Klein pie-thrower gets jail time

[maplesyrup]

Article

This is so typical of Canada's uptight society. no more humour is allowed in politics. How ridiculous!

Canadians need to enrol in some laughter workshops, where they can learn how to NOT take themselves so seriously, don't ya think?

[I miss Reagan]

He got off way too easy. I think anyone who pies, spits on, pushes, threatens, etc. a politician should be given a minimum of 6 months in prison. I don't care if it's Chretien, Layton or Klein. It's unacceptable and it's not funny.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Oh, it's funny!

[I miss Reagan]

Oh, it's funny!

Give me permission to slam a pie in your face as hard as I can when you're not looking. I dare you!

[Black Dog]

I'm sorry, but a pie in the face is not a reasonable or intelligent form of political commentary. All this guy did was make himself look like an ass and damage the credibility of his position. Yahoos like this give leftists a bad name.

[Slavik44]

If I wear to streak through the hosue of commosn woudl that be funny? If I were to TP The PM's House would that be funny? If I were to do a DOS attack on an NDP leadership convention that was using the computer as a way to vote, therefore eliminating peopels ability to vote would that be funny? If I were to go to a Liberal convention with some fart bombs and stink the place up even more then it is would that be funny? If I were to redirect the CPC's website to <enter porn site here> would that be funny? I love watching royal Canadian airfarce and this hour has 22 minutes as much as anyone else but for the most part their is a difference between humor in politics and assaulting politicians with humor.

[takeanumber]

It was assault.

Worse, it was public humiliation.

Klein is a human, whether I agree with him or I disagree with him, he's a human.

I can't advocate the assault and public humiliation of another human. Engaging in public life does not entail getting assaulted or humiliated.

As to the sentence -- no opinion. I don't know how long is the right amount. I think probably being imprisoned on the weekends for two years or so would be best I think. You don't want to turn this guy into a carreer criminal ... he should be able to keep his job etc...

It's Canada, which is why Klein was hit in the face with a pie, instead of a bat or a bullet.

[maplesyrup]

That's the whole point, it was pie not a bat or bullet. Why compare apples and oranges, eh!

Klein is a stumblebum, a drunk, or a dry-drunk who really has no place in civilized politics. Only in Alberta, eh!

[takeanumber]

That's the whole point, it was pie not a bat or bullet. Why compare apples and oranges, eh!

Klein is a stumblebum, a drunk, or a dry-drunk who really has no place in civilized politics. Only in Alberta, eh! wink.gif

Well, because it was a pie, he's only getting the sentence he's getting. If it was a bullet, he'd be going away for a very long time because it would have been murder, and WORSE, Political Murder, which I think many reasonable people would argue makes it worse.

It may be the case that Klein is all of those things, but I can't advocate the public humiliation and assault of a person because they might be a truly horrible person.

I think the time nearly fits the crime.

It's still assault, so it should have been a bit longer, but I wouldn't go so far as to destroy his life over it.

If it was a bat or a bullet: for sure, destroy the guys life.

[maplesyrup]

With all due respect, throwing a pie has come to take on a specific meaning, It is a perfectably acceptable form of political protest. It happens to the elites, because some people feel so helpless in the societies in which they live. Let's not get carried away. The problem is is that it ridicules, or humiliates the politician, and we can't have that, can we!

It is not like spitting on someone, like I saw happeng to Gordon Campbell, and which I heard happened to Lyin' Brian, behaviour which is totally unacceptable, no matter how much one is at odds with both these clowns' misguided policies.

[Guest eureka]

MS:

I think your last comes to the heart of the matter. The level of public fristration grows with the growing sense of impotence. I think, if politics does not become more responsive to ordinary people, we may get worse than pie throwing. The declining numbers of voters is one other manifestation.

The question of Klein's humanity is a quite different one. In my opinion, Klein is a parody of a human being.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear maplesyrup,

throwing a pie has come to take on a specific meaning, It is a perfectably acceptable form of political protest

I do recall some debate about the force that was used in the pie incident. I seem to recall that the pie was 'shoved' rather than 'thrown' into Klein's face. It is claimed by Klein that the force used was excessive.

Further, in this day and age, who knows what that pie could contain? Protest through the medium of physical contact should be disallowed. That also should go both ways (If you'll remember Chretien throttling a protester recently).

[takeanumber]

The protester attacked Chretien. Chretien throttled him, and most Canadians applauded. The reason: the protestor started it.

Pluralism fails when the system becomes unresponsive.

35%-40% of the votes in Calgary go wasted every single election. Their opinion counts for nothing. Forget Western Alienation...you should hear this minority.

Who are they?

The people who persistently vote for Liberals, NDP and Greens.

Under this system, is violence acceptable?

No.

Throwing a pie into somebody's face is assault and public humiliation.

It is a violent act.

If you want to protest, go for it. If you want to lobby to get the system ganged, go for it.

But what seperates us from the third world is our refutation of violence in politics (on the home front).

[maplesyrup]

Pieing someone is a violent act based strictly on a technicality.

What if it were a bag full of feathers? Would that still be considered violent? Of course not.

Pieing has developed into an acceptable form of political protest.

It has happened to the richest man in the world - do you remember Bill Gates getting pied?

This sentence represents a message to to the weak - don't fuck with the powerful.

All this sentence will do is further widen the gap between the controllers and the controllees in our society. not a healthy sign. Don't we have enough problems as it is?

Seriously, we need to stand back and take a look at ourselves, then we would see how ridiculous a situation this is, to throw someone in jail for political disagreement. :angry:

[playfullfellow]

MS, this situation was unacceptable, whether you agree with Klein or not. Would you be yapping the same speech if someone did this to your hero Layton? Probably not, you would be asking for life in prison. Yeah, it was just a pie this time but what about the next time. This sort of crap has a way of escalating if left up to the devices of people. Do we really want to see armed guards around our politicians at all times? Probably not. The guy got what he deserved. His life isn't ruined and he only has to serve weekends.

[takeanumber]

I think it's outrageous that our politicians...nay, ANYBODY in Canada needs security guards.

I don't think anybody here would disagree with MS: the leader-party-public interface is severely broken in this country.

However, let's talk about tactics here.

One of the first things I learned as a kid was that the act of hitting somebody was wrong. It's assault.

Hitting somebody, whether it is with forty featers or just one, is assault, because it is by definition, assault.

Mind you, I havn't seen anybody assault somebody else with a pillow, but yet again, five years ago I hadn't heard of anybody getting assaulted with a pie.

I don't think the cause of resolving the interface problems can be solved through violence, little though stunts like that.

Wanna bring Klein down a peg?

Empower yourself to start a moderate, centrist party that appeals to the soft red tory and baby blue tory vote. Stunts like that only serve to alienate most of the electorate.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Oh, it's funny!

Give me permission to slam a pie in your face as hard as I can when you're not looking. I dare you!

Now you're funny.

I agree in this case he ought not to have hit Ralph with such force, but that doesn't change the fact that pie-ing a politician is usually harmless ... and hilarious.

Did you see Stephane Dion? And Chretien! What a hoot!

[I miss Reagan]

Hey TS, MS. I'm curious how you'd feel if they were throwing pies in the faces of the murderous prisoners at Abu Ghraib? I'm sure you'd be crying for blood for that wouldn't cha?

[maplesyrup]

MS, this situation was unacceptable, whether you agree with Klein or not. Would you be yapping the same speech if someone did this to your hero Layton? Probably not, you would be asking for life in prison. Yeah, it was just a pie this time but what about the next time. This sort of crap has a way of escalating if left up to the devices of people. Do we really want to see armed guards around our politicians at all times? Probably not. The guy got what he deserved. His life isn't ruined and he only has to serve weekends.

Nonsense. I just accept pie throwing as an acceptable form of political protest. Others here do not. Not much more to say about it, apart from commenting on the aspect of worrying about what was in the pie.

Obviously lemon pie is acceptable, but a pie laden with razor blades is not.

This is logic?

Pie throwing is now a form of political protest.

Pie contents could have something harmful like razor blades or nails in it.

Conclusion:

All pie throwing is dangerous.

I think there is more paranoia here than logic.

[playfullfellow]

I think there is more paranoia here than logic

I wouldn't call it paranoia really. Throwing a pie in someones face was started by one person, now you call it acceptable protest. What happens when some moron leaves that pie in the oven for an extra hour or two or is a crappy baker and the pie is rock hard? Would it still be funny, nah. All it takes is for one moron to take it one step further and then someone gets hurt. Keep up this sort of stuff, and no one will have close access to politicians, you will have to get through a glass shield and several big dudes named Bubba to get to see them.

[takeanumber]

While I reject the 'give an inch, take a mile' logic in the previous post, I'll just add that by definition, it's still assault, it's still a violent act, and in domestic politics, we don't engage in violence to prove a political point.

[The Terrible Sweal]

Hey TS, MS.  I'm curious how you'd feel if they were throwing pies in the faces of the murderous prisoners at Abu Ghraib?  I'm sure you'd be crying for blood for that wouldn't cha?

Which murderous prisoners at Abu Ghraib are you talking about??? I haven't heard of any convictions being obtained, so it sounds to me like you're slandering these people. Would you rather be pied or slandered?

And if they had confined themselves to pie-ing them rather than committing sexual abuse against them, I'm sure they wouldn't be in the hot water they are now.

I'm intrigued by a mind that can make a moral equation between a pie in the face and having dogs sicced on you. You're quite amazing, IMR, really.

[kimmy]

A *good* protest against Ralph Klein was at last year's Klondie Days pancake breakfast when a bunch of gay and lesbian couples rushed the stage and started kissing each other right in front of Klein. Klein himself congratulated them for peaceful protest.

A pie in the face, on the other hand, is just stupid. It has no message other than "I hate you" or "I'm juvenile."

I don't buy the argument that smacking people's faces with pies is now a legitimate form of expression because it's happened a few times before. One could make the exact same argument about the anti-globalization protesters who break windows at McDonald's while they're marching. It's happened numerous times, it's only a minor crime, and there's (supposedly) a political message attached to the act, so why don't we just accept it as a legitimate political expression? Because it's stupid and uncivilized and beneath us as a society, that's why.

-kimmy

[ticker]

"so why don't we just accept it as a legitimate political expression? Because it's stupid and uncivilized and beneath us as a society"

I am not sure we are above that stuff.

after the last election and the american negative campaigning slurs by the liberals maybe the pie in the face is the new stardard for political expression by the left.

[I miss Reagan]

This is the difference between the left and the right. If a conservative guy smacked a pie in the face of a politician (even though that's not our MO) he'd be labeled a right wing fascist trying to stop fair political discussion and free speech. But when it's a left wing nut case slamming pies at people it's a form of political expression or free speech.