Mass shooting

[punked]

Caught with it by who? A unarmed teacher or a armed police officer………..As to the shooter going after the armed officer, perhaps in some cases, but the dictum taught to police and military is the “Force Continuum”, in which the first rule is physical presence……….The sole school cop might end said incident or act solely as a way to slow said shooter allowing further police to arrive and school staff to evacuate students.

No the shooter who is only out to shoot a target is going to do somewhere else if he knows he is going to caught with the gun. IT IS PREVENTION DEREK! To bad the security failed here despite their best effort to be your poster boy they were the reason the gun made it to school in the first place. Now the questions remains how did this boy get the gun in the first place and could have measures on what you call gun control could have prevented that? Imagine instead of solving a gun problem with MORE GUNS we solved with "Only responsible gun for responsible people" what a world.

[punked]

And you would prefer waiting 15-20 minutes for police to arrive?

Do you know what the effects would look like in a crowded classroom if a shooter was using a shotgun with 00 buck, similar to the one used by Obama in his picture?

It doesn't matter most shootings are over in a matter of seconds. As we have seen from every example the police and security deal with the after math of a shooting. Might be nice to prevent the shooting in the first place though.

[Guest Derek L]

No the shooter who is only out to shoot a target is going to do somewhere else if he knows he is going to caught with the gun. IT IS PREVENTION DEREK! To bad the security failed here despite their best effort to be your poster boy they were the reason the gun made it to school in the first place. Now the questions remains how did this boy get the gun in the first place and could have measures on what you call gun control could have prevented that? Imagine instead of solving a gun problem with MORE GUNS we solved with "Only responsible gun for responsible people" what a world.

Go somewhere else? Like where, another “gun free zone”?

So you would support the mentally ill being put into the FBI database, hence allowing the NRA to support universal background checks?

[Guest Derek L]

It doesn't matter most shootings are over in a matter of seconds. As we have seen from every example the police and security deal with the after math of a shooting. Might be nice to prevent the shooting in the first place though.

So you concede that a 12 gauge shotgun or a semi-auto AR-15, can be equally as deadly in the hands of a nut? Good, leave the AR-15s alone.

[punked]

Go somewhere else? Like where, another “gun free zone”?

So you would support the mentally ill being put into the FBI database, hence allowing the NRA to support universal background checks?

I think if background checks are going to work they are going to need have all the information yes. I would say considering background checks prevent some people like felons now from getting guns maybe putting universal background checks should be started right away and there is no reason the NRA should not support them right now this second. Do you think half of all gun purchases not going through a background check is working?

According to "Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Firearms Traffickers," Department of the Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms (June 2000)

"The access to anonymous sales and large numbers of secondhand firearms makes gun shows attractive to criminals." (p. 17)

Why do you think this is good thing and why do you think there is any reason to not support universal background check this second?

[punked]

So you concede that a 12 gauge shotgun or a semi-auto AR-15, can be equally as deadly in the hands of a nut? Good, leave the AR-15s alone.

You will have to show how many mass shootings have been done with a 12 gauge first.

[Guest Derek L]

I think if background checks are going to work they are going to need have all the information yes. I would say considering background checks prevent some people like felons now from getting guns maybe putting universal background checks should be started right away and there is no reason the NRA should not support them right now this second. Do you think half of all gun purchases not going through a background check is working?

According to "Following the Gun: Enforcing Federal Laws Against Firearms Traffickers," Department of the Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms (June 2000)

"The access to anonymous sales and large numbers of secondhand firearms makes gun shows attractive to criminals." (p. 17)

Why do you think this is good thing and why do you think there is any reason to not support universal background check this second?

To clarify, you would support the NRA’s stance, like Gifford’s husband, on requiring the mentally ill to be listed within the FBI database? In doing so, you would take away the NRA’s cause for reservation on universal background checks……….What about enforcing the current 9000 federal gun laws, that VP Biden conceded they don’t, already on the books?

[punked]

To clarify, you would support the NRA’s stance, like Gifford’s husband, on requiring the mentally ill to be listed within the FBI database? In doing so, you would take away the NRA’s cause for reservation on universal background checks……….What about enforcing the current 9000 federal gun laws, that VP Biden conceded they don’t, already on the books?

How about this they support Universal Background now because they do stop criminals from getting guns at gun shows. How about that? BTW that isn't the NRA's argument against universal background checks. Even though stud after study says gun shows have criminals buying guns at gun shows.

You are putting words the NRA didn't say in their mouth. They do not support universal background checks and they wont there are no demands for them to support them. They are just against them end of story.

1.7 million people have been prevented from buying weapons due to background checks since 1999. to bad most those criminals and mentally ill can just go to a gun show to buy their guns for their crimes because the NRA thinks the answer is more guns.

Edited February 3, 2013 by punked

[Guest Derek L]

You will have to show how many mass shootings have been done with a 12 gauge first.

I did better, I provided the FBI stats on gun homicides earlier in this thread, of the gun homicides, rifles are less than 4%......

I will again revert back to pointing out your sides ignorance on the mater…………The ideal firearm for CQB is a shotgun, due in part to it’s inherent nature of shot pattern………Just two 2 3/4 00 shotgun shells can hold 18 steel or lead projectiles larger and more devastating then an equal amount of soft-point .223 rounds…..

In five seconds, this Auto-5 firing 00 will discharge 45 lead balls, all more powerful then a 30 round AR-15 mag:

http://youtu.be/se35y3PPu-g

Edited February 3, 2013 by Derek L

[Guest Derek L]

How about this they support Universal Background now because they do stop criminals from getting guns at gun shows. How about that? BTW that isn't the NRA's argument against universal background checks. Even though stud after study says gun shows have criminals buying guns at gun shows.

You are putting words the NRA didn't say in their mouth. They do not support universal background checks and they wont there are no demands for them to support them. They are just against them end of story.

1.7 million people have been prevented from buying weapons due to background checks since 1999. to bad most those criminals and mentally ill can just go to a gun show to buy their guns for their crimes because the NRA thinks the answer is more guns.

Did you watch the interview you linked to?

[WIP]

'American Sniper' author killed at Texas gun range

Ex-Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and one other man fatally shot, sheriff says

The motive for the shooting was unclear.

There are unconfirmed reports that Kyle and Littlefield were helping a veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder when they were shot.

If that part is on track, does it make any sense to anyone except for gun nut whackado's to take someone with PTSD to a gun range in the first place?

[punked]

Did you watch the interview you linked to?

I watched his congressional study. He said background checks wont stop bad guys from getting guns so he will never support them. It ends there. Again background checks have stopped 1.7 million people from a gun purchase so why not support universal background checks now? Oh because you will never support them got it.

[punked]

'American Sniper' author killed at Texas gun range

Ex-Navy SEAL Chris Kyle and one other man fatally shot, sheriff says

The motive for the shooting was unclear.

There are unconfirmed reports that Kyle and Littlefield were helping a veteran with post-traumatic stress disorder when they were shot.

If that part is on track, does it make any sense to anyone except for gun nut whackado's to take someone with PTSD to a gun range in the first place?

Good guy with a gun loses again.

[Guest Derek L]

I watched his congressional study. He said background checks wont stop bad guys from getting guns so he will never support them. It ends there. Again background checks have stopped 1.7 million people from a gun purchase so why not support universal background checks now? Oh because you will never support them got it.

So you didn't watch the interview you linked to?

[punked]

So you didn't watch the interview you linked to?

I think what the NRA said last week in the congressional hearing under oaths has a little more weight then what they say on a talk show. Maybe that is just me. They said in that congressional hearing background checks can't stop bad people from getting guns so they wont support them there. So there goes that argument. Now let me ask you if we could expand background checks tomorrow to all gun sales you would not support that?

[Guest Derek L]

Good guy with a gun loses again.

Sure, and good guy's with guns do lose at times to the mentally ill:

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/baddayatbarrhead/

[punked]

Sure, and good guy's with guns do lose at times to the mentally ill:

http://www.cbc.ca/fi...ddayatbarrhead/

Maybe we could pass some sort of gun to prevent that. No wait the NRA is against any new gun laws.

I think Canada has a lot less gun deaths due to culture and legal differences. Just checked I am right. You might not wait to point to Canada for your example because it only supports what you are against. Gun regulation works

Edited February 3, 2013 by punked

[Guest Derek L]

I think what the NRA said last week in the congressional hearing under oaths has a little more weight then what they say on a talk show. Maybe that is just me. They said in that congressional hearing background checks can't stop bad people from getting guns so they wont support them there. So there goes that argument. Now let me ask you if we could expand background checks tomorrow to all gun sales you would not support that?

The interview is just three hours old..........and likely seen by a great many more people then the Congressional hearing and put's context into their stance..........As was mentioned by Gaby Gifford’s husband, her shooter had a background check on his purchase……..Where it failed was that his mental illness history was never released to the FBI, and if it had of been, he’d never have been approved a purchase………..What is also telling, is that when someone is rejected by the FBI background checks, due in part to either a criminal past/condition release or mental health condition, there is no follow up by law enforcement of the perspective gun purchaser……….

[Guest Derek L]

Maybe we could pass some sort of gun to prevent that. No wait the NRA is against any new gun laws.

I think Canada has a lot less gun deaths due to culture and legal differences. Just checked I am right. You might not wait to point to Canada for your example because it only supports what you are against. Gun regulation works

The NRA isn’t against new laws, they would like to also see the current laws enforced……….Just as the current background check system was the proposal put forth by the NRA as an amendment to the Brady Bill.

And where have I stated I’m against Canada’s current licensing procedures? I’ve even suggested a similar requirement be put forth at the State or county level in the United States, thusly nullifying the requirement for background checks with firearms purchases.

[punked]

The NRA isn’t against new laws, they would like to also see the current laws enforced……….Just as the current background check system was the proposal put forth by the NRA as an amendment to the Brady Bill.

So we agree the NRA should drop their opposition to universal background checks right now?

[Shady]

So we agree the NRA should drop their opposition to universal background checks right now?

Yes, I agree with that. I think most NRA members agree with that. Unfortunately, their leadership is out of touch with the members of their organization.

[Guest Derek L]

So we agree the NRA should drop their opposition to universal background checks right now?

At such time as mental health data will be included into the FBI database………..Without doing so, nothing will change in regards to the mentally ill’s ability to legally purchase a firearm.

[punked]

At such time as mental health data will be included into the FBI database………..Without doing so, nothing will change in regards to the mentally ill’s ability to legally purchase a firearm.

Why should felons not be prevented from buying guns? You think because some mental health data is missing from the data base that that means felons should get free range to buy guns? That is seriously your argument. 1.7 Million people have failed background checks trying to buy guns. Many of those people just wander off and guy them at gun shows. You are ok with this because some data is missing from the data base?

I ask again. Do you or do you not support universal background checks that we know work. We can continue to expand the database but if it isn't checking people what is the point. BACKGROUND CHECKS NOW!

[Guest Derek L]

Why should felons not be prevented from buying guns? You think because some mental health data is missing from the data base that that means felons should get free range to buy guns? That is seriously your argument. 1.7 Million people have failed background checks trying to buy guns. Many of those people just wander off and guy them at gun shows. You are ok with this because some data is missing from the data base?

I ask again. Do you or do you not support universal background checks that we know work. We can continue to expand the database but if it isn't checking people what is the point. BACKGROUND CHECKS NOW!

Can you prove that they buy their guns at gun shows?

“The gun show loophole myth”, or the “40%” number thrown about by the administration includes ~30% of people that obtain their firearms from a family member or friend, and 3 % from a mail order purchase (That back then required a background check) with only 4% of guns purchased at gunshows and 5% listed as other……

So you would require that if I bought a deer rifle for my father for Christmas, we should have a background check run prior?

table #5 shows the gun purchase data:

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

And the background checks, as current in the United States, don’t work, ask Gaby Gifford.

[punked]

Can you prove that they buy their guns at gun shows?

“The gun show loophole myth”, or the “40%” number thrown about by the administration includes ~30% of people that obtain their firearms from a family member or friend, and 3 % from a mail order purchase (That back then required a background check) with only 4% of guns purchased at gunshows and 5% listed as other……

So you would require that if I bought a deer rifle for my father for Christmas, we should have a background check run prior?

table #5 shows the gun purchase data:

https://www.ncjrs.go...iles/165476.pdf

And the background checks, as current in the United States, don’t work, ask Gaby Gifford.

Already provided a study by the AFT from 2000 showing criminals get guns at gun shows.

So now you are against background checks glade you dropped the act just like the NRA did. They are against universal background checks. I will quote the section from that AFT I ALREADY LINKED!

"A prior review of ATF gun show investigations shows that prohibited persons, such as convicted felons and juveniles, do personally buy firearms at gun shows and gun shows are sources of firearms that are trafficked to such prohibited persons. The gun show review found that firearms were diverted at and through gun shows by straw purchasers, unregulated private sellers, and licensed dealers. Felons were associated with selling or purchasing firearms in 46 percent of the gun show investigations. Firearms that were illegally diverted at or through gun shows were recovered in subsequent crimes, including homicide and robbery, in more than a third of the gun show investigations."

There we go BACKGROUND CHECKS NOW!