First nations patiences waning

cybercoma · December 15, 2012

So, you've been to their caucus meetings, I'm assuming.

What does the Conservative caucus meetings have to do with the cabinet? That's the problem. MPs at one time were more independent and the backbench would vote against the government to keep them accountable to the party base or because it was in the interests of their constituents. WIth this iteration of the Conservative party, that doesn't happen anymore. The backbench is nothing more than a bunch of lapdogs, reading the PMO's scripts, and rubber stamping anything the cabinet puts forward. Why even have parliament sit? The PMO can just write everything, have the GG sign off on it and away we go.

cybercoma · December 15, 2012

I guess that means that, as a whole, they like what he's done and is doing for the party. If enough of them didn't like what he's doing, they'd band together and abandon him. This is not the case, and so your pathetic/ridiculous claims have about as much merit as dog crap on a sidewalk.

Pathetic and ridiculous, eh? gfys.

December 15, 2012

Shouldn't that just be gfy? Isn't "yourself" just one word?

Smallc · December 15, 2012

What does the Conservative caucus meetings have to do with the cabinet?

Ummm, that's where the party decides its position....they have as a whole far more policy power than the cabinet. If enough Conservatives don't like something, it won't happen.

bush_cheney2004 · December 15, 2012

Shouldn't that just be gfy? Isn't "yourself" just one word?

Bonam · December 15, 2012

Making people in a society equal is genocide, now?

The word genocide has lost most of its meaning as people like jacee throw it around to describe pretty much anything they don't like.

jacee · December 15, 2012

Federal government once again fails to consult with First Nation, loses in court

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/12/14/mb-kapyong-barracks-first-nations-deal-winnipeg.html

Some Manitoba First Nations leaders are celebrating a Federal Court ruling on the sale of the former Kapyong Barracks site in Winnipeg, but it does not necessarily mean the land will be developed right away.

The court ruled on Thursday that the federal government failed to consult four First Nations, or even communicate properly with them, on the sale of the former Canadian Forces base.

"The court ruling, I think, certainly is a strong one," Chief Glenn Hudson of the Peguis First Nation told reporters on Friday.

"It reiterates our position that we need to be consulted, we need to be accommodated in terms of anything dealing with our rights."

…

Treaty land entitlement claims are intended to settle the debt owed to First Nations who did not receive all the land they were entitled to under historical treaties.

The 90-acre barracks site is located on some of Winnipeg's most valuable property, nestled between Tuxedo and River Heights, two affluent Winnipeg neighbourhoods.

Hudson said the First Nations would prefer to sit down with the government and work out a deal, ideally towards building a mixed commercial and residential development on the Kapyong land.

It seems to me that the Harper government has no plan, no intention of respecting the law, Aboriginal rights.

Instead they push through contradictory laws that can never override Aboriginal rights but will tie up the courts, cost unnecessary millions in taxpayer dollars, delay developments and cause protest ... like we are seeing now.

Edited December 15, 2012 by jacee

Smallc · December 15, 2012

The ruling says that first nations must be consulted. Hudson seems to be jumping the gun to assume that means ownership. It doesn't. An urban reserve isn't an answer in any city, and is the anathema of equality.

Edit: It probably will end with ownership though, given the right of first refusal.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Smallc

jacee · December 15, 2012

The ruling says that first nations must be consulted. Hudson seems to be jumping the gun to assume that means ownership. It doesn't. An urban reserve isn't an answer in any city, and is the anathema of equality.

I don't think this is about ownership unless Aboriginal title has been established.

It's about Aboriginal rights on traditional lands and the fact that the federal government must, but has not, consult with the First Nation(s) and accommodate their rights. It means developing an agreement with them. -input to development and revenue sharing.

The Crown's duty to consult and to accommodate Aboriginal rights is the key factor in the current protests. Are you familiar with that case law smallc?

Edited December 15, 2012 by jacee

Smallc · December 15, 2012

In this case, it's about a 1997 agreement that gives treaty 1 first nations the right of first refusal on surplus federal land within their traditional territory.

jacee · December 15, 2012

In this case, it's about a 1997 agreement that gives treaty 1 first nations the right of first refusal on surplus federal land within their traditional territory.

Good overview here:

It's a complicated story, involving arcane legal principles and multiple parties. However, it's impossible to get beyond the simple fact Friday's court decision involving the future of Kapyong Barracks is incredibly unflattering for the federal government.

In review, Ottawa spent more than $10 million over the past decade maintaining an abandoned military barracks and accompanying base housing while it fought four First Nations that wanted the first right to buy the land.

On Friday, a federal court decided Ottawa failed to meet its duty to consult with and offer the land to those First Nations. The kicker? The land and buildings were valued at $8.5 million. That valuation is a few years old, and the value could have risen.

Even so, it appears Ottawa spent more than the land was worth to keep it from falling into the hands of First Nations. If you're confused, you're in good company. Almost no one following this story can imagine a sane and rational explanation for this colossal waste of money. How did we get here?

...

The problem was that there was a legal obligation to offer the land to First Nations before other plans could be discussed or approved. A 1997 agreement with the Treaty One bands gave them the right of first refusal on surplus federal lands. Seems simple; offer the land to First Nations, contemplate offers, move ahead with redevelopment.

Unfortunately, Ottawa didn't fulfill that obligation. The federal court on Friday made it clear that although there was some contact between the federal government and the affected bands from 2001 to 2004, it did not warrant a thorough consultation. Later, from 2006 onwards, the court found Ottawa simply "ignored" the applicants and their claims, and transferred the land to the CLC.

more here ...

It appears to me that the feds are playing fast and loose with our money, dragging things through court to avoid their legal responsibilities. They don't seem to have the courage and integrity to address the issues upfront.

I suppose this is par for the course for all governments.

Afterall, it's only our money they're wasting.

Edited December 15, 2012 by jacee

Jerry J. Fortin · December 15, 2012

I think the natives win this one. They had first right of refusal, done. Screw the feds, roll over the title into a trust fund. Same with every other ruling from now on. The feds need to get this done, settle the damned claims and put it all into a single trust fund. Watch the damned fund like a hawk until all the little details are put to bed, and the fix has been implemented. When the idiots in charge of this mess from both sides realize that screwing around will cost more than getting it done we will see action.

jacee · December 15, 2012

I think the natives win this one. They had first right of refusal, done. Screw the feds, roll over the title into a trust fund. Same with every other ruling from now on. The feds need to get this done, settle the damned claims and put it all into a single trust fund. Watch the damned fund like a hawk until all the little details are put to bed, and the fix has been implemented. When the idiots in charge of this mess from both sides realize that screwing around will cost more than getting it done we will see action.

I have the same frustration: Our governments spend far more fighting in court and pretending to negotiate claims than it would cost to settle and get on with it.

Taxpayers lose. Lawyers win.

jacee · December 16, 2012

Another turn of events ...

Manitoba Tories oust youth wing president over racist social media comments

14, 2012 WINNIPEG - The head of the Manitoba Progressive Conservative party's youth wing was ousted Friday after posting an admittedly racist comment about aboriginals on his Facebook page.

Braydon Mazurkiewich was upset about a planned urban reserve in Winnipeg when he wrote that the site, which sits on a former military base, was "built for hardworking men and women of the military, not freeloading Indians."

New Democrats, Tories and non-partisans took to social media to denounce the 24-year-old's comment. Party brass stepped in and called it "not acceptable."

"The PC party president will be asking Brayden (sic) Mazurkiewich for his resignation. If he chooses not to resign, the party management committee will convene next week to deal with this issue," party president Ryan Matthews wrote in an email.

Mazurkiewich handed in his resignation and apologized for the comment, but maintained his opposition to the reserve in suburban Winnipeg.

"What I did write was racist and I do apologize ... but ... (blah blah blah ... more racist crap unfit to print)

…

One of the province's top aboriginal leaders applauded the Tories for taking swift action and called Mazurkiewich uninformed.

"It's very unfortunate that this youth ... has such a misinformed and miseducated perspective on the existence of indigenous people here," said Grand Chief Derek Nepinak of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs.

"I feel sorry for this young person ... and hopefully they get the help they need to overcome their misunderstandings."

The urban reserve planned for the Kapyong Barracks site is intended to be a mix of residential and commercial development to create jobs for First Nations who are still owed land from Treaty One, signed in 1871.

Kudos to the Manitoba Tories for taking swift and decisive action to distance themselves from this little white trash bottom feeder.

Edited December 16, 2012 by jacee

TimG · December 16, 2012

I have the same frustration: Our governments spend far more fighting in court and pretending to negotiate claims than it would cost to settle and get on with it.

The government must fight to avoid setting up tax free havens in urban centers no matter what the cost. If the natives are asking for fee simple title then I agree that the government should not stone wall and just let them buy the land. Edited December 16, 2012 by TimG

jacee · December 16, 2012

The government fight to avoid setting up tax free havens in urban centers no matter what the cost.

Why?

Lots of institutions/organizations in our communities are tax free.

If the natives are asking for fee simple title then I agree that the government should not stone wall and just let them buy the land.

I'm not sure of the details ... isn't this land owing for land taken?

TimG · December 16, 2012

Lots of institutions/organizations in our communities are tax free.

There is a huge difference between granting non-profit status to a charitable organization and creating a patch of land where any business can operate tax free. It is not a sustainable model and will lead to huge resentments and greater racism in the future.

I'm not sure of the details ... isn't this land owing for land taken?

Does not make a difference want the reason is. If the land held fee simple then the native bands are playing by the same rules as everyone else and there is absolutely no reason to deny them the land if they are entitled to it. If they want to make tax free haven in the middle of a city then that is a huge problem. Edited December 16, 2012 by TimG

jacee · December 16, 2012

There is a huge difference between granting non-profit status to a charitable organization and creating a patch of land where any business can operate tax free. It is not a sustainable model and will lead to huge resentments and greater racism in the future.

Racism is the problem of those perpetrating it, not the victims.

Does not make a difference want the reason is. If the land held fee simple then the native bands are playing by the same rules as everyone else and there is absolutely no reason to deny them the land if they are entitled to it. If they want to make tax free haven in the middle of a city then that is a huge problem.

Why?

http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1100100016331/1100100016332

Urban reserves offer residents economic opportunities that are generally unavailable in more remote areas. They give First Nation businesses the chance to establish themselves and provide employment and training opportunities. At the same time urban reserves can create jobs for Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people and contribute to the revitalization of the host municipality. There are now more than 120 urban reserves across Canada, established under the Additions to Reserve policy and Treaty Land Entitlement agreements.

...

A municipal servicing agreement is particularly important because it provides a fee for services such as water, garbage collection, police and fire protection, an amount which is generally equal to the amount the municipality would have collected through property taxes. Education tax loss and service agreements with affected school divisions must also be negotiated by the First Nation, including a mechanism for settling disputes.

The same sales tax exemptions that apply to reserves in rural areas also apply to urban reserves. Under current tax law, First Nations businesses located on reserve are required to collect provincial and federal sales tax and are subject to all the applicable taxes outlined by law or the servicing agreement negotiated with the municipality. Only registered Status Indians can take advantage of the sales tax exemption when purchasing goods and services on reserve land. The net effect for those individuals is having slightly more money to spend in the local economy.

I'm sure Winnipeg can deal with something that's already in place in 120 other locations.

Obviously not even the Manitoba Tories endorse such racism, so the perps are just loner losers ... like Braydon Maz... is today. You might not want to smear Winnipeggers by presuming to speak (trash) for them.

Edited December 16, 2012 by jacee

Smallc · December 16, 2012

Only registered Status Indians can take advantage of the sales tax exemption when purchasing goods and services on reserve land.

Were you not arguing the exact opposite a short time ago?

jacee · December 16, 2012

Were you not arguing the exact opposite a short time ago?

??? Not that I recall.

cybercoma · December 16, 2012

Kudos to the Manitoba Tories for taking swift and decisive action

+1

Something to give the Tories credit for.

Canuckistani · December 16, 2012

We give tax free status to charities. So Indigenous Peoples are charity cases now? Seems racist to assume that they need a special deal. Why can't they live their lives as the rest of Canadians do?

jacee · December 16, 2012

+1

Something to give the Tories credit for.

And I'm *thrilled* to be able to do so.

They wasted no time and made no excuses.

Smallc · December 16, 2012

??? Not that I recall.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but it wasn't you saying that First Nations businesses have no requirement to collect provincial and federal taxes on reserve from non native people?

TimG · December 16, 2012

I'm sure Winnipeg can deal with something that's already in place in 120 other locations.

They are a headache for local officials and make the cost of providing government more expensive because of the loss of the tax base. Governments should spending money to avoid setting them up - it will save money in the long run. However, there is no law that prevents a native run group from owning land with fee simple. If they wanted this land they should have asked for fee simple title - this is what the Musqeum band does in Vancouver.