What are Justin Trudeau's views?

[roy baty]

and your words lacked common sense... are you going to double-down and stick with your interpretation that I didn't know there was an ongoing Liberal leadership campaign? Really?

I do agree w/you that it is ridiculous argument.. Yes he should have assumed you meant "election campaign" but I think he was later just asking for a tincy wincy bit of humility in your response waldo. However, I wonder if humility is something you are remotely capable of. Instead its just relentless condescending responses to anyone who disagrees or even agrees with you.

IMHO, Trudeau will also test the intelligence of the average Canadian voter in the next election should he indeed get the Liberal nod. Hopefully we turn out to have more of it than our friends south of the border did last November.

Edited March 25, 2013 by roy baty

[g_bambino]

I'm finding MLW statements of mine related to the Liberal leadership campaign... all the way back to Sept, 2012.

Wonderful. But, it has no bearing on the fact that your earlier words to which I responded did not take into account Trudeau's current involvement in an "actual" campaign in which he has, to use your words, "refus[ed] to help his opposition... define him" by standing vacuously without any policy for his opponents to address, something you indicated you think is a good tactic in a political contest. This begs all sorts of questions, including my subsequent one asking why it's a good thing to be so excited about a total unknown.

[WWWTT]

I guess you must know more than not just little me but also former finance minister of Ontario Dwight Duncan who in announcing the Ontario turn to some measure of austerity after the 2011 election noted that "the pay and benefits of our public sector employees now account for 55% of the operating budget of Ontario and is the biggest driver of our increased spending".

I'm not sure about the 55% figure?(I would take that with a grain of salt).

But labour is usually a big part of operating costs.

In fact,55% is not really that big of a number and I feel it may be a little too low!

WWWTT

[RNG]

Of great interest to me is the number of cities in the US who have declared bankruptcy and have blamed the onerous and unfunded public service pensions and associated benefits as the primary cause. Again in some political jurisdictions, this potential hazard has been addressed and rectified. Alberta IIRC has done a relatively good job at this, but it is still cause for concern.

[hitops]

no - as Simple just related in his reference to "Conservative Truth Ads". The intent is not to help Trudeau's opponents to falsely frame or improperly manage his identity or positions.

If the strategy is to avoid saying anything that could be re-framed, how can he get anyone excited about him? Pure personality?

[waldo]

I do agree w/you that it is ridiculous argument.. Yes he should have assumed you meant "election campaign" but I think he was later just asking for a tincy wincy bit of humility in your response waldo. However, I wonder if humility is something you are remotely capable of. Instead its just relentless condescending responses to anyone who disagrees or even agrees with you.

roy... you so misjudge the waldo in your sweeping drive-by! Your called for humility doesn't fit within multiple double-downed false inferences that, in turn, imply I'm an idiot and that I didn't realize there's a Liberal leadership campaign running. I gave a rather innocuous initial one-sentence, 4 word reply that explained the context. Apparently, that didn't satisfy... and we went from there - go figure!

[waldo]

If the strategy is to avoid saying anything that could be re-framed, how can he get anyone excited about him? Pure personality?

if it is the strategy... if... it's all about timing. There's a long time before an actual election campaign... a long time to manage and shape the message - and an equally long time to attempt to control the false message that Simple so highlights is coming... the HarperConservative attack "truth" ads.

[g_bambino]

Your called for humility doesn't fit within multiple double-downed false inferences that, in turn, imply I'm an idiot...

You are the victim of insults of your own imagining, waldo.

It is all an effective way for you to avoid my point and its related question, though; I'll give you that.

[roy baty]

roy... you so misjudge the waldo in your sweeping drive-by! Your called for humility doesn't fit within multiple double-downed false inferences that, in turn, imply I'm an idiot and that I didn't realize there's a Liberal leadership campaign running. I gave a rather innocuous initial one-sentence, 4 word reply that explained the context. Apparently, that didn't satisfy... and we went from there - go figure!

Sadly waldo, you ask for "a sweeping drive-by" once in awhile.. Much obliged..

BTW, if Justin's economic policies even remotely resemble that of his father's and he gets elected, we should all be celebrating what will one day be be looked as "the good 'ol days of low debt and low deficits of the Harper era".

Edited March 26, 2013 by roy baty

[shortlived]

Sadly waldo, you ask for "a sweeping drive-by" once in awhile.. Much obliged..

BTW, if Justin's economic policies even remotely resemble that of his father's and he gets elected, we should all be celebrating what will one day be be looked as "the good 'ol days of low debt and low deficits of the Harper era".

on the contrary... as you can see the deficits were massively smaller than the Harper Government's

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/canada-deficit/

As you can see the liberals had very low deficits and surpluses while the conservative government had very high deficits.

Bear in mind the late 70's was a global energy crisis, and if not for Trudeau's NEP Canada's oil wealth may not have been developed.

NEP stopped Imperial Oil's monopoly in the west. They wanted to limit supply. Some 90% of Canadian oil was owned by foreign companies giving Canadians an absence of domestic control at a time when there was an ongoing energy crisis and oil shortage. If oil was earmarked only for export to the US Canadians would go without.

Edited March 26, 2013 by shortlived

[RNG]

on the contrary... as you can see the deficits were massively smaller than the Harper Government's

http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/canada-deficit/

As you can see the liberals had very low deficits and surpluses while the conservative government had very high deficits.

Bear in mind the late 70's was a global energy crisis, and if not for Trudeau's NEP Canada's oil wealth may not have been developed.

NEP stopped Imperial Oil's monopoly in the west. They wanted to limit supply. Some 90% of Canadian oil was owned by foreign companies giving Canadians an absence of domestic control at a time when there was an ongoing energy crisis and oil shortage. If oil was earmarked only for export to the US Canadians would go without.

What alternate universe were you living in at the time?

[shortlived]

What alternate universe were you living in at the time?

See the problem is how you think it happened and how it actually happened is the difference.

See propaganda can be that way.

Look at the link then criticize.

Edited March 26, 2013 by shortlived

[RNG]

See the problem is how you think it happened and how it actually happened is the difference.

See propaganda can be that way.

Look at the link then criticize.

It's what the NEP caused in your universe I am referring to.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I wonder just how many people actually understand what went down to lead to the creation of Canada's National Energy Program. The artificial bubble that lead to the "OIL CRISIS" in the seventies compelled the PM of the day, P.E.Trudeau to attempt a country wide standard for domestic production price controls. Those controls did not actually transpire until the eighties, and as I recall it wasn't fun. My union had signed a contract with 12%,9% and 9 % raises to have a cap imposed and we ended up with far less,how much exactly I cannot recall, but we had ratified it prior to getting screwed. The point is there was much going on. Lots of people think that the NEP hurt Alberta, sadly they were not here to watch how it all played out. The NEP basically made Alberta what it is now, it was a incredible boon to the province. It was the citizens that got screwed, that is a fact.

Still people blame Trudeau, not really understanding that it was Lougheed as well that signed the deal. Pierre got only what Peter was selling nothing more. Over here in Alberta the province attached taxes where there were none before and revenues flew through the roof. Inflation abounded and bankruptcies hit all time highs as adjustments were made. The big real estate crash caused the disappearance of a domestic finance giant, Principle Trust.......forget the big stories on the tv, what was going on at home simply was not pretty. Now consider this....King Peter had claimed that the previous government had a debt issue to win his crown. In plain terms the Progressive Conservative party convinced the citizens that the Social Credit Party was incompetent in dealing with business. King Peter took his crown and starting cutting deals with the oil companies. Money flowed into the province from everywhere except eastern Canada. Bay Street was not happy and Wall Street was making money. Like I said there were lots of things going on. There was reasons for things to happen and they did.

My complaint about the entire mess was that there never really was much of a national energy plan to begin with. It was a tax grab, nothing more and nothing less to the citizens here in Alberta. Had we developed a pipeline industry to disperse production from a refinery system that we created then I would have said that they at least attempted to develop an energy plan. Not exactly what happened. Of course there is the interesting angle about our crown corporation Petro Canada, but that dimension is purely political and not really an economic issue for Alberta other than to say thanks to King Peter from King Pierre. Once again not the province that got screwed so much as the citizens.

These are the things that happened in my universe that I can remember at least.

[Keepitsimple]

See the problem is how you think it happened and how it actually happened is the difference.

See propaganda can be that way.

Look at the link then criticize.

Just click on your link and click on Trudeau - and you'll get a pretty good idea of the troubles that we've had. The Harper deficits are an anomole brought on by the Global recession and will be relatively short-lived because for the most part, they are not structural. As a minority government, the Conservatives introduced a budget with massive stimulus spending. It was criticized by the NDP and Bloc as not spending enough - and by the Liberals for not spending fast enough. Trudeau though, is the real culprit. His massive, massive deficit spending set the table for years to come where a good portion of every dollar went to paying interest on the debt - instead of lowering taxes, strengthening our social safety net, or helping the provinces with Healthcare. Thanks to Trudeau, Chreitien and Martin could only eliminate the deficit by dumping a good portion onto the provinces who still struggle to this day. Trudeau was the genesis of our debt. Chretien/Martin were the genesis of much of the Provincial debt.

[roy baty]

See the problem is how you think it happened and how it actually happened is the difference.

See propaganda can be that way.

Look at the link then criticize.

Well, I looked @ your chart. Perhaps you ignored the graph between 1967 and 1983 when Trudeau was PM. The Harper dip in 2009 is consistent with most G8 nations during that year and is completely expected for that time. Trudeau's spending spree was the most of any Prime Minister. That is a fact no matter what universe you're in.

http://fildebrandt.ca/tag/trudeau/

Indeed he was the Genesis of deficit spending and the king of it. To deny that is just absurd.

Edited March 26, 2013 by roy baty

[matilda]

And young Justin will do the same as pappa did... throw us into deficit and blame others. He is inexperienced and a daydreamer.

[waldo]

And young Justin will do the same as pappa did... throw us into deficit and blame others. He is inexperienced and a daydreamer.

your daydreams aside, your hopeful wish attachment is simply your personal projection.

Jerry_J... thanks for the good read - always good to have that missing perspective when the proverbial 30+year old NEP boogeyman gets trotted out.

[PIK]

If justin wins. With murray with the momentum and some liberals now realizing that he is just a flake ,that he does not win it on the 1st ballet he could be in trouble.

[PIK]

So his policies will have to be:

Gut the military.

Give in to the natives.

Start hanging with dictators again.

Open up immigration again to everyone.

No pipelines.

He will have to be opposite of harper ,so what else will he do?

[hitops]

So his policies will have to be:

Gut the military.

Give in to the natives.

Start hanging with dictators again.

Open up immigration again to everyone.

No pipelines.

He will have to be opposite of harper ,so what else will he do?

Based on what? I can'd fine any more evidence that those would be his policies than that the exact opposite of them would be.

[guyser]

So his policies will have to be:

Open up immigration again to everyone.

He will have to be opposite of harper ,so what else will he do?

He couldnt possible bring in more than Harper . Harper has brought in the most of anyone.

So much for being in the know huh?

I thought you had connections and insider info?

[shortlived]

conservatives better stock up on their heart medication. I know they don't like losing. its going to be an angry year in 2015.

Edited April 4, 2013 by shortlived

[guyser]

conservatives better stock up on their heart medication. I know they don't like loosing. its going to be an angry year in 2015.

The Conservatives hearts are loose ? Can they do heart exercises to tighten them up?

[shortlived]

The Conservatives hearts are loose ? Can they do heart exercises to tighten them up?

don't be retarded.