Should Canada Annex the Turks and Caicos Islands?

[Argus]

There have been a number of moves over the years for Canada to annex the Turks and Caicos Islands. Robert Borden dreamed it up, way back when. The Turks and Caicos islanders themselves tried to convince Paul Martin to do it. But you know those Liberals, always terrified of being seen as being colonialists. I see nothing but win win in Canada annexing the Turks and Caicos. They're a beautiful set of islands which would massively benefit from Canadians flying down for both vacations and retirement. Meanwhile, Canada's foreign trade would be greatly aided by all that vacation money staying in Canada rather than being spent in other 'countries'. The current population is about 31,000, so this would not be a case of masses of 'foreigners' coming into Canada, and frankly, the flood is FAR more likely to be in the other direction.

All it takes is innovative leadership on the part of Canada. Someone with vision and able to think out of the dull, beige box.

[Sleipnir]

Why start annexing countries when we know little about our own backyard to begin with?

Edited February 10, 2013 by Sleipnir

[TimG]

Using federal transfers to the territories as a guide it would cost between 1 and 2 billion a year to maintain the territory. Current tax revenues in the T&C are about $200 million so that would not offset the transfer much. This does not include transition costs.

The location of the T&C would make it a lot easier for economic refugees from places like Haiti and Cuba to land in "Canada" and the right to access the funds that come with the charter protected rights granted to refugees.

The supreme court would likely strike down any provisions used to limit the financial liability for Canada if that meant the people in the T&C could not enjoy the same lifestyle as people in Canada (GDP per capita in T&C 11K - in Canada 41K).

In short, it would likely be a money pit that brings little benefit to Canada.

Edited February 10, 2013 by TimG

[Signals.Cpl]

But there is also the offset when we consider the potential for tourism, think about how it would affect Canada if the millions of Canadians who go to Cuba, DR or Mexico had a Canadian option where they spend their vacation in Canada and the money comes back to Canada. Spending money to develop a potential vacation hot spot would overtime offset any money we have to spend to get it up to level...

Also just to point out that a few years ago we knew that a boatload of refugees was coming to Canada from Thailand and while we had plenty of warning they still landed on Canadian soil, so distance does not seem to help us much.

[Newfoundlander]

How much is vacationing in Turks and Caicos going to cost once minimum wage is brought in and they have to start abiding by Canada's labour laws (among other things). Canadians travel to countries that are cheap to vacation in, I doubt T&C will be competitive as an inexpensive tourist destination as a Canadian territory.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Newfoundlander

[Guest Derek L]

How much is vacationing in Turks and Caicos going to cost once minimum wage is brought in and they have to start abiding by Canada's labour laws (among other things). Canadians travel to countries that are cheap to vacation in, I doubt T&C will be competitive as an inexpensive tourist destination as a Canadian territory.

I’m not arguing fore or against, but Hawaii is still a viable tourist destination…….As is Florida and the rest of the Redneck Rivera States…….

[TimG]

Also just to point out that a few years ago we knew that a boatload of refugees was coming to Canada from Thailand and while we had plenty of warning they still landed on Canadian soil, so distance does not seem to help us much.

A shorter distance makes a huge difference. 70K+ refugees cross the Mediterranean each year and land in Greece and Italy. Edited February 10, 2013 by TimG

[TimG]

I’m not arguing fore or against, but Hawaii is still a viable tourist destination…….As is Florida and the rest of the Redneck Rivera States…….

Hawaii is unique - no place like it nearby. T&C is one of many identical tourist destinations with 1000km. Canadians might like the idea of vacationing in Canadian territory but Americans and Europeans would not care.

[waldo]

I’m not arguing fore or against, but Hawaii is still a viable tourist destination…….As is Florida and the rest of the Redneck Rivera States…….

nice travel advisory!

considering TCI's direct formal tie to the UK and the EU financial outlay supporting TCI, I'm a bit confused where the presumed "annex" comes in. Apparently, the UK frowns upon sovereignty grabs (see the Falklands!).

[Newfoundlander]

I’m not arguing fore or against, but Hawaii is still a viable tourist destination…….As is Florida and the rest of the Redneck Rivera States…….

I know people who just travelled to Florida, flight and accommodations in a gated community resort for $550 each. Florida is also a very different type of vacation then a resort too, and they have a big population with an economy that isn't based solely on tourism. Hawaii is a good point though, but it is an expensive vacation. My point is that the people who travel to Cuba or Dominican Republic are getting an all inclusive vacation for ~$1000, could that be done in Turks and Caicos with a $10 minimum wage? Could they compete with Hawaii?

[Signals.Cpl]

A shorter distance makes a huge difference. 70K+ refugees cross the Mediterranean each year and land in Greece and Italy.

So? We can take care of ourselves and take measures to avoid such a problem by toughening up the refugee laws instead of worrying about the potential problem with a solution we should look at the potential of having a Canadian vacation spot that can potentially see us keeping our tax dollars in Canada as well as attracting Americans and Europeans to vacation there. Compile a list of benefits for both Canadians and the locals and the negative from such a union for both and determine if there is a reason to do this. We can take an opportunity and potentially improve the lives of more than 30,000 people while at the same time keeping our vacation dollars at home or we could avoid doing something because its hard and keep having Canadians vacationing in Cuba, DR, Mexico and dozen other locations and export their vacation dollars there,

Edited February 10, 2013 by Signals.Cpl

[Signals.Cpl]

I know people who just travelled to Florida, flight and accommodations in a gated community resort for $550 each. Florida is also a very different type of vacation then a resort too, and they have a big population with an economy that isn't based solely on tourism. Hawaii is a good point though, but it is an expensive vacation. My point is that the people who travel to Cuba or Dominican Republic are getting an all inclusive vacation for ~$1000, could that be done in Turks and Caicos with a $10 minimum wage? Could they compete with Hawaii?

It could be done, make some attractions and provide a secure, safe vacation and Canadians will go. Right now Mexico is a virtual warzone and not safe for tourists as seen in the gang rape of 6 Spanish women, Cuba is one step away from becoming unaffordable if Americans start vacationing there so if Canada has its own vacation spot we can keep our vacationers in Canada at the same time though we could also compete for more tourist dollars.

[shortlived]

IF THEY WANT IT YES!

It will be mutually beneificial. Province in the Caribean, WIN.

TOURISM TO THE ISLAND WIN!

There is absolutely no reason not to.

They get a strong dollar at minimum costs....

they would likely also benefit from increased business activity.

Althogh the term "join federation" should be used instead of unilateral annexation.

There could be two caribanas in Canada!

The economic inputs under Canadian industry to the region will be beneifical.

It might be good to get the UK's position on it though.

It seems rare that the Queen of the UK actually stepped in an revoked self representative government over corruption.. yet nothing here in Canada?

Its self rule was revoked over " a "high probability of systemic corruption or other serious dishonesty" I don't get it... how is Canada still self ruling?

Edited February 10, 2013 by shortlived

[bush_cheney2004]

Why not just "annex" Cuba instead...a much bigger vacation paradise !

[Guest Derek L]

Hawaii is unique - no place like it nearby. T&C is one of many identical tourist destinations with 1000km. Canadians might like the idea of vacationing in Canadian territory but Americans and Europeans would not care.

Yet they vacation in a British Territory......

http://www.labour.tc/go/en/questions--page.html

From this site, the say the minimum wage is $5/hr, only a few dollars less an hour then in most States….What is it in Canada?

[Guest Derek L]

A shorter distance makes a huge difference. 70K+ refugees cross the Mediterranean each year and land in Greece and Italy.

Is it a problem with the Bahamas?

[Guest Derek L]

I know people who just travelled to Florida, flight and accommodations in a gated community resort for $550 each. Florida is also a very different type of vacation then a resort too, and they have a big population with an economy that isn't based solely on tourism. Hawaii is a good point though, but it is an expensive vacation. My point is that the people who travel to Cuba or Dominican Republic are getting an all inclusive vacation for ~$1000, could that be done in Turks and Caicos with a $10 minimum wage? Could they compete with Hawaii?

I haven’t been for years, but most of the costs are associated with airfare.

[Guest Derek L]

nice travel advisory!

considering TCI's direct formal tie to the UK and the EU financial outlay supporting TCI, I'm a bit confused where the presumed "annex" comes in. Apparently, the UK frowns upon sovereignty grabs (see the Falklands!).

Ultimately as a British Overseas territory, the final say would be with the locals if a referendum took place.

[cybercoma]

I don't really see the net benefit here.

[waldo]

Ultimately as a British Overseas territory, the final say would be with the locals if a referendum took place.

like I said... "see the Falklands"... the Falkland Islands... the 'British Overseas territory' of the Falkland Islands.

[Guest Derek L]

like I said... "see the Falklands"... the Falkland Islands... the 'British Overseas territory' of the Falkland Islands.

Yes, I know all about them, what's your point?

[waldo]

here, read it again: "I'm a bit confused where the presumed "annex" comes in. Apparently, the UK frowns upon sovereignty grabs (see the Falklands!)"

[Signals.Cpl]

here, read it again: "I'm a bit confused where the presumed "annex" comes in. Apparently, the UK frowns upon sovereignty grabs (see the Falklands!)"

Thats because the people in the Falkland Islands want to stay British rather than Argentinian, the suggestion is a mutualy agreed upon union rather then a military invasion.

[Argus]

here, read it again: "I'm a bit confused where the presumed "annex" comes in. Apparently, the UK frowns upon sovereignty grabs (see the Falklands!)"

I wouldn't think the UK would care one way or another as long as the islanders want it.

[Argus]

Using federal transfers to the territories as a guide it would cost between 1 and 2 billion a year to maintain the territory.

While the population is roughly the same as the Yukon I think we'd not face the cost of keeping house in a harsh land where every stick of furniture and bite to eat had to be flown or trucked in.

This does not include transition costs.

Current tax revenues in the T&C are about $200 million so that would not offset the transfer much.

But bringing them up to our standard of living would increase tax revenue. Greater salaries equals higher taxation.

The location of the T&C would make it a lot easier for economic refugees from places like Haiti and Cuba to land in "Canada" and the right to access the funds that come with the charter protected rights granted to refugees.

We would have to make special provision for this, I agree. There isn't so many refugees dropping into places like Bermuda and the Bahamas because they'd be sent right back, and that's what we'd need to do there.