US dead last in health care

[On Guard for Thee]

Then why do you keep responding ? Canadians are waiting in queue for their promised national dream, but nobody told them they have to wait months or years for treatment that is "not an emergency". Most health care is not delivered in an ER setting, except maybe for underfunded provinces that lack proper facilities for the elderly, chronically ill, and those without the requisite gatekeeper (doctor) to the "national dream".

I just searched my state's web site for a comprehensive HTML wait time scoreboard....alas....none is to be found. But they do have a link to the Mayo Clinic, where some Canadians are getting treatment right now...they grew tired of waiting "north of the border".

Perhaps your state is embarrased to provide such a report.

[waldo]

the great deflector back to his past claims of counting Canadian license plates in the Mayo Clinic parking lot! While at the same time refusing to acknowledge the hundreds of thousands of Americans seeking health care outside the U.S..... whether due to cost, insurance denials, no insurance, capped insurance levels... OR existing U.S. waiting lists!

and still, the great deflector refuses to acknowledge the multitude of American studies showcasing the failed U.S. health care system and the failed state of U.S. health outcomes relative to the world's greatest expenditure of money providing comparative 'dead last' returns in relation to other respresentative countries.

and still, the great deflector refuses to provide any American wait list figures for elective surgeries.

[bush_cheney2004]

Still waiting for a Stanley Cup...and elective surgeries....in Canada:

These surveys find that waiting times vary substantially. While in some countries they are a major health policy concern, others report no significant waiting times at all. Waiting times to see a primary care physician or nurse in 2010 were low in most of the 11 countries covered by the Commonwealth Fund Survey, and only in Canada, Norway and Sweden did a significant number of patients have to wait for six days or more (Davis et al., 2010).

Waiting times for specialist consultations were also higher in Canada, Norway and Sweden, with 50% or more of survey respondents waiting at least 4 weeks for an appointment (Figure 6.8.1). In Germany, Switzerland and the United States, more timely access was provided. Waiting times for elective surgeries such as cataract removal or hip replacement also show substantial differences. In 2010, a considerable proportion of patients in Canada, Sweden, Norway, the United Kingdom and Australia reported waiting four months or more for elective surgery (Figure 6.8.2) (Davis et al., 2004, 2006, 2010; Schoen et al., 2010).

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/06/08/index.html;jsessionid=1rti7cbvap85v.x-oecd-live-01?contentType=&itemId=%2Fcontent%2Fchapter%2Fhealth_glance-2011-59-en&mimeType=text%2Fhtml&containerItemId=%2Fcontent%2Fserial%2F19991312&accessItemIds=%2Fcontent%2Fbook%2Fhealth_glance-2011-en

Edited June 10, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[On Guard for Thee]

Still waiting for a Stanley Cup...and elective surgeries....in Canada:

These surveys find that waiting times vary substantially. While in some countries they are a major health policy concern, others report no significant waiting times at all. Waiting times to see a primary care physician or nurse in 2010 were low in most of the 11 countries covered by the Commonwealth Fund Survey, and only in Canada, Norway and Sweden did a significant number of patients have to wait for six days or more (Davis et al., 2010).

Waiting times for specialist consultations were also higher in Canada, Norway and Sweden, with 50% or more of survey respondents waiting at least 4 weeks for an appointment (Figure 6.8.1). In Germany, Switzerland and the United States, more timely access was provided. Waiting times for elective surgeries such as cataract removal or hip replacement also show substantial differences. In 2010, a considerable proportion of patients in Canada, Sweden, Norway, the United Kingdom and Australia reported waiting four months or more for elective surgery (Figure 6.8.2) (Davis et al., 2004, 2006, 2010; Schoen et al., 2010).

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/06/08/index.html;jsessionid=1rti7cbvap85v.x-oecd-live-01?contentType=&itemId=%2Fcontent%2Fchapter%2Fhealth_glance-2011-59-en&mimeType=text%2Fhtml&containerItemId=%2Fcontent%2Fserial%2F19991312&accessItemIds=%2Fcontent%2Fbook%2Fhealth_glance-2011-en

Does your survey point out anywhere the people who lost their homes and life's savings in the process?

[waldo]

great deflector!!! Again, that's consults and appointments... wadda bout U.S. waiting times for elective surgeries inclusive of all government and private categories... particularly the 50 million+ Americans covered by Medicaid... or the ~15 million that still don't have medical insurance... or the 7 million in Massachusetts subject to "CommieCare Romneycare"... etc.. Perhaps the great deflector could also offer comment on what impact Obamacare is projected to have on those same wait times he refuses to provide. Is there a problem, great deflector?

wait time deflector!!! Deflect, deflect, deflect!

and by the by, that OECD reference carries this handy caveat: "Since there are no universally accepted definitions of waiting times, data derived from different sources may not be fully comparable." But as I said earlier, now a couple of times, the OECD holds up Canada as a model for countries to establish measures/processes for wait-time monitoring... to allow more representative country comparisons.

but c'mon great (wait-time) deflector, is there no U.S. source for elective surgery wait times? None? No sources whatsoever? Is there a problem?

[bush_cheney2004]

Well gee...if the darlings at the OECD say that Canada (and certain other nations) suck for wait times to get elective surgeries compared to the eeevil USA, then by golly, I believe 'em.

[BubberMiley]

My cousin with cancer and loads of money decided to try the Mayo Clinic after her options were exhausted in Canada. Twenty minutes after they took her $6000 for a consultation, they told her her options were exhausted and the 19 dermotologists she 6 oncologists she already visited in Canada were right, so they sent her home.

[waldo]

why does the great wait time deflector, deflect so... spend so, so, many cycles on wait times... yet refuses to supply any American sources detailing U.S. wait times, for comparative measure? C'mon, get out of that Mayo Clinic parking lot searching for Canadian license plates... try and find/provide some... any... American sourced U.S. wait times for elective surgeries. Is there a problem?

can't the great wait time deflector spare any cycles to offer comment concerning all the American studies finding 'dead last' results for U.S. healthcare/health?

[waldo]

My cousin with cancer and loads of money decided to try the Mayo Clinic after her options were exhausted in Canada. Twenty minutes after they took her $6000 for a consultation, they told her her options were exhausted and the 19 dermotologists she 6 oncologists she already visited in Canada were right, so they sent her home.

now that bites! I trust she at least got a wave from the great deflector as he counted her license plate!

[bush_cheney2004]

My not so rich sister had cancer too...she never had to even think about going to Canada.

[BubberMiley]

My condolences. I hope the Mayo Clinic didn't burn her too bad.

[bush_cheney2004]

They didn't, but she thought her life was worth more than a cheap used car. Maybe others want to save the money for their heirs.

[waldo]

...

hey now! If it's good enough for your Sarah!

We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada

[BubberMiley]

They didn't, but she thought her life was worth more than a cheap used car.

Most people do, but most people also think $6000 is worth more than a brief evaluation and "I have nothing new to offer." As it stands, it's a scam taking advantage of desperate people, your late sister excepted.

[On Guard for Thee]

...

hey now! If it's good enough for your Sarah!

We used to hustle over the border for health care we received in Canada

Oh so she doesn't jUST keep an eye on Russia!

[bush_cheney2004]

My sister is doing fine, and she doesn't miss the money. Funny how that works...huh ?

$6000 is chump change for a life threatening circumstance.

[waldo]

about those U.S. wait times... those the great deflector refuses to discuss/provide - (from a relatively dated 2007 article, speaking to that Commenwealth Fund survey):

Our wait times are low because many of us aren't getting care at all.

It's true, Americans do have short waits for non-elective surgeries. Only 4 percent of us wait more than six months. That's more than in Germany and the Netherlands, but considerably less than the Canadians (14 percent) or the Britons (15 percent). But our high performance on the waiting times only account for individuals who get the care they need. Our advantage dissipates when you see the next question, which asks how many patients skip care due to cost. And here, America is far worse than anywhere else.

In just the past year, a full 25 percent of us didn't visit the doctor when sick because we couldn't afford it. Twenty-three percent skipped a test, treatment, or follow-up recommended by a doctor. Another 23 percent didn't fill a prescription. No other country is even close to this sort of income-based rationing. In Canada, only 4 percent skipped a doctor's visit, and only 5 percent skipped care. In the U.K., those numbers are 2 percent and 3 percent. Few of our countrymen are waiting for the care they need, that much is true. But that doesn't mean they're getting it quickly. Rather, about a quarter of us aren't getting it at all.

Indeed, 19 percent of Americans were unable, or had serious problems, paying medical bills in the last year. Comparatively, no other country was even in the double digits. This is part of why we perform well on the waiting-times metric. In other countries, the disadvantaged wait longer for their care, and so show up in the data tracking wait times. In our country, they disappear from that measure, because they never get the care at all. You don't wait for what you're not receiving. So their wait times show up as "zero," when they should really be something akin to infinite. And would you prefer to wait four months for your surgery, or never get it at all?

[BubberMiley]

$6000 is chump change for a life threatening circumstance.

But it's not chump change for absolutely no help whatsoever, and no real attempt to help either. They did nothing to help save her life, but fortunately the Canadian National Dream has her drugs covered, her doctor fees paid, and she's been in remission for over a year---no thanks to the national scam down south.

[bush_cheney2004]

But it's not chump change for absolutely no help whatsoever, and no real attempt to help either. They did nothing to help save her life, but fortunately the Canadian National Dream has her drugs covered, her doctor fees paid, and she's been in remission for over a year---no thanks to the national scam down south.

Then why did she go in the first place ? Did she not have faith in the great national scam up north ? Telling this story only supports my contention that some Canadians will vote with their feet and wallet when it comes to health care.

She got her consultation and second opinion....it ain't free....not even in Canada.

Edited June 10, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

the U.S. healthcare system/U.S. health outcomes... "dead last" while still fronting jiggered wait times that don't include those Americans that can't pay medical care costs! "You don't wait for what you're not receiving"!!!

[waldo]

"great national scam up north"??? Must be quite the "great national scam down south" given those hundreds of thousands of Americans that travel outside the U.S. for medical care... hey, great deflector!

[BubberMiley]

Then why did she go in the first place ?

Maybe not, but after witnessing firsthand that they have nothing more to offer down south for $20,000 an hour, her faith has been renewed. Her feet are now voting to remain in Canada and she thanks God she has citizenship in a first-rate country that is willing to treat its citizens properly.

[bush_cheney2004]

Maybe not, but after witnessing firsthand that they have nothing more to offer down south for $20,000 an hour, her faith has been renewed. Her feet are now voting to remain in Canada and she thanks God she has citizenship in a first-rate country that is willing to treat its citizens properly.

But she was more than happy to hedge her CHA bet in the USA. Typical.....can't say I fault her given the circumstances. $6000 is more than fair for a battery of tests and consultation about treatment options at Mayo. There is no shortage of more Canadians coming to the Mayo Clinics.

But your story does highlight what I believe is a Canadian expectation about health care that undermines performance and funding....they want to pay nothing.....not even the damn parking ramp fees ! They think taxes cover it all...as in "free".

Edited June 10, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

and it just continues... wait times and the relatively minisclue number of Canadians travelling to the U.S. for medical care: the 2 mainstays of the great deflector... anything to avoid acknowledging/discussing the multitude of provided 'by Americans, for Americans' study's, all speaking to the comparative American health disadvantage as compared to other representative countries... all speaking to the highest cost expenditures for health care in the U.S. with accompanying 'dead last'/near the bottom/mediocre' health outcomes as compared to other representative countries.

[bush_cheney2004]

The USA has no universal health care access (to a wait list) mandate like Canada, and yet it still has better wait times for ER and elective procedures. Canada's is one of the most expensive, poorest performing universal access systems in the developed world.