takeanumber Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 I can recall the Herald and the idealogue's who worked there, blindly defending Conrad Black. I have vivid memories of people who defended Black when Chretien upheld the law that you couldn't be a Canadian citizen and have a title. (A law in the spirit of 1837, which I support wholeheartedly.). I also have vivid memories of avid right wingers, Alliance buttons pinned to the chest, vehemently defending the character, brilliance and wisdom of Conrad Black. To those people: Where's your messiah now? Moreover: why hasn't the Calgary Herald editorial board resigned yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Good thread. Let's tell Conrad Black jokes/anecdotes. I understand that he got Hollinger to buy FDR's memoirs so that Black could write the bio. (I haven't read it or even skimmed it but in fairness to Black, he's a damned good writer. His book on Duplessis is excellent. At first, some said he had help but judging by his other writings, and his personality, it's him.) Incidentally, I suspect Black's take on this imbroglio is that if you and he are partners, and as a result of something he does, your partnership receives $40 millon, he is generous to let you have $100 and he is more than entitled to $39,999,900. In his mind, that's $100 more to you than what you would have had if he had not done what he did. Everyone else thinks he's a crook of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idealisttotheend Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Black's main problem is his vanity and his insecurity (yes he appears to be the crassest, most secure man in the world but..) According to the news reports today he spent most of the money throwing lavish parties (42,000 for his wife's birthday party, God I hated her column in Maclean's) and such. I forget what Newman said of him but it seems to me as if he's got the same inferiorty complex of the rags to richest crowds. He's desperate to move in high social circles with people with more money than him so he loots his company to try to keep up. He has always lusted after his British honours and status papers like the Telegraph more than being a good manager or CEO. Pathetic really, to spend one's life lusting after such silly things so much that you show no ethics and get brought down in the end. Anyway, his humiliation is another win for Chretien as TN points out. Chretien got flack for standing up to Black from the right but like his position on Iraq, the man from Shawiningan comes out victorous again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Terrible Sweal Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Canada's real-life Lex Luthor brought low! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Canada's real-life Lex Luthor brought low!More like Citizen Charles Foster Kane.Black's main problem is his vanity and his insecurity (yes he appears to be the crassest, most secure man in the world but..)Vain yes. But his sense of superiority is not hiding any deep rooted inferiority complex. Like the French and the Chinese, Black genuinely believes he's better.Don't like my grotesque, stereotyped generalization? Try this: He was chauffeured to school at the elite Upper Canada College (UCC). Quote from some Web Site Incidentally, Black has a law degree from Université Laval but I don`t know if he's kept up his payments to the barreau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idealisttotheend Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 OK. But if he is so secure why did he push so hard for the Lordship and why does he spend so much money on such trivial things as silverware for his jet plane. A man who is truly assured of his own superiority does not need such things as vanities nor to worry about whether or not he has as much money as the people in his social circle. If you wach Don Cherry on TV you'd think he is one confident sonf a bitch, but the reality is he is just the opposite deep down. In short, a man who truly believes he is superiority has no need to prove it through things like titles and honours and prestigious newspapers. Such a man simply does his work and lets it stand for itself. Black's work is to drive companies into the ground, yet he is still rich. I suspect he knows he is not considered even an adequet manager by people in the know and compensates for it. Anyway, you're the one who comapred him to Citizen Kane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted September 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Hearst was able to operate newspapers profitably. Black, who was closely aligned with the Alliance and the Calgary Elite, has really, really fallen from grace. And it's just remarkable that nobody is stepping up and admitting that they were wrong to support him, and especially wrong for how he treated employees at the Herald. I won't hold my breath. But I do think that Black is emblematic of the tory kleptocracy controlling our media, banks, oil companies and natural resource firms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 But I do think that Black is emblematic of the tory kleptocracy controlling our media, banks, oil companies and natural resource firms.Call it kleptocracy if you will but nobody gets where Black got to without an extremely competitive nature.The protestant cemetery on Mont-Royal is higher up the mountain than the Catholic cemetery (the smaller Jewish cemetery is sort of in between). At the highest reaches, one branch of the Molson family has its mausoleum. But another branch put its mausoleum even higher. IME, these guys are competitive and ambitious like politicians but are not so egotistical. They are very, very independent. They prefer to run their own show. Eric Kierans, who died recently, fit the mould. Conrad Black created the wealth he is now accused of stealing. The best question to Black would be: If you're so smart, why are you in this mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Hearst was able to operate newspapers profitably.Black, who was closely aligned with the Alliance and the Calgary Elite, has really, really fallen from grace. And it's just remarkable that nobody is stepping up and admitting that they were wrong to support him, and especially wrong for how he treated employees at the Herald. I won't hold my breath. But I do think that Black is emblematic of the tory kleptocracy controlling our media, banks, oil companies and natural resource firms. I remember when Black moved his company out of BC when the NDP got elected. What a wretch of a human being. If Chretien did one thing right, it was to stand up to this freak. I hope he gets jail time. And who ever said having a competitive nature is some kind of positive trait? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Once again, MaSoupe provides a starting point. And who ever said having a competitive nature is some kind of positive trait?It isn't. But judging by the Olympics, some people like to compete and many more like to watch the drama. This may well be genetics.Yet we all know instinctively that the collective can benefit best from co-operation. Unfortunately, an individual member can gain more by being competitive and cheating. Hundreds of thousands of years ago, Conrad Black was the man-ape that pretended to help in the kill and then got up in the middle of the night to take more than his share. A scab. ---- Enter markets and prices, several thousand years ago. The competitive Conrad Black ape-turned-human still wants to win (by cheating if necessary). But inadvertently, market prices mean his efforts lead to co-operation and collective benefits. How? The mathematician John von Neumann was the first to make the answer explicit although Adam Smith had the first inkling. The mathematician John Nash made explicit when this doesn't work; that is, when competition in markets with prices doesn't lead to co-operation. Others before Nash had suggested as much. [incidentally, if you saw the movie A Beautiful Mind about Nash's life, the scene in the bar with the blonde is unfortunately and completely wrong.] In any case, von Neumann and the others were simply describing something that a much more intelligent, unknown person discovered several thousands years ago: Exchanges using the mathematical signals of prices are a marvel. Like written language, this is a useful skill but it takes time to learn the mechanics. Five thousand years after discovering writing, how many of us are literate? Allow our species, if we survive, a few more hundred years to understand this mathematical language better. "If we survive?" Given life in the universe, our planet has been getting almost straight "Heads" for the last 64 flips or so. What will our next flip be? Tails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Looks like Conrad and his wife may end up in jail: Walter Mitty life of media magnate turned robber baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maplesyrup Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Black and Radler Benefited From Hollinger Loans What kind of sickies are we dealing with here? This is a really good example of what is wrong about allowing these business tycoons so much power in our society. Business leaders needs to be stripped of their power, they cannot be trusted, they are too greedy, and given the opportunity they will screw anyone - the government, shareholders, tax auditors, business associates, whatever. The business community is very sick and needs to be kept on an extremely short leash by our governments who are supposed to represent the citizens although often you would never know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idealisttotheend Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Interesting comment by Salutin Conrad's quest: I want to register the claim that Conrad Black's motive was not greed. If he has written lovingly on greed, then his purpose was to put people off the scent. If greed were the motive, he'd have been more circumspect about his tactics, and especially his bravado. Why on earth publicly denounce the “fad” for corporate governance while taking risks with it? Greed can be done in private. I'm not saying he was trying to get into trouble. But the point seems to have been to be seen. Adler wins over Freud and Jung. It's about ego, and recognition. Like a pitcher or boxer who is not satisfied to win, but must humiliate the opposition. Rosebud, rosebud, it always comes down to rosebud. [email protected] Looks like August was on the same page as the Salutin in his reference to Kane, (maybe his IS Salutin lol ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeanumber Posted September 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 I think that white collar criminals ought to be handled more roughly than how we treat a regular criminal. Black ought to be sent, if found guilty, to a real prison, and be stripped of the right to sit on any corporate board. He should have to pay back all the money he stole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Terrible Sweal Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 And who ever said having a competitive nature is some kind of positive trait? Nature. Evolution. Experience. A competitive nature inspires improvement of skills and self, and is probably inherent in the survival instinct. It must be tempered, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 I agree Sweal. It's futile to try and eliminate something which is part of human nature, but we can make failure less catestrophic. Like written language, this is a useful skill but it takes time to learn the mechanics. Five thousand years after discovering writing, how many of us are literate? Allow our species, if we survive, a few more hundred years to understand this mathematical language better. Did you realize that accounting preceeded language as a form of communication ? That is why our 'A' looks like an ox upside-down - it evolved from the accounting 'symbol' of an ox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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