Nuclear Winter as a solution to stop global warming

[login]

So I've read that putting reflective particles into the air could stop global warming --- also it seems that there were cooling periods caused by nuclear fallout?

Discussion point?

[Bonam]

You can also stop the spread of someone's cancer by killing the individual. Sometimes the cure is worse than the ailment.

[login]

You can also stop the spread of someone's cancer by killing the individual. Sometimes the cure is worse than the ailment.

I forgot to add I like warm weather.

Really say 50 yearse from now is Global warming going to be worse than nuclear winter?

What is better flooding the worlds major cities or needing to use hydroponics?

What are the effects of nuclear winter anyway?

Saga concluded that smoke and dust produced by a catastrophic nuclear war would cause rapid drops in temperature and precipitation, block sunlight, and threaten agriculture worldwide for at least a year. ... In the 150 Tg scenario, black carbon particles spread quickly across the upper stratosphere and produce “a long-lasting climate forcing” that would last for more than a decade and affect both the Northern and Southern hemispheres. Among the effects would be a 45% global average reduction in precipitation and a global average surface cooling of –7°C to -8°C, which would persist for years. By comparison, the scientists remind us, “the global average cooling at the depth of the last ice age 18,000 years ago was about 5°C,” which would be “a climate change unprecedented in speed and amplitude in the history of the human race.” At the extremes, people in North America and Eurasia would experience cooling of more than -20°C and -30°C respectively.

So it seems that striking the right balance could do it. If 150 Tg does -8°C than would 25 Tg do 1 degree?

You are probablty right it is a bit like cutting an organ out or amputation to stop the spread of cancer.

But what if it was done in space or the moon instead so that moon dust blocked some sun instead of devstating earth?

There is already a radiation belt out there.

Sagan has words on this too

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Project_A119

ps I like warm weather... just the oceans would get so dirty if all the coastal cities flooded.

Edited December 11, 2012 by login

[The_Squid]

Discussion point?

There's nothing to discuss. Your entire premise of nuclear winter to combat warming is simple minded and childish.

[Bonam]

What are the effects of nuclear winter anyway?

Nuclear winter is caused when nuclear detonations disperse large amounts of particulates into the atmosphere. Individual nuclear explosions put only a relatively small amount of dust and particulates into the atmosphere. To produce a sufficient effect to substantially alter worldwide temperatures (say by a few degrees), you would need thousands of high yield nuclear explosions. The problem is all that dust and particulates in the atmosphere would be radioactive, and people would breath it in and die. Additionally, the settling time (for the particulates to get back on the ground out of the atmosphere) is at most a few years, so to provide a long term counteraction to global warming, you would need to repeat the thousands of nuclear explosions every few years, making the surface of the planet uninhabitable to all but the most resilient lifeforms (mostly simple single cellular organisms, a few types of insects, etc).

As I said, the cure is much worse than the ailment.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Bonam

[DogOnPorch]

You'd be far better off trying some much less drastic things to get Dr Lovelock's theory off the ground. Plant a white flower....

[Guest Manny]

I know an old lady who swalowed a fly

[GostHacked]

There's nothing to discuss. Your entire premise of nuclear winter to combat warming is simple minded and childish.

It's just outright dangerous.

[GostHacked]

I know an old lady who swalowed a fly

I had read that story to my little cousin the other day. had not read it myself in years .. why did she send the bird, the cat, the dog, the goat, the cow down to get the fly? Never made sense then, makes less sense now.

[GostHacked]

So I've read that putting reflective particles into the air could stop global warming --- also it seems that there were cooling periods caused by nuclear fallout?

Discussion point?

It's called Geo-engineering, and the specific one you are talking about with reflective aerosol particles is called SMR , Solar Radiation Management.

[Wilber]

It's an interesting concept, the regulating sunlight in order to manage the earths temperature part, not the nuclear part. I don't think you can just blow the idea off, it actually may become necessary.

[DogOnPorch]

It's an interesting concept, the regulating sunlight in order to manage the earths temperature part, not the nuclear part. I don't think you can just blow the idea off, it actually may become necessary.

I wasn't kidding about the flower part. Lovelock suggested large swaths of different shade plants/flowers to reflect/absorb sunlight depending on what you wanted. Not sure how well it would work in practice.

[Guest Manny]

I had read that story to my little cousin the other day. had not read it myself in years .. why did she send the bird, the cat, the dog, the goat, the cow down to get the fly? Never made sense then, makes less sense now.

There's an important meaning there, Ask your little cousin what she thinks...

[Guest Manny]

I wasn't kidding about the flower part. Lovelock suggested large swaths of different shade plants/flowers to reflect/absorb sunlight depending on what you wanted. Not sure how well it would work in practice.

The purported best flower for this is... marijuana

[Mighty AC]

It's fascinating that some people have no problem with geo-engineering tactics, yet balk at the idea of replacing carbon based energy. Before we nuke chunks of the planet to fill the atmosphere with dust we may want to cease blowing up mountain tops to get the coal inside. If we do need to reflect sunlight we may want to start with something a little less drastic, like painting roof tops white.

[Bonam]

It's fascinating that some people have no problem with geo-engineering tactics, yet balk at the idea of replacing carbon based energy. Before we nuke chunks of the planet to fill the atmosphere with dust we may want to cease blowing up mountain tops to get the coal inside. If we do need to reflect sunlight we may want to start with something a little less drastic, like painting roof tops white.

Actually the real answer, if we needed to regulate sunlight, would be a sunshade or mirrors located in Earth-synchronous solar orbit just sunward of the L1 Lagrange point.

A sunshade on that scale could probably be built for $20-200 trillion, lower than the worst case estimates people make of the cost of either damage due to climate change or the costs of a drastic reduction in CO2 emissions.

[Guest Manny]

Actually the real answer, if we needed to regulate sunlight, would be a sunshade or mirrors located in Earth-synchronous solar orbit just sunward of the L1 Lagrange point.

A sunshade on that scale could probably be built for $20-200 trillion, lower than the worst case estimates people make of the cost of either damage due to climate change or the costs of a drastic reduction in CO2 emissions.

And no doubt you could easily collect this money, given the wonderful cooperation we have among peoples in countries of this world.

We coulda just shut the machine off twenty-thirty years ago, like some people said needs to be done. But NOOOO

[Bonam]

We coulda just shut the machine off twenty-thirty years ago, like some people said needs to be done. But NOOOO

What do you mean, "just shut the machine off"?

[Mighty AC]

Actually the real answer, if we needed to regulate sunlight, would be a sunshade or mirrors located in Earth-synchronous solar orbit just sunward of the L1 Lagrange point.

A sunshade on that scale could probably be built for $20-200 trillion, lower than the worst case estimates people make of the cost of either damage due to climate change or the costs of a drastic reduction in CO2 emissions.

Meh...I prefer the Monty Burns solution:

[dre]

Speaking of geo-engineering there was a project out here in BC this year that was done without government approval... The feds are pissed about it, but the idea shows some promise. They dumped a shitload of iron into the ocean off the coast here hoping to grow a huge phytoplankton bloom. They hope the bloom will sequestor CO2, and increase fish stocks.

Current estimates of the amount of iron required to restore all the lost plankton and sequester 3 gigatons/year of CO₂ range widely, from approximately 2 hundred thousand tons/year to over 4 million tons/year. The latter scenario involves 16 supertanker loads of iron and a projected cost of approximately €20 billion ($27 billion).^[

[Guest Manny]

I was meaning, back in the 1980's there was the first real push to raise public awareness of "green" technology. It was a fad for a while, but then died down and economics took first place. People have been talking about conservation for years and no one is listening. Now, sadly, all we have left to listen to is your futuristic ideas...

[Guest]

Speaking of geo-engineering there was a project out here in BC this year that was done without government approval... The feds are pissed about it, but the idea shows some promise. They dumped a shitload of iron into the ocean off the coast here hoping to grow a huge phytoplankton bloom. They hope the bloom will sequestor CO2, and increase fish stocks.

Uh oh, "TIMESCAPE".

Watch for a message from the future...

[The_Squid]

Speaking of geo-engineering there was a project out here in BC this year that was done without government approval... The feds are pissed about it, but the idea shows some promise. They dumped a shitload of iron into the ocean off the coast here hoping to grow a huge phytoplankton bloom. They hope the bloom will sequestor CO2, and increase fish stocks.

No, it's a scam perpetrated by the proponent.

http://metronews.ca/news/canada/426663/un-group-condemns-iron-dumping-off-b-c-coast/

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/25/iron-ocean-dump-haida-salmon_n_2019435.html

[GostHacked]

No, it's a scam perpetrated by the proponent.

http://metronews.ca/...-off-b-c-coast/

http://www.huffingto..._n_2019435.html

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=21702

Quite right. Russ George and his cohort had duped the population of haida Gwaii into supporting this project. These two idiots have also been banned from docking in over 15 ports in 5 or more countries for this is the same thing they have tried before.

The claim that they got the Canadian government's approval has turned out to be 100% false. Their other claims that other governments allowed them to do the same is also false. These two guys need to be locked up.

120 tonnes of iron sulphate was sprinkled into the ocean to promote plankton bloom. On the notion to have fish stocks return to a level where they can make the claim of sustainability.

Most of these experiments that are taking place should not be done at all unless international consent from many countries approve. Any geo-engineering project will have eventual global implications. We don't need to be mucking with the weather/air/oceans like this.

[dre]

I guess we will know the year after next.