New Study Says Wind Turbines are Bad For The Health

[bush_cheney2004]

no biggee - as your linked article highlights, too much wind power created becomes simply a more expensive operational maintenance issue... the same issue/concern discussed earlier in this thread in regards to a condition Germany occasionally must deal with. One they're dealing with by upgrading the grid management practices and infrastructure... the same thing Ontario will be faced with.

Nope...it is a "biggee"....a "biggee" in Germany and soon to be a "biggee" in Ontario. "Upgrading grid management practices" now means trying to tame Big Wind's wide variability and poor average production (< 20 %). The situation is now such that more fossil fuel plants will be needed to operate intermittently (when least efficient), defeating the very "carbon reduction" goal intended, and/or power must be purchased (e.g. from nuclear).

Or as they like to say in the bidness....."baseload is a bitch !! "

Go Green ! Go Big Wind! It's only money !

[waldo]

Nope...it is a "biggee"....a "biggee" in Germany and soon to be a "biggee" in Ontario.

easy for you to say... to claim. Qualify it - put a cost to your hyperbole.

[waldo]

Ontario has been paying through the nose for a long time due to McGuinty's policies.

care to qualify... and attribute... your "paying through the nose" comment? Perhaps you're one of those who thinks Ontario consumer/industry energy use projections won't rise in the future - yes? Even the most "independent" accounts I've read show hydro related expansion and transmission capital costs are the major contributors over and above any capital costs associated with such things as smart meters and the few gas plant moves and coal plant conversions. I've already shown the minimal impact that renewables have on actual consumer electricity bills... and the minimal cost contribution that renewable/conservation subsidies has on the per kWh cost of energy.

[bush_cheney2004]

easy for you to say... to claim. Qualify it - put a cost to your hyperbole.

I don't have to.....Ontario ratepayers can already see the rise in "global whatever" costs. Big Wind adolescence is over, time to run and be held accountable in real markets just like those old dirty power sources. This is a perfect example of "be careful what you wish for", be it in Germany...or Ontariariario.

[waldo]

I don't have to.....

as acknowledged and discussed in the Germany example, obviously, there will be additional costs for changes to grid management practices and the associated infrastructure requirements to support those operational management practice changes... attributing and proportionally qualifying those additional costs in an Ontario setting reaches beyond your standard hyperbole. Clearly you don't "have to"... you can say... you can claim... whatever you want! Without you qualifying your say, your claim, it's nothing more than your unsubstantiated hyperbole as to what costs may associate with grid operational management practice changes.

[bush_cheney2004]

as acknowledged and discussed ....

Then why waste the time and pretend that such costs are only "minimal". There is no spin cycle you can select that can hide the Big Wind boondoggle in Ontario. The "global whatever" surcharges can/will exceed the cost of actual power generation. Sure glad I belong to a tiny power co-op and don't get hosed like "ratepayers" (is this a new term for "customer"?) in Ontario.

Green Greed is good.

[bush_cheney2004]

This as reported is 2012:

...But critics say the governing Liberals' expensive foray into wind and solar power is the main culprit behind higher hydro rates.

...Green energy is only a small portion of the May rate increase, she said. Last year, only three per cent of Ontario's power came from wind and solar.

"But they will be the bulk of the cost increases over the next five years," Herzig added.

In 2010, the government warned that hydro bills would jump 46 per cent over five years and green energy would be responsible for 56 per cent of that increase.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2012/05/01/toronto-electricity-rates.html

[waldo]

Then why waste the time and pretend that such costs are only "minimal".

again, you make claims without attribution and qualification. The (acknowledged) costs for Germany to upgrade it's grid management is simply an operational cost. As is your hyperbolic way, you funnel that into an unsubstantiated talking point. It's quite heelarious to read you trot out a "greed" natter when presuming to isolate on renewables and totally ignore the real "greed" behind BigOil.

[waldo]

This as reported is 2012

care to speak to the levelized cost (LCOE) comparisons between renewables and traditional sources? The IEA, EIA have some recent reports you might care to draw from... why, I was just about to throw something up from Lawrence Livermore Labs but I hesitate to cite an American source given how you absolutely 'wig-out' over that being done!

[bush_cheney2004]

again, you make claims without attribution and qualification. The (acknowledged) costs for Germany to upgrade it's grid management is simply an operational cost. As is your hyperbolic way, you funnel that into an unsubstantiated talking point. It's quite heelarious to read you trot out a "greed" natter when presuming to isolate on renewables and totally ignore the real "greed" behind BigOil.

Precisely my intent.....Big Green and Big Wind have become the very things their champions (and apologists) hated to begin with. There is no shortage of media stories out of Ontario to demonstrate that it has been "heelarious", and will only get funnier, while costing "ratepayers" even more.

As for how I choose to communicate this laughable situation, that's my choice, not yours. You can worship "renewables" anyway you wish, and I can mock same. Got it ?

[bush_cheney2004]

care to speak to the levelized cost (LCOE) comparisons between renewables and traditional sources? The IEA, EIA have some recent reports you might care to draw from... why, I was just about to throw something up from Lawrence Livermore Labs but I hesitate to cite an American source given how you absolutely 'wig-out' over that being done!

LOL! Now you are hearing my footsteps, calling you out and pointing to an over reliance and dependency on "denier nation" research and data.

[waldo]

As for how I choose to communicate this laughable situation, that's my choice, not yours. You can worship "renewables" anyway you wish, and I can mock same. Got it ?

I fully acknowledge your want/desire to offer your unqualified opinion... however, you really need to look inward to distinguish between your perceived mocking and blowhardiness!

[waldo]

LOL! Now you are hearing my footsteps, calling you out and pointing to an over reliance and dependency on "denier nation" research and data.

oh not at all... not at all! This was me, as you say, "mocking" your ultra-sensitivity and self-confidence deficiency that rises whenever others cite a source from your (claimed) country.

[bush_cheney2004]

oh not at all... not at all! This was me, as you say, "mocking" your ultra-sensitivity and self-confidence deficiency that rises whenever others cite a source from your (claimed) country.

By all means, please continue to rely on my "denier nation" research and data. No reason to change now! It has nothing to do with sensitivity, but everything to do with the obvious dichotomy, still unreconciled to this day. I am so proud of Ontario, able to create its Big Wind boondoggle without NASA and Goddard research.

[waldo]

By all means, please continue to rely on my "denier nation" research and data. No reason to change now! It has nothing to do with sensitivity, but everything to do with the obvious dichotomy, still unreconciled to this day. I am so proud of Ontario, able to create its Big Wind boondoggle without NASA and Goddard research.

ah yes, now you're in your full-blown troll mode! Unfortunately, I have real work to do and can't piss-away any more time dealing with your unqualified, unsupported, unsubstantiated, hyperbolic blowhardiness. Have a great day, hey?

[bush_cheney2004]

ah yes, now you're in your full-blown troll mode! Unfortunately, I have real work to do and can't piss-away any more time dealing with your unqualified, unsupported, unsubstantiated, hyperbolic blowhardiness. Have a great day, hey?

Okay...have a nice day...I get paid to mock apologist posts extolling Big Wind....Green Greed.....and Renewables !!

[bush_cheney2004]

Say it ain't so Ontario...$585 million wasted on gas fired power plants that won't be built in cities that refuse to site them, but wind turbines are being forced down rural community throats. For a second, I thought I was reading about another cancelled helicopter contract by the Liberals !

http://ontario-wind-resistance.org/2013/05/01/gas-plant-cancellations-cost-585-million-ontario-power-authority/

[waldo]

Say it ain't so Ontario...$585 million wasted on gas fired power plants that won't be built in cities that refuse to site them

huh! I thought this was a wind power related thread... must be slim pickings for you to have to dip your wick in 'gas plant moves'! Didn't googly provide you any hits after I suggested you have a look at the levelized cost comparisons for all energy generating sources? Is there a problem?

Even the most "independent" accounts I've read show hydro related expansion and transmission capital costs are the major contributors over and above any capital costs associated with such things as smart meters and the few gas plant moves and coal plant conversions. I've already shown the minimal impact that renewables have on actual consumer electricity bills... and the minimal cost contribution that renewable/conservation subsidies has on the per kWh cost of energy.

[bush_cheney2004]

huh! I thought this was a wind power related thread... must be slim pickings for you to have to dip your wick in 'gas plant moves'! Didn't googly provide you any hits after I suggested you have a look at the levelized cost comparisons for all energy generating sources? Is there a problem?

Turns out that those forced wind turbines in Ontario come with an extra bonus.....more gas fired plants to make up for the ridiculously optimistic wind projections and base load demand that doesn't care if the wind ain't blowing. Goodbye reliable, dirty, and cheap coal power that sent cross border pollution from Nanticoke to the USA ! Hello expensive, variable, and trendy wind power. Renewables rock !

[bush_cheney2004]

Is Europe giving up on "Green Energy" ? With cost trends like these, it's a no brainer.

Leaders of the 27 European Union countries met yesterday to discuss energy issues. The meeting, as described by AFP, represents a turning point in European energy policy. Europe’s leaders are ready to join the shale oil and gas revolution to avoid being left behind economically:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/05/is-europe-giving-up-on-green-energy.php

When will Ontario stop the bleeding ?

Edited June 12, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

Turns out that those forced wind turbines in Ontario come with an extra bonus.....more gas fired plants to make up for the ridiculously optimistic wind projections and base load demand that doesn't care if the wind ain't blowing.

don't hesitate to extend on multi-decadal energy requirement forecasts for residential/commercial/industry... and translate that into your claimed "more gas fired plants required"... not nuclear???... not hydro???... not renewables??? You've already shown you haven't a clue concerning capacity factor... now, you're on a roll!

Goodbye reliable, dirty, and cheap coal power that sent cross border pollution from Nanticoke to the USA!

oh my! Your concern for Ontario is touching... most touching... and convincing too! But hey now, I expect the following brings you to your knees in a slobbering fit of dread and remorse!!! Go EPA, go!

July 2012: EIA reports 27 gigawatts of U.S. coal-fired capacity to retire over next five years... from 175 coal-fired generators between 2012 and 2016

but wait... breaking news!!! The EPA has the fix in! March 2013: EPA rules to shut down more than 280 coal-fired units ---

more than 280 coal-fired generating units are slated to be shut down in part due to stricter Environmental Protection Agency regulations.

The American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity, a partnership of industry groups, reports that the number of coal plants slated for shutdown is fives times greater than the EPA predicted would be forced to shut down due to its regulations.

Coal-fired electric generating plants will be shut down across 32 states, with the hardest hit states being Ohio, Pennsylvania, Georgia, West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky and Indiana, according to the coalition.

The list of coal plants slated for shutdown has been expanding rapidly since last summer when the Energy Information Administration estimated that 175 coal-fired generators would be retired in the coming years due to declining demand for electricity and stricter environmental regulations.

.

[bush_cheney2004]

Now here is some home grown common sense by Canadians for Canadians. "In 20 years, wind turbines in Ontario will be colossal monuments to our stupidity".

Edited June 12, 2013 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

Ontario top map for wind turbine development. No wonder the "rural" folk are so pissed off:

[waldo]

Now here is some home grown common sense by Canadians for Canadians.

oh my! Desperate times for sure... you link to a video youtube channel hosted by none other than MLW member scribbler's "modern day heroine" from a few pages back... and wow, just wow - the vid has a ginormous 488 views! More pointedly, other than hosting an anti-wind blog, just who is this 'Richard Wakefield' guy in the vid? I always gain a sense of real confidence in bloggers who offer-up nothing as to their background or credentials! Well done, BC_2004 - like I said, must be real slim pickings for you out there, hey?

[bush_cheney2004]

oh my! Desperate times for sure... you link to a video youtube channel hosted by none other than MLW member scribbler's "modern day heroine" from a few pages back... and wow, just wow - the vid has a ginormous 488 views! More pointedly, other than hosting an anti-wind blog, just who is this 'Richard Wakefield' guy in the vid? I always gain a sense of real confidence in bloggers who offer-up nothing as to their background or credentials! Well done, BC_2004 - like I said, must be real slim pickings for you out there, hey?

Yawn....McGuinty is going to resign tomorrow because the green energy scandals have taken quite a toll. Many people in Ontario are fed up with the costly boondoggles and direct costs to their "hydro" bills and taxes. It doesn't matter who Wakefield is, so save the usual character attacks for another thread.

Good night.....sleep tight....hope the wind blows...tonight.

Edited June 12, 2013 by bush_cheney2004