bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) The hits just keep on coming.....wanna play the "dead last" game....well do 'ya ? Canada's ER wait times among world's worst Overcrowded emergency departments in Hamilton show why Canada has been found to have the worst emergency department waits of any developed country. The average wait for a Canadian patient is longer than four hours, according to a Canadian Institute for Health Information report released Thursday. That is 19 per cent higher than the average of 11 international comparators. Canadians are needlessly suffering....doesn't anybody here care ? Patients describe the waits as “sad and stressful.” “I was scared to death,” said Joan Bishop of Dundas about her 51-year-old son waiting 14 hours at a Hamilton ED to have his appendix removed after coming in by ambulance on Oct. 29. He spent one week in the intensive care unit after surgery. “It got to the point that he was in such pain it was unbearable,” said Bishop about the wait. “There wasn’t a bed (in the ED) that wasn’t full and there were people in hall. It was just like a third world country, not Canada. The system has something dreadfully wrong with it.” http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2264985-canada-s-er-wait-times-among-world-s-worst/ Taxpaying Canadians are still waiting and waiting and waiting for care they have already paid for....or maybe not. When it comes to waiting for health care, Canada is last in line http://www.macleans.ca/politics/when-it-comes-to-waiting-canada-is-last-in-line-2/ Edited June 11, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 The hits just keep on coming.....wanna play the "dead last" game....well do 'ya ? Canada's ER wait times among world's worst Overcrowded emergency departments in Hamilton show why Canada has been found to have the worst emergency department waits of any developed country. The average wait for a Canadian patient is longer than four hours, according to a Canadian Institute for Health Information report released Thursday. That is 19 per cent higher than the average of 11 international comparators. Canadians are needlessly suffering....doesn't anybody here care ? Patients describe the waits as “sad and stressful.” “I was scared to death,” said Joan Bishop of Dundas about her 51-year-old son waiting 14 hours at a Hamilton ED to have his appendix removed after coming in by ambulance on Oct. 29. He spent one week in the intensive care unit after surgery. “It got to the point that he was in such pain it was unbearable,” said Bishop about the wait. “There wasn’t a bed (in the ED) that wasn’t full and there were people in hall. It was just like a third world country, not Canada. The system has something dreadfully wrong with it.” http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2264985-canada-s-er-wait-times-among-world-s-worst/ Taxpaying Canadians are still waiting and waiting and waiting for care they have already paid for....or maybe not. When it comes to waiting for health care, Canada is last in line http://www.macleans.ca/politics/when-it-comes-to-waiting-canada-is-last-in-line-2/ Naw. You win the dead last game hands down. Quote
waldo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 the great wait time deflector strikes again! Anything to avoid acknowledging the plethora of American studies highlighting the comparative American Health Disadvantage... the comparative "dead last" positioning of the United States health care system and health outcomes for Americans. Canadians requiring emergency care/treatment/surgery do not wait... within the Canadian wait times, prioritization is given to degrees of urgency... unlike those millions of Americans without insurance and no ability to pay, unlike those millions of Americans who forego medical care simply because they can't afford it - none of those millions of Americans... "ever wait for something that's never coming"! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 It is so bad for Canadian wait times, the provinces can't even meet their own self serving but oh so pathetic wait time benchmarks. But at least it has hired good contractors and spent top dollar for snappy wait time web sites. World's fastest access to a wait time web site. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 That's one of the reasons the USystem gets costly. Lot's of people can't go and get that ache or pain seen to, because they can't afford it. Unfortunately too often that ache or pain turns into something serious, and now it gets really expensive, and all too often deadly, when it could have been nipped in the bud. Quote
waldo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 That's one of the reasons the USystem gets costly. Lot's of people can't go and get that ache or pain seen to, because they can't afford it. Unfortunately too often that ache or pain turns into something serious, and now it gets really expensive, and all too often deadly, when it could have been nipped in the bud. yes! That's a key point brought forward in a couple of the studies critical of the American health care system and health outcomes... millions of Americans have no concept of preventative care... no ability to avail themselves of regular medical care. Of course, this means nothing to the wait-time deflector... the wait-time deflector, apparently, doesn't consider those persons as real Americans! . Quote
waldo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 a waldo fast fact: per one of the studies the wait-time deflector deflects from: "The US spends more on health care than the next 10 biggest spenders combined: Japan, Germany, France, China, the U.K., Italy, Canada, Brazil, Spain, and Australia..... yet the US ranks last in health and mortality when compared with 17 other developed nations." Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 Wait times in Ontario....the best that Canada has to offer ???? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 c'mon wait-time deflector... that's a graphic with 2010 data! While you're getting current with Canadian wait times, don't hesitate (as you are) to present U.S. wait times for the equivalent procedures. Is there a problem you continue to refuse to do so... is there a reason you won't... or can't... provide U.S. wait times? Why continue your blowhard act... why continue to bloviate over Canadian wait times? c'mon, step up and provide your claimed country's wait times. until you do so, you're just a wait-time deflector continuing to avoid acknowledging your claimed country's comparable dead-last health care system/health outcomes. Dead last! Quote
waldo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 about those wait-time deflections concerning Canadian wait times: What other nationals think about this is completely irrelevant. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 I guess the difference between the basic concept of "them that has, get's" as oppopsed to an equal share for all, is hard for some to comprehend. Especially among "them that probably have" Quote
cybercoma Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 three of these guys are on ignore You wouldn't know it. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 You wouldn't know it. ??? "This post is hidden because you have chosen to ignore posts by (insert name)" These members are ignored for sending other members and I several personal attacks through the notifications feature. Per moderator direction, they are to be reported and ignored. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
waldo Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 time for the waldo to more completely showcase the wait-time deflector's charade, blowhardiness and bluster... clearly, there was never any presumption that the wait-time deflector actually knows anything about Canadian wait times! Of course not... deflector's simply throw out graphics and links without ever offering comment/explanation.again, as stated several times now: Canadians requiring emergency care/treatment/surgery do not wait... within the Canadian wait times, prioritization is given to degrees of urgency... unlike those millions of Americans without insurance and no ability to pay, unlike those millions of Americans who forego medical care simply because they can't afford it - none of those millions of Americans... "ever wait for something that's never coming"!so... 6 posts back the wait-time deflector just drops another of his deflecting graphics, supposedly representing Ontario wait times, ... and then he runs away after his dropped "ta da"! Notwithstanding the graphic comes from an American blogger and it claims to present 2010 data... just what is that data saying... what's it about? Of course, the wait-time deflector is well aware of the Canadian national wait times interactive website... it's been presented many times over through an assortment of MLW threads... which begs the question why the wait-time deflector didn't simply refer to it, didn't seek (more) accurate/current data? In any case, the waldo did, also focusing on Ontario and decided to look at some of the presented data... I thought to initially pick a couple of surgeries... and see what I find. That prostate cancer one.... oh my, that can be a nasty one (anecdotally, one of my relatives died of it)... let's investigate that one: - the Canadian interactive wait-time website presents 2 numbers for prostate surgery within Ontario: 1 - 35 days, 50% of patients are treated within 35 days &2 - 84 days, 90% of patients are treated within 84 days c'mon waldo! 35 days for prostate cancer surgery... let alone 84 days!!! now, emphasizing once again, patients requiring emergency care are not wait listed... and there's an evaluation facet within the wait list process aimed to prioritize need/urgency. In line with the stage of cancer a key determiner as to the aggressiveness of the prostate cancer... and associated risk in delaying surgery... is the result of a prostate tissue biopsy which is given in the form of a 'Gleason score': The results from a prostate biopsy are usually given in the form of the Gleason score. On the simplest level, this scoring system assigns a number from 2 to 10 to describe how abnormal the cells appear under a microscope:- A score of 2 to 4 means the cells still look very much like normal cells and pose little danger of spreading quickly.- A score of 8 to 10 indicates that the cells have very few features of a normal cell and are likely to be aggressive.- A score of 5 to 7 indicates intermediate risk. as difficult as it is to find any kind of American wait list information for comparison or reference, the crack waldo research team found a related American article (albeit 2005 dated... the datedness has no relevance to the thrust of the article)... [where doctors] analyzed the medical records of 926 men who underwent surgery between January 1989 and December1994. All of them had the same surgeon —Patrick C. Walsh, M.D. Some of these men were treated early — within two months —and others had surgery at three, six, nine months or even more than a year after diagnosis. The investigators found no significant difference in the long-term cancer control rates of these men. These findings were published in the Journal of Urology. “Patients can be reassured,” says Alan W. Partin, [M.D., Ph.D.,David Hall McConnell Professor of Urology and director of the Brady Urological Institute], “that there is no immediate urgency to perform surgery after a prostate cancer diagnosis, especially in men with stage T1c disease and biopsy Gleason scores less than 7.” yes... as the waldo keeps saying... patients requiring emergency care are not put on wait lists; within wait lists, there exists a prioritization based on urgency and risk assessment! just say no to the blowhardiness and bluster of the wait-time deflector! Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 13, 2014 Report Posted June 13, 2014 Canadians are still waiting...waiting...waiting...longer than Americans: Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 13, 2014 Report Posted June 13, 2014 I guess that ends this thread. haha I guess you spoke too soon. Another graph to study. I like the color scheme on this one. Quote
guyser Posted June 13, 2014 Report Posted June 13, 2014 I guess that ends this thread. hahaNaw, more troll stuff will come without a link or explaination. All the while ignoring what was asked. So typical and slimey, but the Mod loves this sort of shit. Quote
waldo Posted June 13, 2014 Report Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) I guess that ends this thread. haha apparently not! It seems the wait-time deflector has... more! Of course, since he's announced I'm (and at least 2 lucky other members) on his wait ignore list, he can at least present the facade of ignoring me... and that last post that completely trounched his wait-time deflecting charade. Again, no Canadian is put on a wait list in an emergency need, and within wait lists there exists a prioritization based on urgency and risk assessment! so... now, the wait-time deflector puts up a graphic related to appointment times... not surgery, appointment times. But we've already covered this, many times now... with the clear distinction between seeing a personal GP (if you have one) and, alternatively, simply going to a local walk-in clinic in Canada. In any case, once again, it's just a graphic with no details/reference... a graphic that doesn't address any specifics as to the makeup of the U.S. figure... doesn't distinguish what it includes. Does it include all categorizations of health coverage within the U.S., including a significant constrained complement of the 50+ million Americans on Medicaid... does it include all government and private insurers, etc.? but let me take the liberty in extending on the source of that graphic... Mother Jones, no less! Oh my, the wait-time deflector has crossed over to the 'progressive side'! So... what does the waldo find at Mother Jones concerning American wait times; why, he finds this gem: But today the Washington Post reports that in certain regions, waiting times to see a doctor in Canada are getting completely out of hand: Just six months ago, the clinic delivered same-day care to most callers, the gold standard from a health perspective. But in October the delays crept to four days, then 19 in November and 25 in December. In January, HealthServe temporarily stopped accepting new patients, and almost immediately 380 people put their names on a waiting list for when the crunch eases. Just six months ago, the clinic delivered same-day care to most callers, the gold standard from a health perspective. But in October the delays crept to four days, then 19 in November and 25 in December. In January, HealthServe temporarily stopped accepting new patients, and almost immediately 380 people put their names on a waiting list for when the crunch eases. Sorry. Did I say Canada? I meant North Carolina, of course, where more than a quarter of adults now have no health insurance: A steep rise in unemployment has fueled a commensurate increase in the number of people who do not have health insurance, including many middle-income families. "I used to be upper middle class," said Amy, who called HealthServe every morning for weeks before getting in to see Talbot.... "I haven't told anyone I'm coming here," she said, asking that her last name be withheld because she is embarrassed to be seeking discounted medical care. Best healthcare in the world, baby! as to what impact Obamacare has had/will have on the number of Americans without health insurance, the current estimated number that I read referenced in several places, has it still pegged at around ~15 million Americans without health insurance. And again, what impact will Obamacare have on existing American wait times... it most certainly isn't expected to improve them! Of course, the wait-time deflector can't leverage any reference to Obamacare bringing down the number of non-insured Americans... that would mean he'd have to admit Obamacare has had some degree of positive result! Can't do that... in any case, another gem article from the wait-time deflector's latest source: California has finally decided to lay down the law to HMOs: The regulations by the California Department of Managed Health Care, in the works for much of the last decade, will require that patients be treated by HMO doctors within 10 business days of requesting an appointment, and by specialists within 15. Patients seeking urgent care that does not require prior authorization must be seen within 48 hours. Yes, that's right. After seven years of negotiations, HMOs have finally agreed that patients shouldn't be kept waiting more than two weeks to see a doctor, and not more than two days for urgent problems. And that's for people who have insurance coverage. . Best healthcare in the world, baby, best healthcare in the world. Edited June 13, 2014 by waldo Quote
waldo Posted June 13, 2014 Report Posted June 13, 2014 Naw, more troll stuff will come without a link or explaination. All the while ignoring what was asked. So typical and slimey, but the Mod loves this sort of shit. is it trolling? I'm (somewhat) on the case... respectively soliciting response (in the 'Improvements' thread) from the board moderator as to a/the/his definition of trolling - still waiting; stay tuned! Quote
guyser Posted June 13, 2014 Report Posted June 13, 2014 - still waiting; stay tuned! Your great grandson might get an answer. None of us will, really.....6+ months and we still get questions of what we want as seen in the improvement thread . Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 14, 2014 Report Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) The growth rate in Canada's spending for wait time web site reporting in each province is greater than for actual health care. Being last is OK I guess as long as there is a web site to quickly tell patients how long they can expect to wait in Canada. Edited June 14, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted June 14, 2014 Report Posted June 14, 2014 The growth rate in Canada's spending for wait time web site reporting in each province is greater than for actual health care. Being last is OK I guess as long as there is a web site to quickly tell patients how long they can expect to wait in Canada. Is there a website that tells 'em how likely they are to go bankrupt in the US? Quote
waldo Posted June 14, 2014 Report Posted June 14, 2014 Your great grandson might get an answer. None of us will, really.....6+ months and we still get questions of what we want as seen in the improvement thread . in this particular case, I'm taking an optimist position. The moderator resurrected the Improvements thread in what I took as a genuine request for info... in that apparent spirit of openness I asked for a/his definition of a troll, of trolling - of course, I only did so after several others steered the subsequent discussion in that same troll/trolling direction. clearly, in my interpretation (in yours, as well) the wait-time deflector is acting like a troll... is trolling. However, we need a reference point to guide interpretation. I trust the board moderator will step forward and provide said reference point... as it's been asked for many times in the past and, as I'm aware, never been forthcoming. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 14, 2014 Report Posted June 14, 2014 (edited) Got cancer...get thee to the "last" place USA like many Canadians choose to do...here's why: Compared with 10 European countries, the U.S. spends more to treat cancer patients, but the U.S. has seen greater gains in survival for 11 of 13 cancers during a 16-year period, a new study shows.The research, published in the journal Health Affairs, estimated the value of the U.S. survival gains totaled $598 billion, or $43 billion annually. That is after subtracting higher U.S. spending, the authors said. The study compared U.S. healthcare spending and cancer survival rates between 1983 and 1999 with those of Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Norway, Scotland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Sweden and Wales. Edited June 14, 2014 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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