F-35 Purchase Cancelled; CF-18 replacement process begins

[waldo]

It's an acquisition guide. Given that and the total figure given, it's reasonable to say that we're dealing with budgeted acquisition costs. The $9B figure is for the budgeted acquisition cost for the F-35. It's reasonable to assume then, that the F-35 makes up about 10% of the total budget for the project.

you're so reasonable with yourself! Monies for operations and maintenance in line with all those new shiny $100 billion toys ... those costs... where do they reasonably fit?

[Smallc]

Into the rest of the budget, where they belong, over the next 20 years, assuming no increase of decrease, DND will spend in the range of $400B.

[waldo]

Into the rest of the budget, where they belong, over the next 20 years, assuming no increase of decrease, DND will spend in the range of $400B.

good to know... wouldn't want you to attempt one of those same sly Harper Conservative moves in hiding the actual full costs.

[Smallc]

The full cost of DND programs was never hidden, you've just decided (along with others) to make it seem like some clandestine plan. You have yet to point me to any previous government project to be costed that way.

[cybercoma]

The full cost of DND programs was never hidden

Why was the Harper Government found in contempt of Parliament?

[segnosaur]

Why was the Harper Government found in contempt of Parliament?

Because it was a minority government, and the opposition parties wanted to pull a political stunt by bringing in a fairly meaningless (in a legal/procedural sense) contempt charge and dance around like schoolgirl ninnies saying "nah nah! you have a contempt charge!"

[waldo]

Because it was a minority government, and the opposition parties wanted to pull a political stunt by bringing in a fairly meaningless (in a legal/procedural sense) contempt charge and dance around like schoolgirl ninnies saying "nah nah! you have a contempt charge!"

uhhh, no sir! Harper Conservatives were found in contempt of Parliament for not supplying sufficient... and repeatedly requested documentation on the estimated costs of the F-35... as well as corporate tax cuts and proposed crime legislation.

[Derek 2.0]

ok, ok... I found "your source" Smallc:

oh my! This is more likely... than not. Imagine DND (through the Canadian Forces website) publishing something that doesn't factor in another departments coincident undertakings!

After looking at some of the undertakings in the policy sheet briefly, some programs appear to have popped out of nowhere (Tactical air defence and new minesweepers for the navy), some programs appear to have risen like the Phoenix after being publicly cancelled or shelved ( New rifle for the Rangers and a partial replacement for the TLAV fleet) and some appear to have completely vanished (MLRS, BHS and new sidearm’s)…….truly a bizarre document…….

From the naval sphere, it too reads as if the programs there will be pushed back also, so much so (if the projected timelines are taken as gospel), there will certainly be a major capability gap for the navy.

[Derek 2.0]

100 bil is very nice but which projects does that include, i mean the F-35 is slated at 45 bil, and the ships is costed at more than that, does not leave much left over....don't get me wrong it is a good start, provided it carries over to the next government...you know as well as i do that these things can change with one press conference....

This 100 billion figure appears to be only acquisition costs..

[Derek 2.0]

It's an acquisition guide. Given that and the total figure given, it's reasonable to say that we're dealing with budgeted acquisition costs. The $9B figure is for the budgeted acquisition cost for the F-35. It's reasonable to assume then, that the F-35 makes up about 10% of the total budget for the project.

Exactly, intended for industry.......And I agree, the costing numbers mentioned are only indicative of acquisition and direct sustainment costs….

[On Guard for Thee]

uhhh, no sir! Harper Conservatives were found in contempt of Parliament for not supplying sufficient... and repeatedly requested documentation on the estimated costs of the F-35... as well as corporate tax cuts and proposed crime legislation.

And don't forget, they also failed to provide the report indicating that Afghanistan detainees were turned over to the ANA were there was a likelihood of torture, which is against Canadian law. Quite a lot of contempt when you add it all up.

[Moonbox]

I made this thread. 168 pages! Neato!

[On Guard for Thee]

Shut Up!

[Derek 2.0]

I made this thread. 168 pages! Neato!

Once it's selected, I trust you'll edit the title for accuracy

[waldo]

This 100 billion figure appears to be only acquisition costs..

Exactly, intended for industry.......And I agree, the costing numbers mentioned are only indicative of acquisition and direct sustainment costs….

in the span of one post (and 5 minutes), without any other posts from anyone else in between, you went from an uncertain "appears" to a definitive "are"! What changed your mind/opinion?

[waldo]

Once it's selected, I trust you'll edit the title for accuracy

... so what of that RFP reference in the newly posted DND Acquistion Guide? Is there to be a competition... or not?

[Derek 2.0]

in the span of one post (and 5 minutes), without any other posts from anyone else in between, you went from an uncertain "appears" to a definitive "are"! What changed your mind/opinion?

My position is steadfast, the intent of the document in itself appears clear, the convergence starts with how it relates to both ongoing, proposed and since abandoned programs at the political level.

[Derek 2.0]

... so what of that RFP reference in the newly posted DND Acquistion Guide? Is there to be a competition... or not?

If the timeframe is to be taken as gospel, two (and possibly all three) of the touted “alternatives” will no longer be in production…..

[waldo]

My position is steadfast, the intent of the document in itself appears clear, the convergence starts with how it relates to both ongoing, proposed and since abandoned programs at the political level.

ya ya, as I pointed out/quoted... your two back-to-back posts belie your "steadfastiness"! And this reply of yours is 'gobbygook' in relation to my post you presume to reply to. Carry on.

[Derek 2.0]

ya ya, as I pointed out/quoted... your two back-to-back posts belie your "steadfastiness"! And this reply of yours is 'gobbygook' in relation to my post you presume to reply to. Carry on.

Are you unable to separate the two issues?

[waldo]

If the timeframe is to be taken as gospel, two (and possibly all three) of the touted “alternatives” will no longer be in production…..

ah yes, duly noted by many these last couple of days. Then again, it was member Smallc who highlighted the "CBC sources that claim the dates are wwwwwrong! In that vein and again, in regards the RFP mentioned, do you agree/understand/anticipate/expect that an actual competition announcement is forthcoming. In any case, the Super Hornet isn't going anywhere as the USN will fund it on it's own if needs be... and that sir, is a most prevailing opinion of all those bloggers you so decry (until you actually want to source them yourself, that is)!

[waldo]

Are you unable to separate the two issues?

are you ever able to answer direct questions?

[On Guard for Thee]

Hey anybody wanna throw a few bucks in the pot and start reproducing Herman Nelson heaters? If we buy F 35's there will be an expanding market as these "crates" don't like to be in cold wx.

[Derek 2.0]

ah yes, duly noted by many these last couple of days. Then again, it was member Smallc who highlighted the "CBC sources that claim the dates are wwwwwrong! In that vein and again, in regards the RFP mentioned, do you agree/understand/anticipate/expect that an actual competition announcement is forthcoming.

The dates appear “wrong” in more than one of the highlighted programs……As to an announcement, I do fully expect it sometime over the summer break (on a Friday afternoon)……..With that said, the possibility of punting the selection post-2015 is certainly there…….delay will only hurt the RCAF’s planned transition timeframe, but it wouldn’t be the first time political expediency took the front seat to DND’s needs.

In any case, the Super Hornet isn't going anywhere as the USN will fund it on it's own if needs be... and that sir, is a most prevailing opinion of all those bloggers you so decry (until you actually want to source them yourself, that is)!

And how will they do that? Bake sales and car washes? With the loss in the Brazilian competition, Super Hornet production will end in 2016.….

[Derek 2.0]

are you ever able to answer direct questions?

I did, perhaps not to your liking, but none the less.