the EU catches Israel off-guard regarding its illegal settlements

[GostHacked]

Pat's a buddy of mine. A good egg all around.

If he wants a lesson on satire and comedy, have him give me a call.

[DogOnPorch]

Pat used to do stand-up. That's quite a long time ago, now. He lived in BC working as a logger for some years before moving back to the UK. Now he needs 24/7 protection which he can not afford. I wonder from who??

[GostHacked]

Pat used to do stand-up. That's quite a long time ago, now. He lived in BC working as a logger for some years before moving back to the UK. Now he needs 24/7 protection which he can not afford. I wonder from who??

Can't be because he is purposefully obnoxious and trolling? Nah.

But getting back to my other question, why would they be illegal? I don't care to subject myself to Condell's rants.

[DogOnPorch]

Can't be because he is purposefully obnoxious and trolling? Nah.

But getting back to my other question, why would they be illegal? I don't care to subject myself to Condell's rants.

Your opinion only. Pat has a huge support base. Anyone who is against Andy Choudary and his band o' merry men gets my vote. You should be against his sort too...but, one never knows.

Anjem Choudary

As for illegal settlements...there are none. You only have a right to defend your land. This is proven every day except in the case of the so-called Palestinians. My case in point on this should be familiar to you by now: South Viet-Nam. When will it be coming back, again? What?? Never? Say it isn't so. That happened after the Six Day War and UN Resolution 242 (and the parallel Khartoum Resolution which you are, no-doubt, unfamiliar with).

One rule for Israelis...another rule for North Vietnamese and whomever. Plus, if you bother to read the Khartoum Resolution, the Arabs lay their actual intentions for all to see. A few players still go by this resolution. Fatah has never reneged.

[jacee]

Uhhhh...no. They say one thing to the West and you.

Uhhh ... yes they did.

GENERAL ASSEMBLY VOTES OVERWHELMINGLY TO ACCORD PALESTINE

NON-MEMBER OBSERVER STATE STATUS IN UNITED NATIONS

https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

Edited December 31, 2013 by jacee

[DogOnPorch]

Uhhh ... yes they did.

GENERAL ASSEMBLY VOTES OVERWHELMINGLY TO ACCORD PALESTINE

NON-MEMBER OBSERVER STATE STATUS IN UNITED NATIONS

https://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/ga11317.doc.htm

Israel wasn't involved in that wee end-run. So how valid is it? As well, I pointed out the UN's duplicity in regards to the Arab Israeli conflict (see Viet-Nam...go on...look). It jumped its own shark the day they put some of the worst human rights offenders in charge of human rights.

[GostHacked]

As for illegal settlements...there are none. You only have a right to defend your land.

Palestinians have a right to defend their land. I am glad you agree.

[jacee]

Israel wasn't involved in that wee end-run. So how valid is it?

Totally valid, as an "observer state".

If you keep chasing your own tail in circles, you will never move forward out of the 'blame' rut.

Do you have any intention at all of trying to move forward ... ever?

[DogOnPorch]

Palestinians have a right to defend their land. I am glad you agree.

If they only would stand by their wins and loses.

The suicide vest is not a defensive weapon. What Fatah and Hamas (et al) engage in is terrorism. This is where non-military assets like pregnant women are murdered in cold blood rather than openly engaging Israel's military. When one engages in partisan activity, one usually meets a partisan's demise. Don't you agree?

Here's an example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Hatuel_family

What did the leader of of Fatah's Islamic Jihad say about that attack? He said: killing that family as they did was permissible as they chose to live in a war zone. Seems they're well aware of the rules and the stakes involved. Why do you pretend otherwise?

[DogOnPorch]

Totally valid, as an "observer state".

If you keep chasing your own tail in circles, you will never move forward out of the 'blame' rut.

Do you have any intention at all of trying to move forward ... ever?

I'm not an Israeli. I'm Canadian. I have no need to move forward anymore than you need to move forward for stealing all that native land you're living on.

As for valid...the UN is dominated by a large voting block of Islamic sh!tholes and their erstwhile allies. They could get a resolution passed claiming the Moon is made of cheese. That Israel wasn't involved in the decision makes it invalid by default.

[GostHacked]

If they only would stand by their wins and loses.

The suicide vest is not a defensive weapon. What Fatah and Hamas (et al) engage in is terrorism. This is where non-military assets like pregnant women are murdered in cold blood rather than openly engaging Israel's military. When one engages in partisan activity, one usually meets a partisan's demise. Don't you agree?

How do you expect them to actually establish a uniformed military into to fight fair? It's not like Israel engages in am embargo on the occupied territories to prevent that kind of thing from happened. So blowing up pregnant women may actually be a viable option. We have the Israeli military protecting these illegal settlements on occupied territory land and you seem upset that some are defending their lands by attacking others.

What did the leader of of Fatah's Islamic Jihad say about that attack? He said: killing that family as they did was permissible as they chose to live in a war zone. Seems they're well aware of the rules and the stakes involved. Why do you pretend otherwise?

Living in the occupied territories in an illegal settlement is living in the war zone. An occupied war zone. You have no objections for Palestinians being taken out by the same methods that Palestinians use.

Do you need a hug? I promise I am not wearing a vest this time.

[DogOnPorch]

How do you expect them to actually establish a uniformed military into to fight fair? It's not like Israel engages in am embargo on the occupied territories to prevent that kind of thing from happened. So blowing up pregnant women may actually be a viable option. We have the Israeli military protecting these illegal settlements on occupied territory land and you seem upset that some are defending their lands by attacking others.

Living in the occupied territories in an illegal settlement is living in the war zone. An occupied war zone. You have no objections for Palestinians being taken out by the same methods that Palestinians use.

Do you need a hug? I promise I am not wearing a vest this time.

I expect nothing less than your continued support for Fatah's and Hamas's actions over that of Israel. You are a consistent fellow.

[GostHacked]

I expect nothing less than your continued support for Fatah's and Hamas's actions over that of Israel. You are a consistent fellow.

Now, the prize is for you to have if you can show where I support Fatah and or Hamas. Maybe better luck in 2014 Dog. Hopefully Santa brought you a bigger rod this year. Maybe it's the bait you are using.

[jacee]

I'm not an Israeli. I'm Canadian. I have no need to move forward

I get it. You have nothing invested at all so you'll just keep sniping and complaining no matter what.

That's not helpful at all.

anymore than you need to move forward for stealing all that native land you're living on.

We all are responsible for ensuring that our governments and corporations respect Aboriginal rights.

As for valid...the UN is dominated by a large voting block of Islamic sh!tholes and their erstwhile allies. They could get a resolution passed claiming the Moon is made of cheese. That Israel wasn't involved in the decision makes it invalid by default.

Israel got outvoted. It's valid.

I thought it was a brilliant move for Palestine to try to break the logjam that way.

Hopefully there are enough Israelis who also want to try to find a reasonable way forward.

[DogOnPorch]

I get it. You have nothing invested at all so you'll just keep sniping and complaining no matter what.

That's not helpful at all.

We all are responsible for ensuring that our governments and corporations respect Aboriginal rights.

Israel got outvoted. It's valid.

I thought it was a brilliant move for Palestine to try to break the logjam that way.

Hopefully there are enough Israelis who also want to try to find a reasonable way forward.

Enjoy your stolen Native land.

Israel wasn't involved in the decision to make Palestine an observer state. That Canada saw through the BS and voted against is commendable. Terrorism should not be rewarded.

[GostHacked]

Correct, terrorism should not be rewarded.

Israel was born out of terrorism. Unless they were defending their land when Israel came into existence.

Irgun anyone?

[DogOnPorch]

Irgun was formed as a direct result of the actions of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

Edited December 31, 2013 by DogOnPorch

[GostHacked]

Irgun was formed as a direct result of the actions of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

You mean the people that were there trying to defend their land?

[DogOnPorch]

You mean the people that were there trying to defend their land?

It wasn't their land. Starting with the 1858 Ottoman Land Code reform, Jews began buying-up land from the Sultan who needed money post Crimea War. The Arabs rarely bought the land as it meant paying taxes to the Sultan and serving in the Ottoman Army. A notable exception was the al-Husseini clan who bought land and restored the mosques on the Temple Mount which were in near ruin. The Mufti wanted the Jew's land as well as his own for his private Jew/Hashemite free state.

[jacee]

Israel wasn't involved in the decision to make Palestine an observer state.

Israel was involved in the UN discussion and vote.

I just don't see any value in your constant backward-looking totally non-constructive rants.

[DogOnPorch]

Israel was involved in the UN discussion and vote.

I just don't see any value in your constant backward-looking totally non-constructive rants.

And I see little value to your history free approach to the Arab-Israeli conflict. You just don't want to face the reality of backing a movement founded by an actual Nazi who hated Jews and Hashemites (that's Royal Jordanian types to you). I guess I'd have to lie to myself, as well.

Haj Amin al-Husseini, father of the Palestinian Cause, meets his mentor.

Hitler divulges the plans for the Final Solution and al-Husseini eagerly agrees to help.

(Dec. 1941)

[jacee]

And I see little value to your history free approach to the Arab-Israeli conflict. You just don't want to face the reality of backing a movement founded by an actual Nazi who hated Jews and Hashemites (that's Royal Jordanian types to you). I guess I'd have to ...

What possible good can it do to keep baiting people and trotting out old hatreds? I think you just like to wallow.

How does that help with solutions TODAY?

[Rue]

Jacee I am not sure to what you were referring to but let's clarify what Mr.Abbas said because you are misstating what he said.

Let's be crystal clear Mr. Abbas is on record not once, but many times stating he will NOT recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

In fact the opposite. He has made it clear he will never accept Israel as a Jewish state. He stated he will

recognize a second state provided it is disbanded as a Jewish state and ANYONE who claims to be a Palestinian as long as they are not a Jew, is allowed to enter the country and be given a piece of land to own.

In the Abbas plan, the current Israeli Jews just disappear and no longer exist.

Please read what he has stated. Mr. Abbas is an extremist. He wrote his thesis on how the holocaust did not exist.

I am not sure what world you live in but to state his demand for a Palestinian state means he will recognize Israel is absurd when

he is on record as stating the opposite and since I have provided numerous references and repeated it over and over what he has actually said, you can go find out for yourself.

As for my opinion, like many Zionists I think expanding settlements are an obstacle to peace and I think extremist Jewish settlers on the West Bank are problematic for peace solutions to evolve but I also think as long as a blatant anti-Semite and anti Zionist like

Abbas remains in power and is posed by some of you as a reasonable man interested in peace there will be no peace either.

Mr. Netanyahu is not operating in a vacuum. Much of what he says is bluff and pose in direct response to the person he deals with, Mr. Abbas.

Let's get it clear. As long as Hamas, Fatah Hawks, Intifadah, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda and over 300 other terror cells I have listed in the past on this forum continue to exist dedicated to wiping out Israel and killing anyone who supports them world wide, there will be no peace.

For peace to come about the IRA disbanded and turned in its arms. Hezbollah lied. They said they would disarm the moment Israel left Lebanon. They lied, They openly stated they lied and laughed at Israel and attacked them the moment they left.

When Israel withdrew from Gaza Hamas attacked.

How is it we focus on Israel and what it must do Jacee but never a discussion on disarming terrorists and confronting their existence and realizing until they disband there can be no peace talks.

What you think its possible to live in peace with Hamas, Hezbollah? You think they magically go away if you ignore them and simply focus on Israel?

Been there done that. This lecturing what Israel should do with zero comment as to what the Arab world must do is pointless.

Its actually a crock.

Now disarm terrorists and find me some genuine moderate Arabs brave enough to take on their extremist religious fanatics and

I will find you Israelis and Zionists like me willing to do the same with ours.

Its easy to talk peace but there is no one at this point to talk peace with.

Who? Hezbollah? Syria? Iran? Sudan?

I am not here to apologize for any wrong-doings or mistakes Israel has made. Its not perfect.

But let's balance the equation. It takes 2 to tango.

[DogOnPorch]

What possible good can it do to keep baiting people and trotting out old hatreds? I think you just like to wallow.

How does that help with solutions TODAY?

Old hatreds? Who do you think Fatah and Hamas are, anyways? Try current and ongoing hatred. I think you just like to ignore the dudes with the AK-47s, funny ski-masks and poor attitudes.

[DogOnPorch]

But let's balance the equation. It takes 2 to tango.

I agree with your post. It's really pointless to try and force Israel to deal with the likes of Hamas, Hezbollah and Fatah. Israel's big mistake was that they should have made 1967's victory a complete fait accompli like any other conflict. You don't hear The Democratic (lol) Republic of Viet-Nam saying "we're sorry" 6 days out of 7 for killing half a million South Vietnamese in the post "freedom" round-up. That's a done deal. Folks should have been shown the Allenby Bridge if they didn't like the results rather than this 40 years plus of BS. Jordan is that-a-way.

Edited December 31, 2013 by DogOnPorch