Vancouver Coast Guard station closes

[Wilber]

http://www.globaltvbc.com/exclusive+internal+e-mail+reveals+federal+government+may+sell+off+former+kits+coast+guard+site/6442814834/story.html

This really takes the cake. If this is what it is really all about, I can believe I supported these SOB's all these years because you can't believe an effing word they say.

[TimG]

http://www.globaltvbc.com/exclusive+internal+e-mail+reveals+federal+government+may+sell+off+former+kits+coast+guard+site/6442814834/story.html

This really takes the cake. If this is what it is really all about, I can believe I supported these SOB's all these years because you can't believe an effing word they say.

Actually, I think you can blame the supreme court judges who handed natives unspecified rights and have refused to define clear limits to those rights. In this case it appears the 'private owners' will be the already super rich Musqeam band.

[Wilber]

Actually, I think you can blame the supreme court judges who handed natives unspecified rights and have refused to define clear limits to those rights. In this case it appears the 'private owners' will be the already super rich Musqeam band.

Bullshit. That would have nothing to do with lying about why the base is closing. "The Devil made me do it", doesn't cut it.

[TimG]

Bullshit. That would have nothing to do with lying about why the base is closing. "The Devil made me do it", doesn't cut it.

Actually you don't know what kind of deal might have been made. The government has been handing billions (if not trillions) of property over to the Musquem because of their ridiculous aboriginal title claims. The may have offered a deal the government would have been stupid to pass up. The fact is you don't know and won't know until the property is eventually sold/handed over.

Bottom line: spare us you uninformed anger. wait and see what happens to the properties and then pass judgement. If my suspicions are correct then a Liberal or NDP government would have sold out too because those parties actually believe aboriginal title is a moral right as opposed to a legal abomination.

Edited February 23, 2013 by TimG

[Wilber]

You may comfortable with your governments thinking you need to be lied to for your own good but I'm not. These people seem to have a real problem with being up front about anything.

[TimG]

You may comfortable with your governments thinking you need to be lied to for your own good but I'm not. These people seem to have a real problem with being up front about anything.

What was the lie? That they had no plans to close it at the time they were asked? Plans change. That does not mean it was a lie. The worst politicians are those who make dumb promises and try to keep them no matter what the cost.

[Bonam]

Asia has nothing to do with Canada.

Like Canada makes laptops, the closest Canada gets to laptop production is Arizona.\\\

What does that have to do with cities? You said cities are not needed for your rural existence, you didn't say Canadian cities. Cities exist all around the world, not just in Canada, and you use goods produced in many of those cities.

[Bonam]

Agreed 100%.........I'm glad William is doing fine though

Hmmm... think it's William? I guess the "login" alias did disappear.

[shortlived]

What does that have to do with cities? ...cities are not needed for your rural existence, you didn't say Canadian cities. Cities exist all around the world, not just in Canada, and you use goods produced in many of those cities.

Cities aren't needed for my rural existence. I do buy products but it is mostly hobby related crap. It makes life easier, but not needed by any stretch of the imagination.

Edited February 23, 2013 by shortlived

[Guest Derek L]

More Global tabloid articles:

http://www.globaltvbc.com/exclusive+internal+e-mail+reveals+federal+government+may+sell+off+former+kits+coast+guard+site/6442814834/story.html

Some believe one of these properties could be the Kits Coast Guard base.

The e-mail mentions “the First Nations equity proposal for the Jericho Beach, DFO, and RCMP site.”

So no confirmation that the station property is being sold………………..I hope that it is, as I also would like to see the Government sell off and close a minimum of 1/3rd of the property/bases operated by DND also……….

“We all wondered: why are they closing down a Coast Guard station that costs only $700,000 and rescues 300 people a year?” says Sinclair.

Is Mr Sinclair suggesting that by closing the Kitts base, on average, 300 people a year won't be saved?

"The file is still moving forward and the September 2014 departure for CFHA (Canadian Forces Housing Authority) from the Jericho site is still the target. Next update should be in June 2013."

So the PMQs are still the target...........

He hopes that the leaked documents will spur the provincial government and British Columbians into action.

And do what?

[Guest Derek L]

Hmmm... think it's William? I guess the "login" alias did disappear.

After reading the several pages of "ideas", yes, yes I do.

[shortlived]

and do what...

Perhaps the BC premier will go to Washington and lobby Obama not to approve Keystone XL.

That Sa'Adoni, and Groupeei guy disappeared too... maybe William is everyone who stops posting... you know because William is every alt right... all I know is that Login got tempbanned and lost his password on the throw away email site he used to register. It is ludicrist to assume I and Login and William Ashley are all the same person!

This is about the coast guard and kits station not wild conspiracy theories and tabloid press!

Edited February 23, 2013 by shortlived

[Guest Derek L]

and do what...

Perhaps the BC premier will go to Washington and lobby Obama not to approve Keystone XL.

That Sa'Adoni, and Groupeei guy disappeared too... maybe William is everyone who stops posting... you know because William is every alt right... all I know is that Login got tempbanned and lost his password on the throw away email site he used to register. It is ludicrist to assume I and Login and William Ashley are all the same person!

This is about the coast guard and kits station not wild conspiracy theories and tabloid press!

Who said William Ashley ?

[Wilber]

What was the lie? That they had no plans to close it at the time they were asked? Plans change. That does not mean it was a lie. The worst politicians are those who make dumb promises and try to keep them no matter what the cost.

I'm not a big fan of Jim Sinclair but I do agree with him that closing down the busiest station in the country to save 700k made no sense, particularly the way the government has been handing out money for other projects including a 6M expansion of a base in Newfoundland. We are now starting to learn the real reasons behind it.

One day this government might learn that if you are going to take flack over something, it might as well be for being honest, but I don't have high hopes on that score.

The worst politicians are the ones who don't think the public is entitled to know anything because they know better and the end justifies the means.

[guyser]

Cities aren't needed for my rural existence. I do buy products but it is mostly hobby related crap. It makes life easier, but not needed by any stretch of the imagination.

Cities support your way of life and make it easier. Where you live (if in ONtario) is directly supported in part by the enormous tax base of TO and the GTA.

You're welcome.

[Peanutbutter]

There is another station a few miles away so it's completely prudent to take this measure. Two rescue stations nearly side by side is a waste of money. Good on the government to help save some of our money!

[Wilber]

There is another station a few miles away so it's completely prudent to take this measure. Two rescue stations nearly side by side is a waste of money. Good on the government to help save some of our money!

You might not be aware of this but boats can't travel over land, let alone through the city core.

[Peanutbutter]

You might not be aware of this but boats can't travel over land, let alone through the city core.

So we won't have any capsized boats there either. Even more reason to shut it down.

[Wilber]

So we won't have any capsized boats there either. Even more reason to shut it down.

It's looking like Coast Guard service or departmental cutbacks aren't the real reasons behind this closure so this discussion is kind of redundant but just for the heck of it. Look at a map and ask yourself how rescue vessels are going to get from Sea Island or the inner harbour to English Bay which is where the Kits station is located. Bearing in mind, weather conditions could easily double or triple the reaction times when coming from that distance and the new Discovery station will only operate during the summer.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Wilber

[Guest Derek L]

It's looking like Coast Guard service or departmental cutbacks aren't the real reasons behind this closure so this discussion is kind of redundant but just for the heck of it. Look at a map and ask yourself how rescue vessels are going to get from Sea Island or the inner harbour to English Bay which is where the Kits station is located. Bearing in mind, weather conditions could easily double or triple the reaction times when coming from that distance and the new Discovery station will only operate during the summer.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ch_7QJlLXK4/T3ryTmj-eEI/AAAAAAAAArE/KnidYCruM1k/s1600/Vancouver-City-Map.gif

For those that don’t know, the Kitts Station was beside where Vancouver Museum is labelled, the new station right below the label of the aquarium and zoo, the auxiliary station in North Vancouver, and current station with the Hovercrafts and where the crew of the Kitts station will be moved, out by the Airport………

So I’ll ask again, as per Jim Sinclair, the Kitts base “saves 300 lives a year”, of said lives, how many could only be saved from Kitts beach? Beware the treacherous waters off False Creek and Granville Island…….

Or how many of said lives were saved out in English Bay or the Burrard Inlet……….you know, where all the shipping traffic is……….And why is a ~20+ rescue boat better equipped to save them then a 40+ knot Hovercraft(s) and 30-70 knot RHIB? This of course precludes the Coast Guard auxiliary, Vancouver police boat, the former Kitts boat, city life guards, tugboats and other commercial vessels and pleasure craft………

[Guest Derek L]

To add from this Province piece:

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Closure+Kits+coast+guard+base+linked+land+deal+with+First/8007973/story.html

The base in the middle of English Bay is considered the busiest in Canada. Closure of the base — which usually fields about 300 calls a year — will save $700,000 annually.

So it’s not a case of the base saving 300 lives a year, as suggested by Jim Sinclair, but 300 responses, which could include anything from a boater running out of gas, open liquor and loud music during the fire works, an unfamiliar boater with the harbour, pollution concerns from a freighter dumping it’s bilge in English Bay or a boat that slipped it’s moorings and is adrift in the harbour etc………….All instances in which the increased numbers of Coast Guard craft will be able to respond to regardless of where they are based.

[Wilber]

Any response from the new station will have to negotiate First Narrows and come all the way around Stanley Park to English Bay and False Creek. These are the areas where most pleasure boating takes place. Hovercraft and other vessels from Sea Island will have to come via Georgia Straight where weather can make a huge difference in their ability to respond.

Sinclair's statement about saving 300 lives a year is of course nonsense and doesn't help the debate. That the Kits station provides coverage the others cannot is clear. Again, the Kits station provided year round service, the new auxiliary station will only operate during the summer months which is nonsense. The Vancouver harbour airport is the busiest water airport in the country. In 2007, the link to Victoria inner harbour airport was, according to the Official Airline Guide, Canada's busiest air route by the number of weekly flights.

[Peanutbutter]

We need to wait and see if its going to be a problem before we over react.

[Guest Derek L]

Ahh, but how many of the reported “responses” were life or death? And what was the AO? If a vessel is under distress in the middle of the Burrard Inlet, a 40+ Knot Hovercraft or RHIB is able to respond faster then the Kitts based conventional 20+ knot Rescue Boat……….As the Hovercraft and RHIB is also able to cope with higher sea states when contrasted with the conventional design……………I will concede that a boat based in Kitts is better able to respond to a distress call in False Creek/Granville Island based on shear geography, but how many average life and death cases occur in False Creek?

And if the sale of the base was solely based on trimming the deficit, well also contributing to FN land claims………Good………The should start axing and selling off Canadian Forces bases too........And I don't feel there was anything backhanded at all about the closure......it's been in the media for months.

[Guest Derek L]

Ahh, but how many of the reported “responses” were life or death? And what was the AO? If a vessel is under distress in the middle of the Burrard Inlet, a 40+ Knot Hovercraft or RHIB is able to respond faster then the Kitts based conventional 20+ knot Rescue Boat……….As the Hovercraft and RHIB is also able to cope with higher sea states when contrasted with the conventional design……………I will concede that a boat based in Kitts is better able to respond to a distress call in False Creek/Granville Island based on shear geography, but how many average life and death cases occur in False Creek?

And if the sale of the base was solely based on trimming the deficit, well also contributing to FN land claims………Good………The should start axing and selling off Canadian Forces bases too........And I don't feel there was anything backhanded at all about the closure......it's been in the media for months.

Found this from a Q&A with the Minister:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/03/04/on-lessons-from-afghanistan-the-f-35-controversy-and-cutting-military-spending-2/

Q: Where will you find the savings Finance Minister Jim Flaherty is demanding?

A: Some of the savings that we will submit will be found through efficiencies. Some infrastructure is no longer necessary. You know, National Defence is the largest property holder in the government of Canada.

Q: You’ll be selling property?

A: Yeah.

And people thought the F-35 acquisition is nasty……Or the Coast Guard base closure in Vancouver……….Just wait until they start offloading DND property……

Edited March 4, 2013 by Derek L