Each Economic Action Plan commercial during HNIC costs $95,000

[jacee]

If the Libs/NDP get in power they will perfect federal deficit to a science making this expense look like chump change..

Perhaps you should actually look at the data before making such claims:

http://blogs.usask.ca/the_bolt/images/federal_defecit_conservative_liberal_2010.gif

What Conservatives say, and what they do are two very different things.

Edited May 17, 2013 by jacee

[roy baty]

Who's the source for this chart? A Liberal partisan location? I have looked @ the data. It's all the same drivel from you Harper haters. The only difference is that this chart and you conveniently forgot the Trudeau years and forgot to mention that we endured the greatest global economic collapse since the depression under the Harper years and managed it better than most G-8 nations. Before you assume any ignorance on my part, please provide ALL the data including the 1967-1983 data that Mulroney was left to deal with.

Edited May 15, 2013 by roy baty

[roy baty]

Actually we had a surplus under the last Liberal government. Looks like the Tories have already beat the Liberals and NDP at perfecting deficit to a science.

You Libs are all the same. Just ignoring the global mess the Cons had to manage like every other G-8 nation did... If you think the Libs./NDP would have ran a surplus since 2008 you're dreaming. Again, you guys fail to refer to the Trudeau years of exponential debt growth and spending.. Time will tell and so will voters in 2015.

Edited May 15, 2013 by roy baty

[silver72]

You Libs are all the same. Just ignoring the global mess the Cons had to manage like every other G-8 nation did... If you think the Libs./NDP would have ran a surplus since 2008 you're dreaming. Again, you guys fail to refer to the Trudeau years of exponential debt growth and spending.. Time will tell and so will voters in 2015.

AND so did the Libs after the PC mulroney. so. all this debt is on both the parties. and since we really don't know how the NDP would manage, you can't include them.

[roy baty]

AND so did the Libs after the PC mulroney. so. all this debt is on both the parties. and since we really don't know how the NDP would manage, you can't include them.

The NDP gave us a taste of their big government spending managing a large economy during the Bob Rae years in Ontario so I disagree that we don't know how they would manage...

Edited May 15, 2013 by roy baty

[jacee]

Who's the source for this chart? A Liberal partisan location? I have looked @ the data. It's all the same drivel from you Harper haters. The only difference is that this chart and you conveniently forgot the Trudeau years and forgot to mention that we endured the greatest global economic collapse since the depression under the Harper years and managed it better than most G-8 nations. Before you assume any ignorance on my part, please provide ALL the data including the 1967-1983 data that Mulroney was left to deal with.

Here you go:

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/gdp.jpg?w=300

Conservatives have created this wholesale mythology about high spending Liberals and implied lower spending Conservatives.

BUT IT SIMPLY ISN'T TRUE.

I wonder if Conservative supporters are ever going to wake up to the real truth.

Clearly they never actually look at the data, just parrot what the politicians say.

It's a load of hooey.

They must think their supporters aren't too bright.

Btw ... the 2010 Harper debt appears on the graph to be about $520b.

For 2011 it was $550b, 2012 it's $582b

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_public_debt

Still rising.

Harper is spending his way out of the recession just like a Liberal.

Still drinking the Conservative koolaid?

How do the Conservatives get away with the myth of 'good financial management'?

Quite bizarre.

Edited May 17, 2013 by jacee

[roy baty]

Btw ... the 2010 Harper debt appears on the graph to be about $520b.

For 2011 it was $550b, 2012 it's $582b

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_public_debt

Still rising.

Harper is spending his way out of the recession just like a Liberal.

Still drinking the Conservative koolaid?

How do the Conservatives get away with the myth of 'good financial management'?

Quite bizarre.

So please enlighten us all with the current Liberal plan to take us out of the global economic recession better and quicker than the Cons.. We've yet to see any real alternative come from your camp in quite some time now and the voters seem to know that as well. Again, I ask this: Do you think if the Liberals were in power since 2009 we'd be running a similar level of government surplus you Libs seem to think was entirely the result of Liberal policies in the 90's? If you do, and I said this before, you are living in a fantasy world where there was no global economic crash drinking your own red Kool-Aid.

The action plan ads I see are advertisements for government programs and not Conservative Party political ADs like you guys like to constantly paint them as. If they were released by the Liberal government I would feel the same way about them. There is far worse government squandering of $$s that both the Harper and Chretien/Martin government have done that seems to get less attention than this nonsense. Is this the best the Libs can do lately to show us how terrible the country has become economically soley at the hands of the Harper government?

Do I think the Cons could do a better job? Yes. What bothers me is how most of you guys ignore what the entire planet was dealt in 2009 and lay the entire blame on Harper for it yet tote the great successes of Chretien/ Martin who rode a global economy that was the highest the world has ever seen with policies and reforms created by the Mulroney government which helped immensely in the surplus they enjoyed. What was Trudeau's excuse for debt/deficit growth during his time in power?

Edited May 17, 2013 by roy baty

[Topaz]

The worse thing about this, is the item they are talking about doesn't even exists as yet!! The new federal Canada Jobs for training workers has to have approval from the province, business and pass in parliament , which it hasn't and could be a year before all that is done. T o advertise something at 95,000 per 30 seconds, which doesn't exists really proves that the Tories say one thing about our tax dollars and do another, only to make themselves look good. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/harper-government-buying-ads-promote-job-grant-program-110008286.html

[Argus]

Still rising.

Harper is spending his way out of the recession just like a Liberal.

Still drinking the Conservative koolaid?

How do the Conservatives get away with the myth of 'good financial management'?

Quite bizarre.

While I agree that Harper has been acting like a Liberal, the real Liberals have, indeed, been, overall, poor financial managers. Trudeau, we must remember, doubled budget spending, then doubled it again. He took us from virtually no debt, to owing a bloody fortune just as an international stagflation recession set in. You can say the debt rose higher under Mulroney (who, by the way, I disdain) but that's simplistic. With double digit unemployment and double digit inflation no one in power could have avoided increasing debt payments. And with the government paying very high interest rates on the already existing Trudeau debt, well... how fast do you think debt rises at 10-12% a year when it's not being paid back, and when more loans are being taken out? I don't like the man, but I can't blame him for the debt rise. He did get the budget into the position where, were it not for the $40 billion per year interest payments on the debt they'd have been in balance. And it was his GST which eventually flooded the treasury with money when the economy picked up, allowing Chretien to benefit.

Chretien, I think, is wrongly given credit for getting the deficit under control and starting to pay down the debt. I don't think he ever really cared about it. He only ever cared about political concerns. And with his party riding high in the polls, and no threat on the horizon, he saw no reason to spend much. Better to horde the money so that if a political threat arose he'd have plenty of firepower to bribe people into voting Liberal again. That, in fact, was what happened when the right united and began to rise in the polls. Suddenly the money taps were turned on full and the fat surpluses were basically eliminated. Martin's spending plans were even more generous, and might well have led us into debt again had he not lost.

That's not to say I ever agreed with Harper cutting the GST, btw. In my view, the faster you pay off debt the better. Anyone who lived through 10-15-20% interest rates on mortgages, credit cards, car loans, etc., probably feels the same. But Harper is a political animal and felt he would win brownie points with an ignorant electorate (and did) for promising the tax cut. Still, overall, he has done a pretty decent job given the deep worldwide recession he's found himself in. Absent that recession he never would have gone into debt. The party base simply would not have accepted it.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Argus

[waldo]

The worse thing about this, is the item they are talking about doesn't even exists as yet!! The new federal Canada Jobs for training workers has to have approval from the province, business and pass in parliament , which it hasn't and could be a year before all that is done. T o advertise something at 95,000 per 30 seconds, which doesn't exists really proves that the Tories say one thing about our tax dollars and do another, only to make themselves look good. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/harper-government-buying-ads-promote-job-grant-program-110008286.html

oh my! Harper Conservatives advertising a program that doesn't actually exist... that's only in conceptual stage - that still requires provincial government negotiations and employer buy-in, notwithstanding passage through Parliament!!!

The department did not respond directly to questions about the ethics of spending public funds to advertise programs and services that do not exist.

"It is important the government communicates about programs that benefit Canadians and their families," said the email.

The Conservative government has come under increasing scrutiny for its lavish spending on feel-good "economic action plan" ads that deliver little useable information but tell viewers that Canada's economy is flourishing. Ottawa has spent at least $113 million on the ads since 2009.

No budget was provided for the latest media blitz, but with ads on Hockey Night in Canada costing up to $95,000 per 30-second spot, the ad buy could easily be in the millions of dollars.

[jacee]

But Harper is a political animal and felt he would win brownie points with an ignorant electorate (and did) for promising the tax cut. Still, overall, he has done a pretty decent job given the deep worldwide recession he's found himself in. Absent that recession he never would have gone into debt. The party base simply would not have accepted it.

It never ceases to amaze me that conservative csn look at evidence like that above and still conclude that Conservative governments are better money managers than Liberal ones ... the myth of 'low spending' Conservatives simply is not true.

And the excuse 'Oh but there was a recession' ...

Are there only recessions during Conservative governments?

Ever wonder why?

Edited May 20, 2013 by jacee

[roy baty]

Are there only recessions during Conservative governments?

Ever wonder why?

To even hint the recession in 2009 was due to the Conservative government is simply ludicrous... Alternatively, it amazes me that you Libs think their policies would have handled it better yet have none to present... Then to trivialize 2009 as "just another recession" is another example of how ridiculous Liberal arguments are.

[jacee]

To even hint the recession in 2009 was due to the Conservative government is simply ludicrous... Alternatively, it amazes me that you Libs think their policies would have handled it better yet have none to present... Then to trivialize 2009 as "just another recession" is another example of how ridiculous Liberal arguments are.

No Lib here.

Just still curious how people can ignore clear evidence that the high spending, high debt and deficit party is actually the Cons.

The myth persists despite reality.

They don't exactly walk the talk.

Edited May 20, 2013 by jacee

[silver72]

IF one really faces the facts, both, the Liberals and the Progressive Conservative , had spending problems but the new Conservatives are the worse yet. They don't know where 3 Billion is, they has 10 million missing for a while under Stockwell, but said they found, it, Mulroney never found his 10 million missing from the Treasury. They shouldn't be spending the money just in case that program doesn't get accepted.

[Icebound]

That's not to say I ever agreed with Harper cutting the GST, btw. In my view, the faster you pay off debt the better. Anyone who lived through 10-15-20% interest rates on mortgages, credit cards, car loans, etc., probably feels the same. But Harper is a political animal and felt he would win brownie points with an ignorant electorate (and did) for promising the tax cut. Still, overall, he has done a pretty decent job given the deep worldwide recession he's found himself in. Absent that recession he never would have gone into debt. The party base simply would not have accepted it.

Well, yes, the GST thingy was one of those issues where reality does not meet ideology.

Governments of every stripe, and Harper included, soon learn that a country of 30+ million does require "programs", and those programs have to be paid for. One can argue about which programs are necessary and which are not..... but no matter what, they still have to paid for, and for that you need revenue.

Liberals may not have been the best financial managers But to blindly say, against economists' advice: "I don't need revenue", does not suggest of "good" financial managment, either.

On the lowest level... the programs themselves.... is it "good" financial management to pull 14 million off Tourism promotion, whch affects 600,000 jobs, and stick it into EAP promotion...which does exactly what????

...

...

[ReeferMadness]

While I agree that Harper has been acting like a Liberal, the real Liberals have, indeed, been, overall, poor financial managers. Trudeau, we must remember, doubled budget spending, then doubled it again. He took us from virtually no debt, to owing a bloody fortune just as an international stagflation recession set in. You can say the debt rose higher under Mulroney (who, by the way, I disdain) but that's simplistic. With double digit unemployment and double digit inflation no one in power could have avoided increasing debt payments. And with the government paying very high interest rates on the already existing Trudeau debt, well... how fast do you think debt rises at 10-12% a year when it's not being paid back, and when more loans are being taken out? I don't like the man, but I can't blame him for the debt rise. He did get the budget into the position where, were it not for the $40 billion per year interest payments on the debt they'd have been in balance. And it was his GST which eventually flooded the treasury with money when the economy picked up, allowing Chretien to benefit.

Chretien, I think, is wrongly given credit for getting the deficit under control and starting to pay down the debt. I don't think he ever really cared about it. He only ever cared about political concerns. And with his party riding high in the polls, and no threat on the horizon, he saw no reason to spend much. Better to horde the money so that if a political threat arose he'd have plenty of firepower to bribe people into voting Liberal again. That, in fact, was what happened when the right united and began to rise in the polls. Suddenly the money taps were turned on full and the fat surpluses were basically eliminated. Martin's spending plans were even more generous, and might well have led us into debt again had he not lost.

That's not to say I ever agreed with Harper cutting the GST, btw. In my view, the faster you pay off debt the better. Anyone who lived through 10-15-20% interest rates on mortgages, credit cards, car loans, etc., probably feels the same. But Harper is a political animal and felt he would win brownie points with an ignorant electorate (and did) for promising the tax cut. Still, overall, he has done a pretty decent job given the deep worldwide recession he's found himself in. Absent that recession he never would have gone into debt. The party base simply would not have accepted it.

The premise for your post is patent nonsense. The most recent Liberal administrations were the most financially prudent ones in my lifetime. The Chretien/Martin Liberals, whatever their sins, left Canada is a great financial position. It's only because of them that Harper can brag about Canada's financial performance.

From a financicial standpoint, Harper has run the government no better than Trudeau. At least Trudeau, however, cared enough for the disadantaged to spend the money on them instead of his wealthy buddies.

[roy baty]

The premise for your post is patent nonsense. The most recent Liberal administrations were the most financially prudent ones in my lifetime. The Chretien/Martin Liberals, whatever their sins, left Canada is a great financial position. It's only because of them that Harper can brag about Canada's financial performance.

From a financicial standpoint, Harper has run the government no better than Trudeau. At least Trudeau, however, cared enough for the disadantaged to spend the money on them instead of his wealthy buddies.

Chretien's surpluses were thanks in great part to the Conservative Mulroney economic reforms that Chretien kept in place despite his "red book". Remember the "red book"? Chretien, during his reign pretty much did nothing of major consequence because most of the dirty work was already done for him. He just opted not to spend any of the surpluses generated by those conservative policies even @ a time of western economic high. As a result, he continued to neglect much of the Canadian infrastructure and Military in the process. Both were in shambles due to Liberal neglect. Yes, Chretien/Martin performed great miracles!

Trudeau's policies are night and day from Harper's, nor did Trudeau endure an economic crisis even remotely close to 2009, so your comparison I don't agree with. Trudeau was a huge socialist spender whereas Harper is an economic recovery, infrastructure and stimulation spender. Is all of their spending responsible? No. More wealth distribution of the Trudeau years is something we do not need and it will hurt us in the long run. What we need are private sector jobs and industry growth.

Edited May 21, 2013 by roy baty

[jacee]

Chretien's surpluses were thanks in great part to the Conservative Mulroney economic reforms that Chretien kept in place despite his "red book". Remember the "red book"? Chretien, during his reign pretty much did nothing of major consequence because most of the dirty work was already done for him. He just opted not to spend any of the surpluses generated by those conservative policies even @ a time of western economic high. As a result, he continued to neglect much of the Canadian infrastructure and Military in the process. Both were in shambles due to Liberal neglect. Yes, Chretien/Martin performed great miracles!

Trudeau's policies are night and day from Harper's, nor did Trudeau endure an economic crisis even remotely close to 2009, so your comparison I don't agree with. Trudeau was a huge socialist spender whereas Harper is an economic recovery, infrastructure and stimulation spender. Is all of their spending responsible? No. More wealth distribution of the Trudeau years is something we do not need and it will hurt us in the long run. What we need are private sector jobs and industry growth.

Rationalize it however you like, but the indisputable fact is that Conservatives have been the highest spending governments of the last 50+ years.

If we're talking now about how the money is spent, that's a reasonable conversation to have.

However, Conservatives lambasting Liberals for 'high spending' aren't well informed about their own party's spending habits in government.

Edited May 21, 2013 by jacee