involve most settlements being dismantled, but to the people living there who will be forced out, whether it be by Israeli soldiers/police, or by the PA, it will most certainly be ethnic cleansing. Perhaps in some cases ethnic cleansing can be the lesser of two evils. But to pretend that no ethnic cleansing is involved, simply because you dislike the origin/ethnicity/religion/attitudes of the people being cleansed, is nothing but bigotry and hypocrisy. Quote
jacee Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 What does it matter how the growth occurred? The people in the settlements are just normal people like anyone else, trying to make a life for themselves. Maybe they followed government incentives, maybe they followed their religious faith, maybe they simply went where someone offered them a job. The settlements are certainly problematic for peace in the long run, and any possible two state solution will likely involve most settlements being dismantled, but to the people living there who will be forced out, whether it be by Israeli soldiers/police, or by the PA, it will most certainly be ethnic cleansing. Perhaps in some cases ethnic cleansing can be the lesser of two evils. But to pretend that no ethnic cleansing is involved, simply because you dislike the origin/ethnicity/religion/attitudes of the people being cleansed, is nothing but bigotry and hypocrisy. Do they not have the option of staying ? You'd think if they settled there, they'd realize they could be part of Palestine someday. Wouldn't they just make a choice to stay or go? Quote
bud Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 What does it matter how the growth occurred? The people in the settlements are just normal people like anyone else, trying to make a life for themselves. Maybe they followed government incentives, maybe they followed their religious faith, maybe they simply went where someone offered them a job. The settlements are certainly problematic for peace in the long run, and any possible two state solution will likely involve most settlements being dismantled, but to the people living there who will be forced out, whether it be by Israeli soldiers/police, or by the PA, it will most certainly be ethnic cleansing. Perhaps in some cases ethnic cleansing can be the lesser of two evils. But to pretend that no ethnic cleansing is involved, simply because you dislike the origin/ethnicity/religion/attitudes of the people being cleansed, is nothing but bigotry and hypocrisy. no bonam. it's not ethnic cleansing. ethnic cleansing has a meaning and the removal of the illegal jewish settlements, especially if it's done by the israeli government, does not fit the meaning which was set in: The Final Report of the Commission of Experts established pursuant to Security Council Resolution 780 defined ethnic cleansing as "a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas. source: http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/1994/674 Quote http://whoprofits.org/
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 Do they not have the option of staying ? You'd think if they settled there, they'd realize they could be part of Palestine someday. Wouldn't they just make a choice to stay or go? It's time you read the Quran. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Bonam Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 Do they not have the option of staying ? You'd think if they settled there, they'd realize they could be part of Palestine someday. Wouldn't they just make a choice to stay or go? Sure, if they are given the option of staying or leaving, and left to live in peace and with equal rights as citizens by the Palestinian government, that'd be acceptable I'm sure. You know, just like the millions of Arabs living in Israel. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 Sure, if they are given the option of staying or leaving, and left to live in peace and with equal rights as citizens by the Palestinian government, that'd be acceptable I'm sure. You know, just like the millions of Arabs living in Israel. Seeing that Abbas is a dyed-in-the-wool Holocaust denier and won't accept Jews even in Israel, this is very unlikely to be on the table without a pistol to someone's head. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 And you support it. Yes I support it. I support the move for Israel to abandon the settlements. But, if the Natives of Canada said: Get out, settler. You wouldn't be moving anytime soon. I am not a settler. My grandparents were. Although, we do need to revisit those native land claims and actually try and honour them. The Canadian government has done horrific things to native populations, and yes they as a whole deserve something back from all that. But these are different situations as you easily well know. The only difference here is that land was bought up to create Israel. That did not happen in North America. It was simply taken over and genocides of many native populations took place. Yeah...the word is hypocrite, btw. Not to mention a fellow like you is quite scary if you gain any sort of power to act. Oh my, Dog calling ME a hypocrite. Nice. You are the one correcting me all the time indicating Israel had removed the settlements in Gaza as a way to show commitment to a peace deal and a two state solution. Yet you advocate and applaude for more settlments in the West Bank. Hypocrite? I guess it takes one to know one. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Now, now...you REALLY don't want to be in the business of kicking folks out of their homes. As for you being born in Canada...I asked about children born in Hebron (etc). "Not true Scotsmen?" was the question. You seemed willing to boot the kids, as well...technically indigenous to the region. As for Jews buying land...they started doing that well before anyone created the rather flawed United Nations...broken UN, now. I've actually never advocated for settlers...go ahead look...just the irony of a non-native Canadian ragging on Israel for "stealing land" is too delicious NOT to point out. Plus, I really doubt you know how the WB ended-up as Israel's problem rather than Jordan's. Edited January 7, 2014 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 Now, now...you REALLY don't want to be in the business of kicking folks out of their homes. As for you being born in Canada...I asked about children born in Hebron (etc). "Not true Scotsmen?" was the question. You seemed willing to boot the kids, as well...technically indigenous to the region. As for Jews buying land...they started doing that well before anyone created the rather flawed United Nations...broken UN, now. But then you say this..... I've actually never advocated for settlers...go ahead look...just the irony of a non-native Canadian ragging on Israel for "stealing land" is too delicious NOT to point out. Plus, I really doubt you know how the WB ended-up as Israel's problem rather than Jordan's. What is really tasty is that you agree with my view on the settlements and yet call me a hypocrite. Yer done. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 But then you say this..... What is really tasty is that you agree with my view on the settlements and yet call me a hypocrite. Yer done. No...the corner you're painted into is YOUR desire to see ethnic cleansing in the WB...you said it... GH: It can be done. It has been done. It can be done again. ...yet as a non-Native Canadian, you're 'occupying' Native land which you 'stole' from them. That's what equals hypocrite. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
GostHacked Posted January 7, 2014 Report Posted January 7, 2014 No...the corner you're painted into is YOUR desire to see ethnic cleansing in the WB...you said it... You love to shove words into people faces. It's not ethnic cleansing. If that is the case, then the settlments are ethnically cleansing the occupied territories. Israel removed the settlements from Gaza, so will you say that Israel ethnically cleansed Jews from the Gaza strip? ...yet as a non-Native Canadian, you're 'occupying' Native land which you 'stole' from them. That's what equals hypocrite. So recently we see that Israel is expanding the settlements in the West Bank. It would be a good idea to at least STOP the expansion of the settlements. Care to talk to that at all? They can be removed, it has been done, and can be done again. Quote
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