Israel-Palestine 101

[DogOnPorch]

Heh...the one kid even has the safety on his AK-47 off and his finger on the trigger. Good range rules!

[Peter F]

Ha-ha-ha. What morons! here's another who mucked up the range rules: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/12/04/calgary-court-martial-verdict.html

Edited December 8, 2012 by Peter F

[Hudson Jones]

First you cry about the Mufti and terrorism while trying to minimize the history of Jewish terrorism which included two of Israel's former prime ministers.

Now you are trying to sell to everyone that indoctrination of war and guns only happens with the Arabs.

How does it feel to be such a hypocrite douche?

A few example of Jewish kids and the indoctrination.

[Guest American Woman]

Yeah...he fought back a bit...then just left it as a "fact". Hooray for Pallywood!

Yep. And now he's trying to make it sound as if I've done the same thing. I hope some here are finally seeing his true colors.

[DogOnPorch]

Yep. And now he's trying to make it sound as if I've done the same thing. I hope some here are finally seeing his true colors.

Hudson has resorted to calling me a female sanitary product.

How does it feel to be such a hypocrite douche?

Edited December 8, 2012 by DogOnPorch

[Guest American Woman]

Hudson has resorted to calling me a female sanitary product.

Looking at his response:

First you cry about the Mufti and terrorism while trying to minimize the history of Jewish terrorism which included two of Israel's former prime ministers.

Now you are trying to sell to everyone that indoctrination of war and guns only happens with the Arabs.

How does it feel to be such a hypocrite douche?

http://www.flickr.co...N03/8253628945/

http://www.flickr.co...N03/8254702392/

http://www.flickr.co...N03/8253628661/

http://www.flickr.co...N03/8253628463/

A few example of Jewish kids and the indoctrination.

Flickr photos - with no context - posted by "no real name given." We have no idea who is in the photos, who took the photos, if they were staged, where they were taken, what was actually going on, etc. Yet Hudson posts them as "a few examples of Jewish kids and the indoctrination" - while calling you a "hypocrite douche."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzlFPm7bymY

Edited December 8, 2012 by American Woman

[GostHacked]

I'm not sure how you got that other than by your knee-jerk hatred of me. But your need to cast me as your enemy gives you warmth and villainization makes your cause true. Enjoy your role.

What!!?? Doggy is offended when others makes comments to him as he does to others? Say it ain't so! Yea yeah I know, go hug a suicide bomber.

[Guest American Woman]

Irgun was branded a terrorist group by Britain, yet Israel got the yes vote for statehood.

Funny how you don't mind rewarding some terrorists with statehood, eh?

Not to downplay what Irgun did, but being branded a terrorist group by the country they were at war with is a bit different from the U.S., Canada, and the EU also branding Hamas a terrorist group; it's not just Israel branding Hamas a terrorist group. Furthermore, I don't see where the goal of Irgun was to single out and target and kill civilians - which is inclusive in the definition many apply when referring to "terrorism." I see this as the main difference between "freedom fighters" and "terrorists," and I think many would agree.

[Rue]

Once again we see this thread and forum being used to broadcast propoganda sites.

Why?

[GostHacked]

Once again we see this thread and forum being used to broadcast propoganda sites.

Why?

Why not throw in some of your own propaganda sites to balance it out?

[GostHacked]

Not to downplay what Irgun did, but being branded a terrorist group by the country they were at war with is a bit different from the U.S., Canada, and the EU also branding Hamas a terrorist group; it's not just Israel branding Hamas a terrorist group. Furthermore, I don't see where the goal of Irgun was to single out and target and kill civilians - which is inclusive in the definition many apply when referring to "terrorism." I see this as the main difference between "freedom fighters" and "terrorists," and I think many would agree.

Kind of like Al-queda was an enemy before and now seems NATO has snuggled up to them and give assistance to take down Ben-Ali, Gadaffi, Mubarek, and they are still trying to get Assad .....

Al-Queda are terrorists, and they are also freedom fighters. How DOES one group get both classifications?

[DogOnPorch]

Not to downplay what Irgun did, but being branded a terrorist group by the country they were at war with is a bit different from the U.S., Canada, and the EU also branding Hamas a terrorist group; it's not just Israel branding Hamas a terrorist group. Furthermore, I don't see where the goal of Irgun was to single out and target and kill civilians - which is inclusive in the definition many apply when referring to "terrorism." I see this as the main difference between "freedom fighters" and "terrorists," and I think many would agree.

Also...the British put several bullets into the real bad-ass, Stern, long ago. We literally have to go back to the WW2 days to find examples of Jewish terrorists. Arab terrorists? Let's check the news. You are correct that it was the British as well as Haganah that branded Irgun a terrorist organization. Posters with little knowledge of this situation like to paint Irgun as if they were, in fact, the same folks seeking statehood via the UN.

[Moonlight Graham]

in other words you got nothing to offer except a picture of a book...nothing that disputes the brief historical outline already supplied in the thread...

If I could post a pdf of the book, I would, smart-ass. Here's another hint: http://www.toronto.ca/ourtoronto/fall2010/servicesforresidents/images/article16_407.jpg

I'm not saying what is in the video is factually false, I'm saying it leaves out a lot. It offers almost no criticism of the Arab/Palestinian side. It's consciously biased toward one side. Just because a Jewish organization made it doesn't magically give it an objective spin. That's like saying Al-Qaeda and the Taliban are pro-Muslim/Arab and anti-West when in fact they have killed far more Muslims/Arabs than Westerners.

[Hudson Jones]

Looking at his response:

Flickr photos - with no context - posted by "no real name given." We have no idea who is in the photos, who took the photos, if they were staged, where they were taken, what was actually going on, etc. Yet Hudson posts them as "a few examples of Jewish kids and the indoctrination" - while calling you a "hypocrite douche."

You deny that those are Israeli children using weapons?

Interesting.

[Hudson Jones]

Let's learn more about what American Woman denies is happening.

How about a pregnant woman trying to get to the hospital:

It's become quite the sick culture.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Hudson Jones

[bud]

You deny that those are Israeli children using weapons?

Interesting.

don't waste your time with her. she's never interested in being truthful. she's only interested in doing what hasbara bots do: justify israel's actions in any way possible. she's not worth the effort. i can't be bothered to go and dig all the crap that she's been caught lying about but if you ever are curious about how far she will go into denying the obvious, check out her mosque at ground zero thread. i warn you though, it's many pages of people pointing at the obvious and her denying it.

[Hudson Jones]

This is another thing American Woman is in denial about and would rather people not talk about; Here is a sample of the treatment and torture of Palestinians by the IDF. The video goes back to the first uprising in the late 80's, early 90's.

Warning: The following video contains graphic images.

Quite ugly.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Hudson Jones

[Guest American Woman]

You deny that those are Israeli children using weapons?

Interesting.

That's truly how you interpreted my post? Interesting.

Since you obviously are unaware, "using weapons" and "being indoctrinated to fight Palestinians" are two different things (if those photos are even real). They are not synonymous. You're going to have to do better to support your claim than posting photos from Flickr without any context, without any names, without any dates, from "no real name given," just as I said.

Let's learn more about what American Woman denies is happening.

This is another thing American Woman is in denial about and would rather people not talk about;

I'd say you have enough on your plate posting about your own views, so don't presume to speak for me. You suck at it. Got it?

Edited December 9, 2012 by American Woman

[DogOnPorch]

That's truly how you interpreted my post? Interesting.

Since you obviously are unaware, "using weapons" and "being indoctrinated to fight Palestinians" are two different things (if those photos are even real). They are not synonymous. You're going to have to do better to support your claim than posting photos from Flickr without any context, without any names, without any dates, from "no real name given," just as I said.

I'd say you have enough on your plate posting about your own views, so don't presume to speak for me. You suck at it. Got it?

When you support what is essentially a continuation of Nazi ideals and policy, you often have to bend into a pretzel.

[GostHacked]

Zionism has parallels to Naziism.

[Hudson Jones]

That's truly how you interpreted my post? Interesting.

Since you obviously are unaware, "using weapons" and "being indoctrinated to fight Palestinians" are two different things (if those photos are even real). They are not synonymous. You're going to have to do better to support your claim than posting photos from Flickr without any context, without any names, without any dates, from "no real name given," just as I said.

The images were a response to DogOnPorch's image post.

Despite your demand, I don't think there is a need to post names and dates. The photos are self-explanatory.

I'd say you have enough on your plate posting about your own views, so don't presume to speak for me. You suck at it. Got it?

Your inability to acknowledge to obvious about Israel's occupation is obvious. If you want to acknowledge what I posted, then I will take it back. Got it?

[Rue]

The images were a response to DogOnPorch's image post.

Despite your demand, I don't think there is a need to post names and dates. The photos are self-explanatory.

Your inability to acknowledge to obvious about Israel's occupation is obvious. If you want to acknowledge what I posted, then I will take it back. Got it?

Now if you expect American Woman to answer your questions how about you answer some for a change.

Tell me, are you capable of stating Hamas is a terrorist organization? Are you?

Are you capable of saying you sympathize with its agenda to wipe out Israel and replace it with a Muslim state?

Do you believe in terrorism against Israel yes or no...do you denounce Hamas terrorism yes or no?

Do you deny being an employee of the Iranian government send to this forum to propogate?

You ask questions, now so do I. Are you prepared to answer?

Before you demand anyone answer your questions you answer mine.

See it works both ways-you don't get to come on this forum and demand a thing you won\t provide in reverse, This is not some stage you control. The dialogue is two way, not one way,

I again challenge you and Bud to acknowledge whether you are the same and whether your agenda is to express but one view on this board for a professional organization.

Now let's end your last attempt to distract, No one, not me, not American Woman, not one person who advocates for Israel's right to exist as a Jewish State denies Israeli defence forces and settlers are on the West Bank. For you to suggest that is patently

absurd.

If you want to play semantics with the word "occupation" go ahead. No one is taking the bait. That attempt to distract is over.

Now we look straight back at the script you and Bud originated on this thread and I ask-why-what do you think you proof providing

web sites presenting views from the Iranian government-what are you proving other than you want Israel wiped off the map?

Edited December 9, 2012 by Rue

[WIP]

That's truly how you interpreted my post? Interesting.

I had too many other things going at the time to bother posting a response, but you lost credibility with me back when you posted that sob story testimonial of an Israeli woman complaining about having to run to air raid shelter every time the air raid siren goes off! It never occurred to you that on the other side there are NO shelters! Which is precisely why the casualty figures end up 3 to 176 after the bombing campaign has ended. At best, Israel/Palestine is awash, because a nation that practices ethnic cleansing on a regular basis to expand its territories, can be the object of asymmetrical warfare if that's the only avenue left available to redress grievances. In other words, if you don't feel safe in your country, after they have refused to deal land for peace....including go so far as to be the ones who made Hamas what it is today, then it's time to move to a safer nation that doesn't steal territory from others!

[Rue]

Gost Hacked I now respond to you directly. You made the accusation I come on this forum with propoganda sites and inferred I engage in the same tactics asBud/Hudson Jones.

Be my guest put up or shut up. Provide one thread I initiated where I demanded people accept what I said as the only truth as Hudson and Bud do. Go on finish what you start.Show where I come on this forum and have initiated the use of sites to propogate for only one perspective Go on.

I have from time to time provided sources to counter the sources of others. I have never initiated on forum thread as they do with deliberate one sided views with rhetoric designed to inflamme. The sites I have used are journalist sites. Go on find one that insults Arab peoples or Muslims. Go on. Find one where the statements are designed to simply call out Muslims or Arabs terrorists.

Finish what you start. Produce the sites. Produce the threads I started depicting all Palestinians as terrorists.

I come on this forum to defend Israel's right to exist.Never once have I condemned excessive violence by anyone or hatred of Muslims or Arabs. Can you Hudson/Bud claim the same?

What you have done evidenced by your latest regurgitated Zionism has parallels to Nazism slur is to show you come on here to slur all Israelis and Jews.

Using the word "has parallels" does not couch your name Zionism is Nazism anti semitic slur but it shows exactly what you contribute to this dialogue-inflammatory name calling designed to insult not just Israelis, but all Jews who have had to survive Nazism.

Get it clear one more time you Sir do not tell me a child of holocaust survivors I parallel Nazis because I believe my people have a right to continue to exist as a political collective. Your accusation is a deliberate insult not just to the memory of those of us alive because of the grace of those who fought to survive the holocaust but everyone who died fighting Nazism.

It is a deliberate taunt against not just Jews, not just Zionists but everyone who stood up to Nazism. Y

ou can couch the attack on Zionists and you can couch the attack using the word parallel but your passive aggressive name calling is there for all to see-here I am and hear me loud and clear-I do not and will never apologize for supporting my collective existence in a state-you want to wipe me out, come try.

If we Jews are Nazis because twe want collective sufferage then necessarily Palestinians and Muslims are Nazis as well because they advocate the exact same thing. But you knew that right?. Y

ou being so logical with your name calling you knew that.

You also know full well Egypt, Syria and Iraq were creations of Nazi Germany and this day still use the German Nazi goose step,salute, and uniforms. You of course know Hezbollah, Hamas and Iran use the Nazi salute and deny the holocaust.

You know the current terrorist organizations created to wipe out Israel were the creation of the Nazis. You also know the Britain and France joined with the former Nazis after World WarTwo to try prevent an Israeli state and failed.

You knew the Soviets called the Arab League of Nations stooges for the Nazis and colonial imperialisyts in 1948 and 1949.

You know of course it was the Soviets who created the phrase Zionism is Nazism when they suddenly switched sides and decided

the same Arab League nations they called imperialist colonial puppet states suddenly became Soviet allies when Israel refused to become a Soviet puppet state and turn against the US.

You know of course the creation of Israel is something Elenor Roosevelt a gentile spent so many years to achieve precisely because

she argued to the entire world Jews were entitled to a state of their own precisely because of wide spread Nazi support in Europe that meant remaining there an impossibility for Jews.

You know of course about dhimmitude in the Arab Muslim states that do not seperate Islam from state, and that defined and still defines Jews in these nations as inferiors.

You of course have no problem with Muslims having states or Christians having states, but when Jews want but one state-suddenly you say we have parallels with Nazis-the very organization whose views demanded the extermination of us.

You are a coward for trying to couch your words. You don't have the integrity to come right out and call Jews Nazi pigs.

Go on you know where to find me when you have the courage.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Rue

[DogOnPorch]

Zionism has parallels to Naziism.

But you can't explain them....