Vancouver Coast Guard station closes

[Wilber]

Safety starts at home.

Play safe.

No I don't think it is up to the government to protect people it is a service for them to do so. People should protect themselves, first. Having access to a cop is just an advantage. Lots of people in remote areas, including the ocean are their own officers. As a captain of a craft you are responsible for your souls.

Aw common, you aren't serious that only those who can pay should have the protection of the law? Your perfect world is everyone packing heat and employing private armies. Not this tripe again. The authority of the captain of a craft is established in law, not his ability to impose his will by the personal use of force.

[shortlived]

Aw common, you aren't serious that only those who can pay should have the protection of the law? Your perfect world is everyone packing heat and employing private armies. Not this tripe again. The authority of the captain of a craft is established in law, not his ability to impose his will by the personal use of force.

No, not at all, but I don't think we should all pay for a law that should instead be based on us all having equal access to execute it without a requirement for payment.

I don't think it would happen that way. Some people would some people wouldn't look at the states militias for example. I think having a responsible public is more important that child proofing everything. No a captain is authorized to use force if required.

None the less, the key is having a capable intelligent public not an incapable braindead public who depends on the government for everything. Likewise I'd rather have access to law than being subject to it.

Government help programs should be aimed at capacitating not making up for deficiencies in public capacity and leaving them that way.

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

s

No, not at all, but I don't think we should all pay for a law that should be based on us all having equal access to execute it without a requirement for payment.

I don't think it would happen that way. Some people would some people wouldn't look at the states militias for example. I think having a responsible public is more important that child proofing everything. No a captain is authorized to use force if required.

None the less, the key is having a capable intelligent public not an incapable braindead public who depends on the government for everything. Likewise I'd rather have access to law than being subject to it.

Government help programs should be aimed at capacitating not making up for deficiencies in public capacity and leaving them that way.

Well, lets get rid of fire departments as well. If your house burns down because you and your neighbours can't put it out with your garden hoses. To bad, you should have planned better. If a government can't provide basic emergency services for its citizens, who needs it.

[shortlived]

s

Well, lets get rid of fire departments as well. If your house burns down because you and your neighbours can't put it out with your garden hoses. To bad, you should have planned better. If a government can't provide basic emergency services for its citizens, who needs it.

I think this is a good start, but I think that the general public may be willing to pay for the service. so yes fire departments should be self funded services. LIkwise people should be interested in their own homes fire safety, and protecting their own homes, or even becoming volunteer firefighters, or having neighborhood watch. Investing in neighborhood fire hoses and low cost fire protection equipment that can be kept in a community shed.

The problem is using the government as a middle man which adds unneeded middle layers for paper pushers to eat up money and waste time and centralized local services.

With robotics this becomes even less needed as local neighbour hood drones can be employed for fire protection and rescue roles including flying drones.

these are just the tip

FIre fighters should be roled into a consolidated emergency service also.

The more government services you get the more bloat, first you need to cut the fat, go to core services, and self fund to the furthest extent those core services. Keep the money out of the hands of bureaucrats and put it direct to those services. Not base tax rate we spend where we want, but rather, we raise funds for where it needs to go and you are billed specifically for that service.\

ps if you have a fire at your home, if you can't put it out yourself kiss your home good buy, firefighters will mostly just stop the spread of the fire to other homes... and at the least you will likely suffer massive damage.

Having the ability to quickly put out your own fire and know how is the base of where you should be at for saving your home from fire.

Having ropes and/or latter availability is another important thing if you arn't on the first or second floor.

What you pay for fire service in a year for the paper pushing is probably more than the cost of those materials. over the lifetime of your home you could probably have your own sprinkler system which is very affordable to install in piping in homes.

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

The general public already pays for the service. We do it through taxes. This way, everyone gets service regardless of their ability to pay. That's what separates a society from dog eat dog survival of the fittest anarchy.

Many departments use volunteer firefighters. Bear in mind you are of course expecting volunteers to put their lives on the line to protect your property.

[shortlived]

The general public already pays for the service. We do it through taxes. This way, everyone gets service regardless of their ability to pay. That's what separates a society from dog eat dog survival of the fittest anarchy.

/

Apparently not.

Bottom line here is it is best to have the eggs in the basket rather than getting someone to cook them for you.

The poor don't have nothing to protect anyway.

Your view is saying intelligent people create chaos, quite the contrary, inept incapable stooges and sheep create chaos cause they don't know how to take care of themselves.

Example - don't go pleasure boating when the water is so cold you die of hypothermia in minutes.

Many departments use volunteer firefighters. Bear in mind you are of

course expecting volunteers to put their lives on the line to protect

your property.

------

No actually firefighters let property burn if their safety is at risk, think again.

It is really unfortunate for sure the bottom line here is, people shouldn't have to give their money to someone else to take a percentage, and then pay people to deliver a service.

People should be able to choose what services they want, not be forced to pay for other peoples services, like lifeguards for when they go out in bad conditions on the high seas.

Its deplorable people not near oceans are subsidizing your luxury and extravagance pay for your own hobby lifeguard.

There should be CBA's for that stuff "Canadian Boater Association"

Pay for the service, save on the taxes.

If you host on your boat that is probably even tax deductible.

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

See what insurance costs you if you don't have police or fire protection. If you can get it. The reason we have infrastructure is because we all share the load. Even for the stuff we don' t personally use.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Wilber

[GostHacked]

No some of them are just stupid and vindictive.

Not enough money for a coast guard station in the country's busiest harbor but six times as much for a department of religeous freedom on the same day as it is shut down.

The office of religious freedoms does not have any benefit to society in my view. The Coast Guard is something worth spending money on. Like firefighters at an airport, sure not needed all the time, but ready to go instantly in an emergency.

[GostHacked]

Safety starts at home.

Play safe.

No I don't think it is up to the government to protect people it is a service for them to do so. People should protect themselves, first. Having access to a cop is just an advantage. Lots of people in remote areas, including the ocean are their own officers. As a captain of a craft you are responsible for your souls.

Resources are limited, rescue at sea is not a given. Urban areas have quick response times, how many people own boats?

Vancouver is a major port of entry for goods in Canada. The Coast Guard does a lot more than simply rescue people. eventhough SnR is their main focus.

Sure priorities could be better, but rule of the sea is to lend aid to your fellow sea people in distress. If you don't have a sturdy craft or the seas are bad don't endanger yourself Have a plan and boat in packs. These are common sense rules. Wear boyant stuff like a wetsuit, or drysuit while at sea, and have an emergency plan. emergency radio beacons or other systems. Don't stray far from shore if you can't swim that far in the water conditions.

Most vessles are not equiped ot fast enough to handle emergencies, this is why you need specialized craft and a specialized trained crew. I want a professional not someone who does this thing ever other weekend.

Law and Order is what is important people die, this preserve life kick is secondary to the provide an ideal society, which is the #1 priority not save life. People die and are killed at times for good reasons such as protecting the social ethos.

Wtf are you going on about here?

If saving life was #1 fast food and other bad for you junk food would be banned, guns would be illegal as would sharp objects in general, people wouldn't be able to drive cars over 20km/h and we would have neighbour hood health status kiosks.

Its not about how long you live but the protection of your life, liberty and happiness.

Wtf are you going on about here?

The government is not suppose to provide this for you, but should make it available for you to secure it on your own.

If I have to supply it on my own, I hope there is a serious reduction in my taxes that I have to pay. Less government services should cost me less , not more.

The safeguards should be there but this means insuring an order and law that insures the capability of all people based on the protection of the equal rights and freedoms.

Should I be providing my own police/fire department/hospital as well? If that is the case, again, my taxes should be drastically reduced. Emergency services are something we should spend money on.

If you are ever in a car accident, please make sure you have your own police/tow truck/fire truck/ambulance ready on hand. Because, you don't have a right to be saved.

[shortlived]

See what insurance costs you if you don't have police or fire protection. If you can get it. The reason we have infrastructure is because we all share the load. Even for the stuff we don' t personally use.

Not everyone lives in a city.

[shortlived]

The office of religious freedoms does not have any benefit to society in my view.

I'm waiting for the office of expressive freedoms, and office of peaceful assembly freedoms, and office of assocation freedoms, also what happened to belief and opinion...

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[shortlived]

....

Ok what do they do that CBP, which should also be rolled into emergency service security, isn't suppose to do? Also now that Canada is a protectorate of the US under the security perimiter stuff what role isn't being accounted for?

Then pay for a professional life gaurd, anyone on a boat should trained to fish someone out of water. First aid should be started to be taught in elementary school, and all Canadians should have adequate marine first aid skills by the time they are out on a boat. Having first aid cert should be prerequisite to being a commanding officer. Likewise coast guard training could be rolled into ocean going craft operation for all ships crew.

As far as preserving the social ethos before preserving life is pretty straightforward the composition of society is more important than keeping people alive, yes kill people who are attacking society. If you have someone with a gun who is going to kill you or rape someone blowing their head off is a legitimate response, if the furtherance of the threat or intent of commission of an offence is not able to reasonably be prevented otherwise.

I agree though taxes should be reduced, and the personal income taxes completely removed after the debt is paid off. Government services should be paid for, while core services should be there at base. Government protective services does include protecting society, but also government function. However, people who go out on boats should have their own means of survival and rescue. You shouldn't be out on a boat without adequate safety gear.Golden rule is if you can't swim to shore,you need a way of boating to shore. If you don't have a lifeboat and you can't swim to shore you are too far out. If you go out on the water, you can loose your boat. Don't go out further than your marine radio can reach to call for commercial boat repair services.

Tow services are incredibly high, and almost pay for themselves up in remote areas without a CAA membership. I'm NOT saying you have to personally own everything but paying directly to a private service is 99% of the time more cost effective and with "help cooperatives" you are going to save money by paying the service rather than the government bureaucracy that won't even take your service needs into consideration when making choices, such as operating a support station.

Having your own home security, your own personal security, your own fire safety equipment etc.. yes you should provide it. Don't depend on the government for anything they will fail you.

Be Prepared!

(and no doubt insurance companies would bill you for the services as not having any customers aint good for them, they'd have their own fire services and it would be your home insurance not your property taxes.)

What is better paying for city police or a home security system with security officer responders like AD&T? What protects your home more when you are away or at work?

My guess is police will be there to take a report for insurance purposes, home security and video, and an urban tracking system, eye in the sky via a private balloon that can track criminals will go a lot further in finding the guy and preventing the crime.

The police don't do all this stuff https://www.adt.ca/en/home-security/solutions/monitoring

and now only 100$ for an install, how much does your city police force cost you?

You are effectively just subsidizing business and government costs by paying for police forces, they do little to protect individuals before a crime is committed, because they arn't community based, they are patrollers.

The existence of police actually makes people less likely to directly intervene, in a timely fashion to prevent an offence. Instead they call police allowing offences to continue for minutes or longer.

If people knew it was them or no one many situations would be responded to that otherwise would be allowed to continue.

\

The problem is the corrupt government people don't want assertive people who respond to problems. So there are inadequate protections and training for people.

Open public self organized militias would help greatly in reducing this problem.

Police services arn't gearing themselves to protect people, they are gearing themselves to attack and arrest people. Especially, visible threats.

There are almost no CCTV systems or balloon camera systems that can monitor neighbourhoods via heat source and computer tracking systems. These are not expensive systems (before the 60000% markup because they are being sold to a public service that can gouge the public for funding)

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

Not everyone lives in a city.

Living in a city has nothing to do with it. Infrastructure is more expensive on a per capita basis in rural areas because there are fewer people to share the expense. On the other hand, rural areas are essential to a city's existence and rural areas rely on cities for markets. It makes sense that we pool our resources to provide adequate services in both.

User pay can only go so far. If transit had to rely solely on user pay, there would be no transit, nor would there be roads to drive on. Why should I pay for the road in front of you home if I don't drive on it? If you can't convince your neighbours to help you pay to pave your front street, you will either have to pay for it yourself or put up with a dirt track. You then end up with towns where one block is paved and the next is dirt. Same goes for every other service that you rely on. Power, water, sewer, you name it. If you don't have the ability to generate power, access to a water source or can't put in some sort of septic system, you're SOL.

Insurance companies are in the business of providing insurance, not fire protection and policing. They are not in the business of making and enforcing laws, nor would we want them to be for reasons which should be obvious. You will pay through the nose for insurance or not get it at all. Just ask someone who lives on a street with no hydrants or in a location with no fire service.

Home security systems and private security companies are fine, but they are no substitute for the police. Police are officers of the court and have powers and responsibilities that no private company can or should have. Private security companies are also not authorized to carry firearms when carrying out their duties. We do not want a society where laws are enforced by what amounts to private armies acting in the interests of their private paymasters. In some countries they are refered to as war lords.

We have these services because generations before us learned the hard way that they make our lives so much better. You are not proposing a new idea, you want to turn the clock back 600 years.

[shortlived]

Some infrastructure is unneeded if individuals can provide for
themselves. No cities are not essential to rural areas existence, in
some cases they can provide some service but being in the middle of no
where being 300 or 400km from the nearest city ain't much of an
advantage. If you arn't in the south of Canada, cities have very little
ability to provide.

Police powers being seperate from the public domain is part of the problem, having two classes one
with immunity and the other without is contradictory to a free society.
Dirt and gravel roads ain't unusual in the North you urbanite.

Not completely true, human waste is compostable, likewise there are more
water sources than a well. Even a $150 0.02 micron filter will go a long
way in making water safe rather than a $100/month water service. If
people wern't allowed to dump lethal and sickening toxic wastes into our
drinking water supply these issues wouldn't exist.

Also saying the law prevents people from being able to be effective is a bit
like saying, lets make people ineffective at protecting themselves.
That is the problem. We need to enable people to defend themselves not
make them powerless. Give people access to guns, tazers and other
deterents, but insure that people know how to safely use them and they
are held accountable for improper use. Anyone with a general knowledge
of electronics can make a taser, or even lethal DC device, so not letting the lawful people have
them is just contrary to common sense. (ex. these sorts of things can be stepped up a notch.. http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Taser/ ) We need a psychology that
respects non lethal and lethal weapons not one that only sees them as a
means of abuse and government oppression of the common man.

This is not the same world as it was 600 years ago, so we don't need to
enforce a feudal realm of peasants and lords. Everyone should have the
means to protect themself rather than the government deciding who gets
to lord.

In saying if municipalities didn't provide fire protection, insurance companies would

No, unfortunately we have these services because businesses wanted to protect themselves and offload costs to the public in doing so. Learn a little bit about the development of police and fire services in Canada, it ain't about the little man. We wouldn't even have street lights if businesses wern't out to protect themselves.

The government is NOT spending on YOU.

Do not depend on the government, they will fail you.

Do not trust the government, they will betray your secrets.

Save yourself. Save a friend, do not delay, someone else may not.

Be Prepared! Always.

A little bit of live dc wire can go a long way in insuring people don't break into your home.

*Danger armed lethal security system on site - system may be lethal, may cause permanent paralysis and will cause blindness and deafness*

especially when combined with a triggered limited time sprinkler system.

That and high powered IR lighting and lasers, and a very loud alarm at over 140-180+dB

The common thief will not stay in that setting.

A 180 dB alarm sound system can be lethal. (basically you are lobbing concussive grenades)

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

The world is still populated by humans and human nature hasn't changed. If insurance companies did provide police and fire protection, the costs of that protection would be reflected in your premiums. They would provide service only when and where they considered it to be in their best interest, not yours or anyone elses. You would have zero say in the services you require unless you are capable of providing them yourself.

The same goes for private security agencies. They will act in the interests of their employers who will have competing interests with other employers and their agencies. Businesses may have been a big factor in the developement of public police forces but they do not control those forces because the state is their paymaster, not individual or corporate interests.

By putting public security and law enforcement in private hands, you are opening the way to a feudal system, or worse. Whoever can afford the most force will call the shots for everyone else. Who is going to stop them?

[GostHacked]

Ok what do they do that CBP, which should also be rolled into emergency service security, isn't suppose to do? Also now that Canada is a protectorate of the US under the security perimiter stuff what role isn't being accounted for?

The Coast Guard does search and rescue, I don't think they do border patrol.

Then pay for a professional life gaurd, anyone on a boat should trained to fish someone out of water. First aid should be started to be taught in elementary school, and all Canadians should have adequate marine first aid skills by the time they are out on a boat. Having first aid cert should be prerequisite to being a commanding officer. Likewise coast guard training could be rolled into ocean going craft operation for all ships crew.

You are short sighted in your approach here. Even on calm waters the ability to rescue people is difficult in the open seas. I do like the idea that the crew is trained in first aid and rescue, and I would bet that many are, but what do you do when your boat tips? What about when several of your people are washed over the side. We've seen the boat off the east coast capsize and the crew may be lost at sea. All that training would not do them much good in this situation. Would you like to tell their families that they should have been more prepared?

There are many situations in which the average person is simply not prepared for even if they have prepared for it. Some freeze up mentally and become a liability instead of an asset.

As far as preserving the social ethos before preserving life is pretty straightforward the composition of society is more important than keeping people alive, yes kill people who are attacking society. If you have someone with a gun who is going to kill you or rape someone blowing their head off is a legitimate response, if the furtherance of the threat or intent of commission of an offence is not able to reasonably be prevented otherwise.

I agree though taxes should be reduced, and the personal income taxes completely removed after the debt is paid off.

Oh you are basing this on no debt. At this moment that is completely unrealistic. When do you think the debt will be paid off? Why can't politicians and other government officials take a nice haircut so essential services can continue to be adequate.

Government services should be paid for, while core services should be there at base. Government protective services does include protecting society, but also government function. However, people who go out on boats should have their own means of survival and rescue. You shouldn't be out on a boat without adequate safety gear.Golden rule is if you can't swim to shore,you need a way of boating to shore. If you don't have a lifeboat and you can't swim to shore you are too far out. If you go out on the water, you can loose your boat. Don't go out further than your marine radio can reach to call for commercial boat repair services.

Accidents happen and no matter how prepared you are, crap still happens beyond your control and you need help. Your boat is sinking, sure you have your lifejacket, but the supplies you need will be going down with the boat. Are you shortsighted as well as shortlived? How many vessels out there do you know have a life boat aside from large vessels?

Tow services are incredibly high, and almost pay for themselves up in remote areas without a CAA membership. I'm NOT saying you have to personally own everything but paying directly to a private service is 99% of the time more cost effective and with "help cooperatives" you are going to save money by paying the service rather than the government bureaucracy that won't even take your service needs into consideration when making choices, such as operating a support station.

Trained professionals with the proper equipment. I will take that over any part time SnRs or volunteers.

Having your own home security, your own personal security, your own fire safety equipment etc.. yes you should provide it. Don't depend on the government for anything they will fail you.

What are you getting at with the societal ethos? By that notion, we should not even have a standing army, because like you said, the government will fail us there. Why is holding a military important and not having the ability to rescue people at sea if you make the blanket claim of the government cannot help? I guess we can also use the military to help bring politicians home from their vacation.

Be Prepared!

I agree, but can you prepare for everything?

(and no doubt insurance companies would bill you for the services as not having any customers aint good for them, they'd have their own fire services and it would be your home insurance not your property taxes.)

What is better paying for city police or a home security system with security officer responders like AD&T? What protects your home more when you are away or at work?

No one protects my home. Even if I had an ADT system, does it prevent the crime from happening or simply documents the crime? I have a couple decent neighbours that look after my place if I am gone for a few days. And I have another friend who drops by to take care of my cat during those times.

My guess is police will be there to take a report for insurance purposes, home security and video, and an urban tracking system, eye in the sky via a private balloon that can track criminals will go a lot further in finding the guy and preventing the crime.

I don't want the constant presence of cameras in the sky. Privacy issues.

The police don't do all this stuff https://www.adt.ca/en/home-security/solutions/monitoring

and now only 100$ for an install, how much does your city police force cost you?

If someone wants to steal something, having a security system won't help.

You are effectively just subsidizing business and government costs by paying for police forces, they do little to protect individuals before a crime is committed, because they arn't community based, they are patrollers.

However the Coast Guard does search and rescue at sea after an accident happens and people are in dire need of help. If you want to talk about ethos, then saving people at sea who are in trouble should be part of it. What you are portraying is a selective ethos.

The existence of police actually makes people less likely to directly intervene, in a timely fashion to prevent an offence. Instead they call police allowing offences to continue for minutes or longer.

There are situations where that is warranted. And out at sea other vessels do come and help if they can, but the boats the Coast Guard can get there much quicker.

If people knew it was them or no one many situations would be responded to that otherwise would be allowed to continue.

\

The problem is the corrupt government people don't want assertive people who respond to problems. So there are inadequate protections and training for people.

Open public self organized militias would help greatly in reducing this problem.

Going off the rails here,

Police services arn't gearing themselves to protect people, they are gearing themselves to attack and arrest people. Especially, visible threats.

Well at least we can dispense of the notion that the police are there to protect and serve the public.

There are almost no CCTV systems or balloon camera systems that can monitor neighbourhoods via heat source and computer tracking systems. These are not expensive systems (before the 60000% markup because they are being sold to a public service that can gouge the public for funding)

This is not a solution to the problem presented in the OP. Even if you had the balloons, let's say at sea, what are your plans now to send out help when needed?

[Topaz]

Both opposition parties begged the Tories not to close any Coast Guard post and either coast, but like always they doing it their way. it will be up to the voters in these areas to decide in the next election. The Tories keep saying its to cut cost, but they are still running high overhead costs, while cutting services in all departments.

[shortlived]

The world is still populated by humans and human nature hasn't changed. If insurance companies did provide police and fire protection, the costs of that protection would be reflected in your premiums. They would provide service only when and where they considered it to be in their best interest, not yours or anyone elses. You would have zero say in the services you require unless you are capable of providing them yourself.

The same goes for private security agencies. They will act in the interests of their employers who will have competing interests with other employers and their agencies. Businesses may have been a big factor in the developement of public police forces but they do not control those forces because the state is their paymaster, not individual or corporate interests.

By putting public security and law enforcement in private hands, you are opening the way to a feudal system, or worse. Whoever can afford the most force will call the shots for everyone else. Who is going to stop them?

How does this differ from government? (talk about learn from history THAT IS WHAT GOVERNMENT IS! You want public service, let the public perform the service! Give them equal rights and access to perform the service) Private sector will fill the gap. I'm not saying get rid of these things, but I am saying roll emergency service and public safety (military, police, fire etc..) into one service, and have them all on the same playing field instead of 5 different administrations and barriers to provision of services. (It could be called DHS or something like that) Cut the duplicate waste out.. and offload all municipal services to the municipalities to determine if they want to provide that service. However ideally this would be billed to people using the service. Ideally for private matters, private enterprise should fill that void unless the government can provide it at 0 cost or profit by making it a fee based subscription service.

Home insurance is not mandatory. Much like life insurance.

Take the Mennonites as an example for a long time they had community self help as part of the bee aspect of their culture.

You are just saying this is how it is.

Well you lost your coast gaurd station, the way it has been done, not doing you much good now huh?

If y'all self organized in the first place you'd have your own boats and training and wouldn't be crying that papa abandoned you.

Control means choice, choice means control. Capacity means ability to exercise control, incapacity equals dependence and no choice.

The fact here is YOU COULD SELF ORGANIZE, but you are incapable of organizing your own services. why is that?

They don't "have to" do anything for you, there is no law that says they "have to" do anything for you. So don't expect them to, when it is between their interests or yours.

Do not depend on government, they will fail you.

Be Prepared.

When the zombies come don't expect big government to save you. It is you or them.

Edited February 21, 2013 by shortlived

[Wilber]

To be clear, I do not boat in Vancouver harbour although I used to many years ago. I do remember taking a 13 ft boat under Lions Gate with a strong tide running. Somewhat interesting as I recall. Before the Coast Guard, emergency service was provided by two RCAF crash boats based at the old Kits air force station. The present Coast Guard station is located on what used to be part of that base and the boats were transfered to the newly formed Coast Guard. My present boating consists of an 11 ft inflatable with an 8 hp motor that I use for lake fishing. It's never seen salt.

You seem to think that everyone on the water should have the same training and equipment as professionals. For some odd reason you also think it would be better to have all emergency services and the military rolled into one, all controlled by Ottawa, carried out in most cases by people who have little or no local knowledge, engaging in their own bureaucratic turf wars thousands of miles from most of the people they are sworn to serve. The present state of the RCMP should make one very wary of that approach.

[Wilber]

Latest Coast Guard cut.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2013/02/20130221-194751.html

[shortlived]

To be clear, I do not boat in Vancouver harbour although I used to many years ago. I do remember taking a 13 ft boat under Lions Gate with a strong tide running. Somewhat interesting as I recall. Before the Coast Guard, emergency service was provided by two RCAF crash boats based at the old Kits air force station. The present Coast Guard station is located on what used to be part of that base and the boats were transfered to the newly formed Coast Guard. My present boating consists of an 11 ft inflatable with an 8 hp motor that I use for lake fishing. It's never seen salt.

Thanks for the insight.

You seem to think that everyone on the water should have the same training and equipment as professionals.

Captains yes, I think the US coast guard has some good expectations for sea going boaters. For shore based boating, no, but they should stay close to the shore and be within swimming distance, or within reach of a life guard. People should not go out into the north oceans without proper safety equipment and training.

For some odd reason you also think it would be better to have all emergency services and the military rolled into one, all controlled by Ottawa,carried out in most cases by people who have little or no local knowledge, engaging in their own bureaucratic turf wars thousands of miles from most of the people they are sworn to serve. The present state of the RCMP should make one very wary of that approach.

I didn't suggest it should be controlled by Ottawa. Essentially the CF is an independent agency most of the time. While policies are set, that is laws, commanding officers carry out those orders, as a martial society they function seperately from civil society and have their own court system. The point that civil society enters is in setting those laws and expectations of operations. these should keep political corruption seperate from the system. Also the executive can remove or put in judges as required, effectively the judges just hear charges of illegality. It is self regulating.

I think the CF should be largely self financed through enterprise, running a merchant marine, charging for security services to businesses and individuals, as well, as operating remote stations for resource extraction and security operations.

I think that there does need to be mechanisms to cut down on corruption within government agencies. I think largely that it should be public boards that oversee and provide insight into civil interface issues. but everyone should get a vote, and there should be inbuilt protections to prevent the media from sensationalizing things. The public has a voice in service provision by being the ones who pay for those services. If they want private security they can hire it, that is effectively what municipal police and fire services are, only in the case of police they have special power, and in the case of fire fighters atleast by some provincial legislation fire marshals etc.. also have special powers, I'd rather have those powers consolidated in the military than private functionaries of local municipalities. I'd rather have a stranger coming into my home to perform an unbaised and depersonalized inspection than a local. Who may be more influenced by local politics.

Ultimately these systems already exist but it is my opinion. It isn't about putting people out of work, but with lagging military spending the system just doesn't protect Canada well enough as it is, and skills like firefighting and peace keeping are skill sets / mocs that the military already engages in, but civilian counterparts get more actual activity on. It would be beneficial for readyness.

There are also ever increasing national security concerns, and these groups are being integrated officially regardless, under an umbrella. No doubt it would be easier to just implement a home land security agency and make the suits black, with skulls on them.

Upper management could be dressed like

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=men+in+black&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSYgkSiL_1xNo3pKxpOCxCwjKcIGjwKOggBEhSkBZ4FvwOfBbIDwwOlBdcF1gXUBRogtsZ0MDdGWDTQGyWm5tbZweh8ZRaGpkB59wm6zYlR25QMCxCOrv4IGgAMIcFopCqS3TD8&sa=X&ei=a-kmUcK7HYar0AHf84CICA&ved=0CCYQwg4&biw=1163&bih=529#imgrc=b22-2KztGztnYM%3A%3BxYoWyW6EuXcFsM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.banzaj.pl%252Fpictures%252Fgry%252Faktualnosci%252FMen_in_Black%252Fmen_in_black_6.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.gry.banzaj.pl%252Fgaleria%252Fmen-in-black-6-galdok-49887-526959-jpg.html%3B1024%3B791

with the whole cover armour deal

This is what I was thinking for the line officers new uniform (dress)

cadpat and firefighting gear etc.. could still be used as required for occupational specialty dress

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=rifts+coalition+uniform&tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSVAlvY-RrOy4QmxpACxCwjKcIGi4KLAgBEgbYB9cH1QcaILtYv6alTYhnylqboGhXhbXLtTBokyaKyuO0dWCJA4m5DAsQjq7-CBoADCH1EDYUxzBVOA&sa=X&ei=AuomUcD0M8bh0gHYw4GgCQ&ved=0CCYQwg4&biw=1163&bih=529

Edited February 22, 2013 by shortlived

[Bonam]

Some infrastructure is unneeded if individuals can provide for

themselves. No cities are not essential to rural areas existence, in

some cases they can provide some service but being in the middle of no

where being 300 or 400km from the nearest city ain't much of an

advantage. If you arn't in the south of Canada, cities have very little

ability to provide.

You know that computer you're using to post on the internet from your rural area? Yeah, it was built in a factory in a city. It was designed by an engineer in an office in a city. Same goes for just about every item you might see around you.

[shortlived]

You know that computer you're using to post on the internet from your rural area? Yeah, it was built in a factory in a city. It was designed by an engineer in an office in a city. Same goes for just about every item you might see around you.

Asia has nothing to do with Canada.

Like Canada makes laptops, the closest Canada gets to laptop production is Arizona.\\\

I stand corrected apparently "EUROcom" makes laptops in Canada... never heard of them before

http://www.eurocom.ca/

Actually I would be suprised if you found anything made in Canada around me except myself.

I buy Canadian produce, which is about as close as you get to Canadian goods around here. But duirng winter even that is lesser.

I tend to be a global purchaser but my organic materials are sourced from rural areas not urban areas even though some production of limited goods can occur there.

Most of my materials ARE not made in Canada, because Canada doesn't compete with the international markets. I would happily pay more for Canadian goods if I was paid more to buy Canadian goods.

Canada made its choice when it joined the WTO and allowed ebay to sell goods in Canada at below MSRP rates equating to indirect dumping.

I would gladly buy Canadian products made by Canadians if they were affordable, a couple items are on my want list

Musk ox wool clothing, seal and other inuit clothing for winter such as caribou haired protection. snow shoes, skis, a wooden canoe, logs for a a log home, canadian grown natural foods such as winter green and other produce, honey, flour, etc..

There is just no creation of a host of materials I would buy if they were available for a reasonable price in Canada, but they are well beyond my cost economy.

take http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/185303-Why-aren-t-there-any-Canadian-ski-companies for example

Sure products are cheaper but no one in Canada makes money from them.

Sure mega corp subsidaries of US companies make money but they arn't even Canadian owned.

Canadian specialty goods companies were murdered by NAFTA AND WTO

Edited February 22, 2013 by shortlived

[Guest Derek L]

You know that computer you're using to post on the internet from your rural area? Yeah, it was built in a factory in a city. It was designed by an engineer in an office in a city. Same goes for just about every item you might see around you.

Agreed 100%.........I'm glad William is doing fine though

[eyeball]

For some odd reason you also think it would be better to have all emergency services and the military rolled into one, all controlled by Ottawa, carried out in most cases by people who have little or no local knowledge, engaging in their own bureaucratic turf wars thousands of miles from most of the people they are sworn to serve. The present state of the RCMP should make one very wary of that approach.

The Coast Guard has gone nowhere but downhill since Ottawa rolled it into DFO and everything DFO touches turns to crap.