Israel apologizes to Turkey

[Guest American Woman]

They were going to go in with humanitarian aid. Get the guns out! Humanitarian aid is coming to help people in need!

Yes, indeed. That was the purpose of their mission. To deliver humanitarian aid. That's why they were running the blockade.

If their objective/concern was getting humanitarian aid to the Palestinians, they wouldn't have been doing it by running the blockade. And the nine people would still be alive.

You need to pay attention to the information I have given you.

I don't have to do anything you tell me to do.

The UN has had a few different reports. Most of them say that the blockade is illegal. It's cute to see you are finally agree with one thing that the UN has said and tightly holding onto the only 'view' which says it's legal, while dismissing and pretending all the other conclusions which say that the blockade is illegal and a violation of international.

And it's "cute" how you pick and choose your UN reports, and whichever one agrees with you, is the one we must all heed. I find that just darling.

Are you going to deny that majority of the conclusions by the expert panels say that the blockade is illegal?

I'm speaking of the panel that investigated this incident. But you already knew that, didn't you?

The report from the panel also determined that the flotilla acted "recklessly" in attempting to run the blockade, and more could have been done to warn those participating in the mission of the potential risks involved and to dissuade them from their actions. One could conclude, based on the findings in the report, that those organizing the flotilla made mistakes. Mistakes that they are not admitting/owning up to - because no one is pressuring them. Again. It's not about the deaths; it's about demonizing Israel.

I can compare it since Israel had no authority to invade the ship. The ships were not trespassing, since they were in international waters and approaching a blockade deemed illegal by most expert panels.

Yes, and of course they were going to do an about face and not run the blockade when they approached Israeli waters. Sure, they were.

Would you feel better about the deaths if they had occurred as they were actually at the point of the blockade? Would it make their deaths somehow less tragic to you? Because we both know that they were going to run the blockade. They didn't organize a violent resistance and take an oath to do so because they were going to follow Israel's procedure once they reached the blockade.

I don't care what you doubt.

And I don't care whether you care or not. I think you do care though, since you keep responding to me. I think you do care that your take on it is being refuted.

Israel has already admitted that it has made mistakes. Even the report that you are holding onto recognizes the mistakes Israel has made.

It also recognizes the mistakes that those organizing the flotilla/those on the flotilla made. Something you refuse to recognize. I've been saying from the beginning that it would be nice if both sides apologized. You're the one here trying to make it all about Israel. You're the one who apparently doesn't care if those on the flotilla could have prevented the outcome by doing things differently. You're the one falsely claiming that Israel admitted guilt.

"Your honour. Please accept my explanation that I shot and killed the people after I invaded their ships with guns and they tried to resist our piracy. Oh and I had to assassinate some of them by emptying bullets into their bodies from close range."

You don't seem to understand that it's not an all or nothing situation; you seem to think that one must say all of the responsibility must go to Israel - or none does. You seem to think that if Israel did something, then that automatically excuses the actions of the other. It doesn't work that way. "Your Honor" likely would have pointed out the risk that was being taken by the attempt to run the blockade; by getting involved in the conflict. "Your Honor" would have likely pointed out that the soldiers had a right to defend themselves.

But for that fact, the nine would still be alive - and Palestine would have received any "humanitarian" goods that were being delivered. Which was the goal, according to you.

Their actions did not warrant having bullets emptied into them from close range. Even this extremely biased and worthless report acknowledges that the Israeli soldiers used "excessive and unreasonable force" and the loss of life is "unacceptable". Do you deny that the Palmer report says this?

Their actions warranted the Israeli soldiers fighting back. That means action A resulted in action B. What does that tell you?

It's so "cute" that you find this report "biased and worthless," as it doesn't agree with the take on it that you are putting out there. I find that just darling.

Of course the loss of life wouldn't be deemed acceptable - duh - but the report certainly points out the wrongs that were done by those organizing the flotilla, too. Where's the demand for their apology? For the acknowledgement of their mistakes? - because it's the loss of life that's at issue - not demonizing Israel, eh?

Edited April 6, 2013 by American Woman

[jbg]

Bibi finally succumbs to pressure and apologizes to Turkey for its role in the Gaza flotilla raid and agrees to pay compensation to the families of the victims.

This admission of guilt is of course, political. It coincides with Obama's visit to Israel and it comes at a time when U.S. and Israel are looking for more support from Turkey in regards to Syria and Iran.

I think there were two (2) other motivations:

1) Israel just started producing natural gas; and

2) With all the other stuff going on with Syria and other uncomfortably close countries, Israel and Turkey had a mutual interest in "un-stirring" the pot at least somewhere.

As for the first, here are excerpts (link to article):

Israel Taps an Offshore Natural Gas Field

By

ISABEL KERSHNER

Published: March 31, 2013

JERUSALEM Israel moved closer to its goal of energy independence on Sunday as natural gas from a large offshore field began flowing into the country, a harbinger of important change that will benefit the country strategically and economically, officials said.

We are taking an important step toward energy independence, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a statement after the natural gas started flowing Saturday from the Tamar reservoir in the Mediterranean Sea to a terminal in the Israeli port of Ashdod, a journey that officials said would take 24 hours.

But here's the key part of the article, as to Turkey:

But the subsequent discovery in 2010 of another major natural gas field off Israels northern coast, known as Leviathan, has even positioned Israel as a future energy exporter. Leviathan, discovered through the work of a partnership between Noble Energy and local companies, was said to have been one of the worlds largest offshore gas finds in a decade.

Nice. Has Turkey apologized to anyone yet regarding the Armenian genocide?

Are you expecting a miracle?

[Rue]

Yes, indeed. That was the purpose of their mission. To deliver humanitarian aid. That's why they were running the blockade.

If their objective/concern was getting humanitarian aid to the Palestinians, they wouldn't have been doing it by running the blockade. And the nine people would still be alive.

I don't have to do anything you tell me to do.

And it's "cute" how you pick and choose your UN reports, and whichever one agrees with you, is the one we must all heed. I find that just darling.

I'm speaking of the panel that investigated this incident. But you already knew that, didn't you?

The report from the panel also determined that the flotilla acted "recklessly" in attempting to run the blockade, and more could have been done to warn those participating in the mission of the potential risks involved and to dissuade them from their actions. One could conclude, based on the findings in the report, that those organizing the flotilla made mistakes. Mistakes that they are not admitting/owning up to - because no one is pressuring them. Again. It's not about the deaths; it's about demonizing Israel.

Yes, and of course they were going to do an about face and not run the blockade when they approached Israeli waters. Sure, they were.

Would you feel better about the deaths if they had occurred as they were actually at the point of the blockade? Would it make their deaths somehow less tragic to you? Because we both know that they were going to run the blockade. They didn't organize a violent resistance and take an oath to do so because they were going to follow Israel's procedure once they reached the blockade.

And I don't care whether you care or not. I think you do care though, since you keep responding to me. I think you do care that your take on it is being refuted.

It also recognizes the mistakes that those organizing the flotilla/those on the flotilla made. Something you refuse to recognize. I've been saying from the beginning that it would be nice if both sides apologized. You're the one here trying to make it all about Israel. You're the one who apparently doesn't care if those on the flotilla could have prevented the outcome by doing things differently. You're the one falsely claiming that Israel admitted guilt.

You don't seem to understand that it's not an all or nothing situation; you seem to think that one must say all of the responsibility must go to Israel - or none does. You seem to think that if Israel did something, then that automatically excuses the actions of the other. It doesn't work that way. "Your Honor" likely would have pointed out the risk that was being taken by the attempt to run the blockade; by getting involved in the conflict. "Your Honor" would have likely pointed out that the soldiers had a right to defend themselves.

But for that fact, the nine would still be alive - and Palestine would have received any "humanitarian" goods that were being delivered. Which was the goal, according to you.

Their actions warranted the Israeli soldiers fighting back. That means action A resulted in action B. What does that tell you?

It's so "cute" that you find this report "biased and worthless," as it doesn't agree with the take on it that you are putting out there. I find that just darling.

Of course the loss of life wouldn't be deemed acceptable - duh - but the report certainly points out the wrongs that were done by those organizing the flotilla, too. Where's the demand for their apology? For the acknowledgement of their mistakes? - because it's the loss of life that's at issue - not demonizing Israel, eh?

I find it adorable "Hudson Jones" won't reply to me directly in any post or acknowledge Hamas exists.

I find his attempt to pretend Hamas does not exist and is in a state of war with Israel absurd particularly when in the next breath he accuses you of bias.

Yep I find it hilarious someone who has never once on a thread about Israel ever recognized any terrorist organization or any version of the conflict with Israel other than the pro Hamas script, thinks he can accuse you or anyone of bias.

Its dag nabbed funny if not so dang hypocritical.

I challenge anyone to find a post where he has ever acknowledged Hamas or Hezbollah are in a declared state of war with Israel.

As I stated in my previous "diatribe" the "Hudson Jones" script can not acknowledge Hamas exists.

Oh do ask "him" yourself why he can not acknowledge Hamas is at war with Israel.

The script gets even more ridiculous by the day.

Yep diatribes.

Lol.Diatribes.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

The apology is not enough the families say. They want the end to the siege of Gaza.

(Reuters) - Israel's apology to Turkey over the 2010 killing of nine Turks aboard a Gaza-bound aid ship did not go far enough and Israeli soldiers will be pursued in court, survivors of the incident said on Monday.

Ahmet Varol, a journalist who was on the Mavi Marmara, said one "formula for a resolution" would be for Israel to provide a timetable for ending the blockade of Gaza, ruled by the Islamist Hamas movement, and make Turkey a monitor of that process.

"Our efforts are for the full lifting of the blockade. Nobody wants compensation, and while an apology may have diplomatic meaning, it means nothing to the victims," he said.

The apology nonetheless showed Israel had accepted its wrongdoing in the incident, Varol added.

Link

[DogOnPorch]

The apology is not enough the families say. They want the end to the siege of Gaza.

(Reuters) - Israel's apology to Turkey over the 2010 killing of nine Turks aboard a Gaza-bound aid ship did not go far enough and Israeli soldiers will be pursued in court, survivors of the incident said on Monday.

Ahmet Varol, a journalist who was on the Mavi Marmara, said one "formula for a resolution" would be for Israel to provide a timetable for ending the blockade of Gaza, ruled by the Islamist Hamas movement, and make Turkey a monitor of that process.

"Our efforts are for the full lifting of the blockade. Nobody wants compensation, and while an apology may have diplomatic meaning, it means nothing to the victims," he said.

The apology nonetheless showed Israel had accepted its wrongdoing in the incident, Varol added.

Link

And I want a billion dollars.

[Rue]

Right Turkey will monitor to make sure Hamas does not bring in weapons. The same nation that has openly supported Hamas and denied it is a terrorist organization and released terrorists from prison who openly stated in Turkey that their agenda was to commit violence to overthrow Israel.

Uh huh.

The only reason the US is scrambling to try get Turkey and Israel to back down from each other is the concern over Iran and Syria. If you are the US you do not want to allies you both need fighting each other particularly when you need both. For the US it makes logical sense Turkey and Israel are allied and they will put pressure on them, but any relations between Turkey and Israel will never be the same.

The current leader of Turkey is openly pro Hamas and anti Israel. His bias is open and pronounced. It is precisely why Israel formed an alliance with Greece, Turkey's no.1 arch-enemy. Israel is committed to working with Cyprus and Greece on the gas deposits located between Cyprus and Israel.

Israel also made it clear it will not remain silent if Kurds are wiped out which is why Turkey had to include in its sudden detente with Israel a detente with the Kurds. That was no coincidence. That is America exerting its influence trying to tell the Kurds, Israel and Turkey to all cool it since Syria is the no.1 concern now, then Iran.

This is an example where strategically what is best for the US, stability between Turkey and Israel, makes sense for them as well.

The no.1 source of instability now that could cause havoc is Syria. Already the displacement of refugees in Lebanon and Jordan presents serious political instability challenges to both nations. When Syria falls, and its only a matter of when, and the Sunnis wrestle back control, Hezbollah will be at a loss. They will no longer have their no.1 ally in Syria. The Sunnis in Lebanon sensing that vacuum may be stirred up enough to challenge them in Lebanon. Iran as well if it loses its ally in Syria, is faced with only Hezbollah in Lebanon as its Mid East ally. Its burned its bridges with everyone else and the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt which will move into Syria replacing the wing of the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria that aligned with Iran will represent its biggest enemy not Israel.

Israel as a scapegoat to keep Arab nations unified is not working anymore. Look around. The major war coming up is between Sunnis and Shiites and Iran you bet is feeling paranoid. It can't depend on the Russians or Chinese its two non ASrab allies who at the same time as being allied to Iran run anti Muslim campaigns in their own nations. True the Russians and Chinese are crushing Sunni Muslims in their own countries but dependable no.

Russia would love Iran to collapse. It gives more monopoly to them on oil prices and exports. China? Well it badly needs Iranian oil yes and for that reason will always prop them like Sudan but that can only go so far until the wily fox Putin figures away to get them to come onside and by Russian crude oil.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

Al Queda or Iranian backed government in Syria? Pick your poison:

The al-Nusra Front, one of the major players in the Syrian opposition, and al-Qaeda in Iraq, the hard-line Salafist group responsible for scores of attacks against US forces and international aid groups in Iraq, are essentially one and the same and will begin joint operations under a new name, “The Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant,” Reuters reported on Tuesday.

“It’s now time to declare in front of the people of the Levant and (the) world that the al-Nusra Front is but an extension of the Islamic State of Iraq and part of it,” said al-Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on Monday, using an alternative name for al-Qaeda in Iraq, according the SITE monitoring service.

Link

[Rue]

Say now, "Hudson Jones" is suggesting Israel has no options...they are all poison.

Imagine that. Psssssst, "Hudson Jones" do tell us, are Hamas or Hezbollah any better? Oh no wait, the script doesn't allow him to acknowledge either.

[Hudson Jones]

Say now, "Hudson Jones" is suggesting Israel has no options...they are all poison.

Imagine that. Psssssst, "Hudson Jones" do tell us, are Hamas or Hezbollah any better? Oh no wait, the script doesn't allow him to acknowledge either.

Say now, "Rue", are you suggesting that Hamas is any worse than Likud and the rest of the ultra-nationalistic parties who will do everything in their power in order to continue the land theft and the systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?

[PIK]

Bibi took the high road. Everyone knew about this ship and what they were up to. It was staged to dare the Israel's to act. The flotilla people put those peiple in harms way hoping Israel would do what it did. The problem was the flotiia attacked 1st. They soldiers were protecting themselves, because the flotilla people had planned to kill Israel's when they landed on the boat.

I don't understand what Rue is talking about now. Can someone translate his latest rant? Did Bibi apologize or not?

Edited May 6, 2013 by PIK

[PIK]

Hudson is just a troll for the arabs. This is all he posts about and denies all facts against his case. I think he should be banned for trolling and just trying to start a fight.

Edited May 6, 2013 by PIK

[Hudson Jones]

The problem was the flotiia attacked 1st. They soldiers were protecting themselves, because the flotilla people had planned to kill Israel's when they landed on the boat.

Yes. The people on the flotilla attacked first by getting the Israeli army board their ship and then getting themselves in the way of the bullets. They planned to kill the soldiers but they didn't, but still we're going to say they planned to kill them because whatever illogical and irrational crap that I feel like typing, as long as it defends Israel, is okay.

[Guest American Woman]

Yes. The people on the flotilla attacked first by getting the Israeli army board their ship and then getting themselves in the way of the bullets. They planned to kill the soldiers but they didn't, but still we're going to say they planned to kill them because whatever illogical and irrational crap that I feel like typing, as long as it defends Israel, is okay.

Sometimes, whether you like it or not, what you claim is "illogical and irrational crap but as long as it defends Israel is okay" is actually the reality.

The people on the flotilla did attack first.

[Hudson Jones]

Sometimes, whether you like it or not, what you claim is "illogical and irrational crap but as long as it defends Israel is okay" is actually the reality.

The people on the flotilla did attack first.

The flotilla was invaded by the Israeli army when the Israeli army boarded the ship without permission. By boarding a private boat in international waters, that's attacking.

[Guest American Woman]

The flotilla was invaded by the Israeli army when the Israeli army boarded the ship without permission. By boarding a private boat in international waters, that's attacking.

Nope, it's not "attacking."

The plan of the flotilla was to run the blockade - and that's exactly what it was in the process of doing. The UN even said that the soldiers had the right to defend themselves.

[Hudson Jones]

Nope, it's not "attacking."

The plan of the flotilla was to run the blockade - and that's exactly what it was in the process of doing. The UN even said that the soldiers had the right to defend themselves.

"The UN said"

Rarely do you use the UN to back yourself up. Why?

We've gone over what many different organizations have said and we've also gone over the Palmer report.

It doesn't matter how you try to spin it, the Israeli army boarded a ship in international waters. That's attacking.

Then they killed people. Some, as it was later revealed by autopsy, were executed. Israel apologized for its roll in the deaths. You should also, for defending it.

[jbg]

The flotilla people put those peiple in harms way hoping Israel would do what it did. The problem was the flotiia attacked 1st. They soldiers were protecting themselves, because the flotilla people had planned to kill Israel's when they landed on the boat.

I sometimes wonder if Israel should have simply sunk the flotilla.

Link to lyrics, excerpt below:

In May of nineteen forty-one the war had just begun

The Germans had the biggest ship that had the biggest guns

The Bismark was the fastest ship that ever sailed the seas

On her deck were guns as big as steers and shells as big as trees

Out of the cold and foggy night came the British ship the Hood

And evry British seaman, he knew and understood

They had to sink the Bismark, the terror of the sea

Stop those guns as big as steers and those shells as big as trees

We'll find that German battleship thats makin' such a fuss

We gotta sink the Bismark 'cause the world depends on us

Hit the decks a-runnin' boys and spin those guns around

When we find the Bismark we gotta cut her down

The Hood found the Bismark and on that fatal day

The Bismark started firin' fifteen miles away

We gotta sink the Bismark was the battle sound

But when the smoke had cleared away

The mighty Hood went down