North Korea can blow up my house what about yours?

[Signals.Cpl]

Read it again,and pay close attention to those who helped South Korea!

You forgot what we were debating.Or maybe you never knew in the first place?

Don't worry,you helped prove my point so we'll let it slide.

Regardless NK still exists so this war ended in a stalemate.

WWWTT

Yeah the UN got involved and for the first and last time they did something right...

[Signals.Cpl]

Thanks again for pointing out that the US helped out SK and without their involvement they would have lost.

Please keep the links coming!

WWWTT

And likewise without China and even with active Soviet support they still would have failed.... What are you trying to prove? NK had Soviet support SK had American support, NK was defeated even with Soviet support and needed over a million Chinese soldiers to keep their borders. You conveniently forget that both NK and SK had superpower support... difference being that the US was there as part of the UN while the USSR pretended they were not involved...

[Signals.Cpl]

False!

The US was always there,as an occupier.

But they needed re-enforcements and without US involvement,game over!

The claim implied was that NK would not survive without China(true and I will not contest).

But the south needed the US or they would have lost to the North!(this is my claim)

And NK Needed Soviet support to invade the south which means that they didn't do this all by their lonely self but had a Superpower in their corner.

And until more re enforcements were sent,the south was losing.(and you provided the link,thank you)

Until the UN came in to make things a little even the North with Soviet support was winning...

Therefore you have the north and the south.

WWWTT

Neither side fought by themselves... unless you are reading North Korea's version of history which is just fiction.

[WWWTT]

Good then,we are in agreement!

I'm glad I was able to straighten you out here.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

All about Japan? Has is been all about Japan for the last two decades or is this another lesson of the history that never was?

Umm,lets see.

Japan invades Asia over 100 years ago and kills literally millions of people.

The only nuclear strike on directed at civilians were on Japan.

The only reason why American troops are really stationed in Japan and Korea stems all from Japans activities originating around 100 years ago.

And you are wondering that Japan has nothing to do with this????!?!?!?

Ok if you say so.

Notice that I am able to express my point without any vulgar expressions,try it sometime,it's not so hard to do!

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

North Korea is a threat only to South Korea, they are not a wild card they will go as far as China is willing to let them go...once China says stop they may huff and puff all they want but they will go back in their corner and sulk.

I would even go a step further and say that NK is actually acting on behalf of China!

NK is also the biggest threat to Japan!The only country to suffer a nuclear attack.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Wow so sensitive... your entire post was basically the US is big and bad while China is the good old boys that look out for the little guy... I think calling it BS pretty much summarized what I thought of your opinion on this. I love how you are into censorship...someone calls you out on your bs you cry about it...keep up the good work reporting those who disagree with you and I will remember that I need to treat you as one of the special little people lest you go cry in the corner...

No it wasn't!

I called you out and you just didn't like that.

You expressed your opinion through vulgarity and once again I must report it!

You feel you want to be a big tuff guy,see where it gets you.

WWWTT

[Signals.Cpl]

Umm,lets see.

Japan invades Asia over 100 years ago and kills literally millions of people.

The only nuclear strike on directed at civilians were on Japan.

The only reason why American troops are really stationed in Japan and Korea stems all from Japans activities originating around 100 years ago.

And you are wondering that Japan has nothing to do with this????!?!?!?

Ok if you say so.

Notice that I am able to express my point without any vulgar expressions,try it sometime,it's not so hard to do!

WWWTT

Or it could be because of British and French Imperialism and the need to maintain trade relations with China since the late 19th century...you know a war or two were fought against China by the western powers... so the US was there because of Chinese trade in the 19th century and the need to keep certain ports open to western traders, the US was occupying Japan in 1950 in part because of World War 2 but in a big part also because it was their strategy in the far east during the cold war... I realize you have cornered yourself and are trying to find a shred of legitimacy to your position but over the last 20 or so years after the fall of the USSR NK has been involved in numerous unproved attacks against the south which had nothing to do with Japan you can make the case it is all about Japan and I can if I wanted to prove that it is all because of the Roman Empire, or the Greeks, or the Persian Empire...

Also if we are going to go back in history to back up your bs might as well point out that the US was in the region because of Spain see Spanish American War...

[Signals.Cpl]

I would even go a step further and say that NK is actually acting on behalf of China!

NK is also the biggest threat to Japan!The only country to suffer a nuclear attack.

WWWTT

NK is not acting on behalf of China because it is not in China's best interest to have such a disaster waiting to happen so close to their own borders... this is not aimed at Japan but is aimed at the US because they are on of the players backing the sanctions which are now hurting the elite's and not just the common people... NK is the biggest threat to SK and that is exclusively because of Artillery...

[Signals.Cpl]

No it wasn't!

I called you out and you just didn't like that.

You expressed your opinion through vulgarity and once again I must report it!

You feel you want to be a big tuff guy,see where it gets you.

WWWTT

It gets me censorship?

You did not call me out, you threw BS propaganda trying to twist history and ignore the parts you don't like to fit your agenda and now you are throwing a tantrum and reporting me... go ahead thats what I get for trying to educate someone who throws a tantrum every time their bs is disproved... you can report me 100 times and it will not make you right in this situation... or anywhere else for that matter...

[Michael Hardner]

There's enough factual information on this thread to keep the discussion going without the sideshow of small insults.

If you report someone then you don't have to tell the person that they have been reported - if the moderators take action they will find out eventually.

[TimG]

Japan invades Asia over 100 years ago and kills literally millions of people.

Ah - no. Japan did what the Europeans had been doing for centuries: use superior technology to establish colonies. The large scale deaths came only during WW2. Japan also followed the British model of colonialism where it invested heavily in the infrastructure of the colonies. This is why Japan has cordial relations with states other than Korea and China (the Taiwanese, in particular, have good relations with Japan).

The only reason why American troops are really stationed in Japan and Korea stems all from Japans activities originating around 100 years ago.

The US is in Korea because the Russian and Chinese tried to take it over. I am sure that the South Koreans are extremely grateful that they are living in a high tech modern society thanks entirely due to the US support. Without it they would be like Vietnam today.

And you are wondering that Japan has nothing to do with this????!?!?!?

Koreans have been trapped between empires for centuries. The Japanese takeover was deemed preferable 100 years ago by some Koreans (not all) because it provided protection against China. Modern Koreans prefer the innocent victim narrative today but that is a whitewash. Edited March 9, 2013 by TimG

[WWWTT]

NK is not acting on behalf of China because it is not in China's best interest to have such a disaster waiting to happen so close to their own borders... this is not aimed at Japan but is aimed at the US because they are on of the players backing the sanctions which are now hurting the elite's and not just the common people... NK is the biggest threat to SK and that is exclusively because of Artillery...

I disagree and agree.

Before I start,this comment I will respond to because you do not use insulting language!

I agree the biggest threat to SK is NK.

However your claim that China is not using NK because of economic reprisal is unfounded.

The US among many other nations have extended themselves militarily when it was clearly understood that their economies would be negatively impacted.The negative impact never stopped them so why would China be different?

I think you underestimate the economic confidence that China has.

WWWTT

[Signals.Cpl]

I disagree and agree.

Before I start,this comment I will respond to because you do not use insulting language!

I agree the biggest threat to SK is NK.

However your claim that China is not using NK because of economic reprisal is unfounded.

I am not saying that China is worried about economic reprisals, I am saying that China does not care what some petty little dictator wants and will not risk the financial loss they will sustain by having a war so close to home. They tolerate NK because they don't want to share a border with SK and a potentially substantial number of US forces.

The US among many other nations have extended themselves militarily when it was clearly understood that their economies would be negatively impacted.The negative impact never stopped them so why would China be different?

Because NK attacking SK or US forces in the area would be of no gain to China because at the end of the day the US and SK will roll over NK and end up on the Chinese border, they can invade NK and keep them as a puppet if war breaks out but ultimately China will lose much more than it could possibly gain from this situation and my hope is that they pull on the leash soon so that it doesn't come to a war.

I think you underestimate the economic confidence that China has.

WWWTT

I am not underestimating anything, you seem to think that China will let this get out of hand but the reality is few nations want a neighbour to exchange punches with the US especially an aspiring superpower. They will look at the cost of a war so close to home, the cost of potentially having a really pissed off SK on their border with a large American presence on the ground, air and sea in the area and the direct and indirect economic damage that they will sustain because of any conflict between NK and SK/US, then they will look at what they gain and if they determine that they will lose more than they gain from the interaction they will rein in NK.

A war in Korea will be bad news for everyone involved SK could lose potentially millions of people and will end up inheriting millions of impoverished NK citizens which would destroy the rest of their economy that the Artillery did not already destroy. NK will lose the war because as much as they talk up their abilities they are an impoverished nation with a mix of equipment from the time period of 1953-1990 which means that in all cases they will be outclassed by anyone and everyone involved regardless of their size. The US will probably lose a bunch of Servicemen and end up having to pick up the tab for the war and reconstruction or at least parts of it and China will end up with a pissed of unified Korea or whats left of Korea, a large US presence on their border as well as any economic damage they suffer as a fallout from a war.

I hope to god that the leadership of NK do not believe their own propaganda because if they do we might end up finding out just how bad this could get.

[WWWTT]

I don't beleive that China is worried about the US.

They have clearly proven that they will prevail.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if China actually wants the US and SK to invade the North.Because that would pretty much be the end of both parties on the Korean peninsula.

Keep in mind that the US was only able to stale mate China when Red China was at its infancy.And that was a long time ago.

China is much more powerfull now especially in that area.

The US has never gone up against such a large opponent practically one on one in a very very long time and I don't see that changing anytime soon!

WWWTT

[Signals.Cpl]

I don't beleive that China is worried about the US.

They have clearly proven that they will prevail.

How so?The events of 1950-53 do not mean anything in todays world and the players are not in the same situation, for example I don't think that the Chinese people will be willing to see over 140,000 dead to protect a spoiled nutcase on a powertrip. A war between China and the US will be devastating to China whereas it might actually help the US economy to recover.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if China actually wants the US and SK to invade the North.Because that would pretty much be the end of both parties on the Korean peninsula.

Left over with a pissed of Korea and a large contingent of US soldiers, sailors and airmen which would mean that they suddenly have to increase their military to meet the new threat. The USN and the USAF are the largest and strongest in the world, it would be a few decades before the Chinese navy can hope to challenge the USN and the same applies to the Chinese airforce which means that China wouldn't want a strong American presence on their border, a much stronger presence than right now.

Keep in mind that the US was only able to stale mate China when Red China was at its infancy.And that was a long time ago.

With substantial technical and material support from the USSR and with limited economic ties between the US and China, something that China depends on at this point in time and will not risk over NK.

China is much more powerfull now especially in that area.

And so is the US.

The US has never gone up against such a large opponent practically one on one in a very very long time and I don't see that changing anytime soon!

And that does not negate the advantage of the US... saying that I haven't fought anyone in a long time does not influence my ability to fight...

[WWWTT]

And that does not negate the advantage of the US... saying that I haven't fought anyone in a long time does not influence my ability to fight...

Only US advantage is that they have two allies in the area,SK and Japan.And the big one was neutered.

Geographical distance means US support of a war against a country with 4 times the population of the US will thin out fast!

The US does not go it with so few allies up against a country like China,that simple.I will have to see it to believe it!

If the US thought they could take out NK,they would have done it long ago.

NK isn't stupid either,they know what side their toast is buttered on and it doesn't make sense that they would anger their only ally.

Sounds more like NK is acting like a puppet.

WWWTT

[WWWTT]

Left over with a pissed of Korea and a large contingent of US soldiers, sailors and airmen which would mean that they suddenly have to increase their military to meet the new threat. The USN and the USAF are the largest and strongest in the world, it would be a few decades before the Chinese navy can hope to challenge the USN and the same applies to the Chinese airforce which means that China wouldn't want a strong American presence on their border, a much stronger presence than right now.

So how are they doing in Afganistan?

WWWTT

[Signals.Cpl]

Only US advantage is that they have two allies in the area,SK and Japan.And the big one was neutered.

Significantly stronger airforce and navy and a powerful army that can hold its own while economically China is tied to the US and closing trade with one of the biggest markets in the world will hurt them while giving a boost to the US economy.

Geographical distance means US support of a war against a country with 4 times the population of the US will thin out fast!

China is a lot less likely to to throw hundreds of thousands of soldiers and billions of dollars down the drain, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for them to go to war over NK, the USN sits off the coast and sinks or captures any ship going in or coming out of there and China will be on its knees soon enough as they don't have the means to defeat the USN in combat.

The US does not go it with so few allies up against a country like China,that simple.I will have to see it to believe it!

USN sits off the coast and destroys China's trade with the rest of the world and who loses then? None of the nations they border will help them because they will be too busy taking over China's markets and we can see China going back a generation.

If the US thought they could take out NK,they would have done it long ago.

The US could takeout NK, the few thousand arty pieces that are aimed at the heart of SK are the stumbling block, the US does not want to go to war when it means millions of people will die within hours of start of hostilities and millions more would be homeless and injured. War is for SK to decide since SK would be doing the dying if they decide to go to war with NK we should support them but we should not be forcing them to let millions of their children die...

NK isn't stupid either,they know what side their toast is buttered on and it doesn't make sense that they would anger their only ally.

If they were only rational enough to care....

Sounds more like NK is acting like a puppet.

Care to explain the last 20 years then?

[Signals.Cpl]

So how are they doing in Afganistan?

WWWTT

Big difference between an insurgency and a conventional war, the US is one of the best nations when it comes to conventional war and I don't think that China wants to tangle with them just yet. This is like comparing apples and oranges...

Edited March 10, 2013 by Signals.Cpl

[WWWTT]

Of course there's a big difference,because the US is losing.

Argue all you want,fact remains that NK still exists and is speaking loader and loader.

China is getting stronger and stronger and the US is becoming more and more dependant on China.

This problem is up to the Chinese,Americans,Japanese and Koreans to solve.

And part of the problem is that the US occupies part of the area.

The longer they stay there,the loader the grumblings from NK

WWWTT

[Signals.Cpl]

Of course there's a big difference,because the US is losing.

Argue all you want,fact remains that NK still exists and is speaking loader and loader.

Because they hold a loaded gun to 20 million South Korea's which kind of means that anything done by either SK or the US will cause casualties before they can take out the threat. Besides speaking louder and louder means nothing if the only thing that NK can do is kill a few million unarmed civilians and and get defeated quickly thereafter...

China is getting stronger and stronger and the US is becoming more and more dependant on China.

The US imports much more from China than the other way around which means if the US is pushed they can shut it down and China is in trouble.

This problem is up to the Chinese,Americans,Japanese and Koreans to solve.

And when one of the players is led by a lunatic the outcome can be scary...

And part of the problem is that the US occupies part of the area.

Which part do they occupy? Japan and South Korea are independent democratic nations which are not under occupations by American forces so what does the US occupy other than their own territory in the region?

The longer they stay there,the loader the grumblings from NK

WWWTT

You can give NK anything and everything they want and they will still demand more, they are in this position because of their own actions not the Actions of SK, the US or anyone outside their country.

Compare the history of the two Korea's over the last 60 years and compare their current situation, SK has a better economy, a much higher standard of living and a world class military which includes all components, a strong navy, a formidable airforce and a powerful army while NK has a military that is stuck in the 1970's that has only one ace up their sleeve and that is the artillery aimed at the heart of SK since their army is numerically large but of dubious quality by any standard a navy that can at most stand up to SK for no more than 5 min in open combat and an airforce that get limited flight experience because of fears of defection. I suspect that the US and SK have been working on the problem for sometime now and eventually will come up with a solution if they don't have one already which means that with or without Chinese approval NK will be put down.

I love how you romanticize a dictatorship that is killing its own people and threatening to kill millions of people in minutes and still blaming the US for it...

[shortlived]

wow so they nullifed the treaty and started operations against the south korean drill..

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/12/world/asia/north-korea-says-it-has-nullified-1953-korean-war-armistice.html?_r=0