Guest Peeves Posted October 29, 2012 Report Posted October 29, 2012 We're wasting (pun intended), an opportunity ! Obviously there's a great source of energy that Dalton is missing. It's garbage, so it' should be right in his bailiwick! We pay to have it hauled away, Toronto to the USA. SILLY HUH? http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1192661 Sweden forced to import trash from Norway to create heat and electricity Norway pays Sweden to take its trash, Sweden gets the heat and electricity, and Sweden exports the burned debris back to Norway. Swedes aren’t producing enough garbage for their successful watse-to-energy program. Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/sweden-imports-trash-norway-heat-electricity-article-1.1192661#ixzz2AhK9HZVa Quote
Wild Bill Posted October 29, 2012 Report Posted October 29, 2012 This is ancient history, Peeves. Despite the election of Rob Ford as Mayor, Toronto is still dominated by leftwing politicians and has been for a long time. They are rabidly against the idea of incinerating garbage. They don't want to hear about modern, clean technologies such as plasma furnaces. They don't want to hear about generating electricity. If you burn it it's BAD! Period and end of story. Back during Bob Rae's term in Ontario his NDP energy minister was a lady named Ruth Grier Incineration was being talked about at that time and an American company that operated what appeared to be model 'green' incineration/generation stations in some American states offered not only to do a presentation but to fly Ruth and her own pick of 'techie' minions to one of their sites and let her see for herself how clean and pure was the operation. Ruth flat out refused to even consider going! Then later we had the Kirkland Lake fiasco. Kirkland Lake has a great big hole in the ground from some abandoned mine or quarry. They proposed lining it with something to prevent any leakage into the ground water and let Toronto ship its trash in by rail and use it to fill the hole. They figured they could take decades worth and could certainly use the money Toronto would be expected to pay them. The deal was almost signed when the lefty cohort on Toronto's Council got the deal squashed. There was a lot of BS thrown around. They claimed that the people of Kirkland Lake were rabidly against the idea of taking the garbage. Of course, some TV station made a cip of a 'walk-around' on KL's streets, asking people how they felt about the issue. Everyone was enthusiastically onside and the TV crew reported they couldn't find a single naysayer! Another councillor said it was a bad idea because it only postponed coming up with a 'good' solution. He said that Toronto should not export its problem anyway and should buckle down and come up with a nice, 'green' solution. They did. They made a deal with Michigan! Plus, several hundred trucks of garbage started travelling the 401 to cross the border at Windsor everyday. So that's why, Peeves. Unless and until the leftie power on Toronto council gets broken, nothing will change. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
GostHacked Posted October 29, 2012 Report Posted October 29, 2012 Burning/incinerating trash causes that nasty CO2 to be spewed into the air. Quote
Sleipnir Posted October 29, 2012 Report Posted October 29, 2012 Burning/incinerating trash causes that nasty CO2 to be spewed into the air. And other toxic chemicals from the degradation of waste and by-products. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Wild Bill Posted October 29, 2012 Report Posted October 29, 2012 Burning/incinerating trash causes that nasty CO2 to be spewed into the air. No, it doesn't! Maybe it did half a century ago but not necessary to do so today. There are a number of technologies, perhaps the most widely used involving plasma furnaces, that burn trash at unimaginably high temperatures! These installations have been used for over 20 years in many locations. They are as green as anyone could ask. Some are actually covered with grass and trees to make a park and are hidden within the very communities they serve. You really should get out more, GH! I'm starting to think you live in Amish Country! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
eyeball Posted October 29, 2012 Report Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) Why aren't we burning all our trash? Because of people and their left wing ideology according to Bill's nose which seems as reflexive as most people's knees. Perhaps our lefties realized 20 years ago that burning waste was the more wasteful way to go. Like people in Sweden do now according to the article cited in the OP. “But I would say maybe in the future, this waste will be valued even more, so maybe you could sell your waste because there will be a shortage of resources within the world,” Ostlund said. Thinking about the future, Ostlund said she would like to see Sweden import trash from countries outside Scandinavia. “I hope that we instead will get the waste from Italy or from Romania or Bulgaria or the Baltic countries because they landfill a lot in these countries,” she said. “They don’t have any incineration plants or recycling plants, so they need to find a solution for their waste.” This wouldn't be a long-term solution, Ostlund said, because as time goes on, countries really just need to start reusing and recycling better. In retrospect, Swedes are probably kicking their lefties for having invested them in such an obviously and ultimately losing proposition. I guess the real lesson here is that lefties are right only when they're wrong. The real winners in the future will probably be places and communities that allowed trash to be imported to their locale as landfill. Someday those landfills could be goldmines. Edited October 29, 2012 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Wild Bill Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 Because of people and their left wing ideology according to Bill's nose which seems as reflexive as most people's knees. Perhaps our lefties realized 20 years ago that burning waste was the more wasteful way to go. Like people in Sweden do now according to the article cited in the OP. In retrospect, Swedes are probably kicking their lefties for having invested them in such an obviously and ultimately losing proposition. I guess the real lesson here is that lefties are right only when they're wrong. The real winners in the future will probably be places and communities that allowed trash to be imported to their locale as landfill. Someday those landfills could be goldmines. Someday perhaps, but what about today? The garbage piles up and has to be dealt with RIGHT NOW! Do we have cost-effective recycling technologies today? Could we build such plants as you mentioned immediately? Or would we have to wait until the technology is invented? I'm not pooh-poohing the idea at all, just the practicallity of immediate application. Seems to me, with cities like Toronto, of the choice between high-temperature modern incineration/electricity generation and the recycling scheme your Swedish spokespeople mentioned, have chose to do neither! Instead, they just fill up the highways with all those garbage trucks and pay Michigan. And I wasn't criticizing ALL lefties! Just Ruth Grier's bunch of Rae's government that refused to even LOOK at a solution because their minds were already closed and those lefties on Toronto's council. Personally, i would be in favour of the province passing laws to force Toronto to immediately stop using foreign landfill sites with all the expense that entails and be commanded to come up with a 'green solution' right away! If they can't do it, whether because they don't have the wit to choose one of many solutions already in place in other cities or they just can't agree among themselves, then let their garbage pile up until it buries them all! It would be a great character lesson to other Canadian cities! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Guest Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 Talking of what to do with our trash, I remembered reading this back in 2003: http://discovermagazine.com/2003/may/featoil I wondered what happened to the idea. This from Wiki today: Status as of February 2009 A May 2003 article in Discover magazine stated, "Appel has lined up federal grant money to help build demonstration plants to process chicken offal and manure in Alabama and crop residuals and grease in Nevada. Also in the works are plants to process turkey waste and manure in Colorado and pork and cheese waste in Italy. He says the first generation of depolymerization centers will be up and running in 2005. By then it should be clear whether the technology is as miraculous as its backers claim."[21] However, as of August 2008, the only operational plant listed at the company's website is the initial one in Carthage, Missouri.[22] Changing World Technology applied for an IPO on August 12; 2008, hoping to raise $100 million.[23] The unusual Dutch Auction type IPO failed possibly because CWT has lost nearly $20 million with very little revenue.[24][25] CWT, the parent company of Renewable Energy Solutions, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. No details on plans for the Carthage plant have been released.[26] Shame that. Quote
Wild Bill Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Talking of what to do with our trash, I remembered reading this back in 2003: http://discovermagaz...003/may/featoil I wondered what happened to the idea. This from Wiki today: Status as of February 2009 A May 2003 article in Discover magazine stated, "Appel has lined up federal grant money to help build demonstration plants to process chicken offal and manure in Alabama and crop residuals and grease in Nevada. Also in the works are plants to process turkey waste and manure in Colorado and pork and cheese waste in Italy. He says the first generation of depolymerization centers will be up and running in 2005. By then it should be clear whether the technology is as miraculous as its backers claim."[21] However, as of August 2008, the only operational plant listed at the company's website is the initial one in Carthage, Missouri.[22] Changing World Technology applied for an IPO on August 12; 2008, hoping to raise $100 million.[23] The unusual Dutch Auction type IPO failed possibly because CWT has lost nearly $20 million with very little revenue.[24][25] CWT, the parent company of Renewable Energy Solutions, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. No details on plans for the Carthage plant have been released.[26] Shame that. I'm not surprised it got ignored, BCSapper. This is a scheme that requires a bit of background knowledge to appreciate. It also scares the typical urban lefty voter, who sees anything about farm waste and manure and immediately turns up his nose! I am not picking on "lefties" just because of politics. I am using the word to describe the cliche of an academic or a "yuppie", someone who may be well educated and articulate but in an academic sense rather than down to earth and more practical. I am NOT saying that all lefties are airheads! I AM however saying that virtually all airheads are lefties! The sort of person who can easily afford to pay someone to fix their BMW but could never change a tire themselves. They just don't have the background to understand and evaluate such schemes as you cited but because they once read an article about it in Harper's Magazine they think they know all about it. Everyone has a different background and different skill sets. Society needs ALL of them! Still, we seem to live in times where the mix is badly unbalanced. It therefore is not surprising that we never seem to adopt positive WORKING solutions in such matters! Edited October 30, 2012 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
guyser Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 Personally, i would be in favour of the province passing laws to force Toronto to immediately stop using foreign landfill sites with all the expense that entails and be commanded to come up with a 'green solution' right away! If they can't do it, whether because they don't have the wit to choose one of many solutions already in place in other cities or they just can't agree among themselves, then let their garbage pile up until it buries them all! It would be a great character lesson to other Canadian cities! You do that Wild Bill, Its a great idea too! Jump up on a soapbox and yell it out.....please? Ignore that pesky guy in the crowd who's yelling "its been almost 2 years since we trucked it to Michigan!" Quote
eyeball Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 It also scares the typical urban lefty voter, blah blah blah. That's about as deep as I dip into your posts anymore. If there's anything that's wrecked this god damn forum its this endless lefty this lefty that bullshit people like you keep smearing every issue with. Give it a break why don't you? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Mr.Canada Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 I like the way they burn it in Italy, very clean and they use that garbage to make hydro energy, cool. We only get one Earth so let's not turn every mine shaft into a landfill. I'd rather burn the garbage and use that garbage for energy like in Italy then have landfill sites. Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
guyser Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) I like the way they burn it in Italy, . Im guessing you 've never been in Rome or Naples? Mafia run garbage, manufactured crisis galore. Dumping, legally mind you, in Mt Vesuvius National Park. ? Imagine someone proposing to dump (on an emergency basis) in Algonquin Park, or Sandbanks Prov Pk...... ETA: not one insult contained within. So...not every post gets you insulted. Edited October 30, 2012 by guyser Quote
Sleipnir Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 (edited) Someone in my class once suggested throwing thrash in a volcano and wait for it to erupt to disintegrate lol... Edited October 30, 2012 by Sleipnir Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
guyser Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 Someone in my class once suggested throwing thrash in a volcano and wait for it to erupt to disintegrate lol... I bet its been thought of numerous times.the problem is getting the truck that close without melting. Quote
Sleipnir Posted October 30, 2012 Report Posted October 30, 2012 I bet its been thought of numerous times. the problem is getting the truck that close without melting. I think he meant in a dormant but potentially active volcano. Quote "All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain
Mighty AC Posted November 1, 2012 Report Posted November 1, 2012 No, it doesn't! Maybe it did half a century ago but not necessary to do so today. Incinerators have certainly become cleaner, filters remove heavy metals and some other pollutants. However, the super high temps reduce, but not eliminate, the production of uber-toxic dioxins. They obviously produce greenhouse gases, but probably less than diesel trucks use to transport the trash to landfill sites. As long as valuable recyclables are separated and the plants are located in cities where the waste heat could be used directly, they are probably a reasonably green solution. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Mr.Canada Posted November 2, 2012 Report Posted November 2, 2012 ETA: not one insult contained within. So...not every post gets you insulted. Appreciated for not attacking me personally as usual. Now italy runs the best trash burning system in the world. One that we need to copy right away. They burn garbage and turn it into hydro power! This is awesome news. We can now burn our trash and turn it into electricity! We need to do this right away. With all the gas and coal power plants being shut down we need to replace that power somehow and windmills ain't gonna cut it sister! Quote "You are scum for insinuating that isn't the case you snake." -William Ashley Canadian Immigration Reform Blog
guyser Posted November 2, 2012 Report Posted November 2, 2012 Appreciated for not attacking me personally as usual. Hang on a sec.....I will correct that in a moment... Now italy runs the best trash burning system in the world. Now you are showing ignorance again. They have a good system I grant you, but it doesnt run, collection is sporadic and as all things political in Italy it is a giant mess. Quote
Wild Bill Posted November 2, 2012 Report Posted November 2, 2012 You do that Wild Bill, Its a great idea too! Jump up on a soapbox and yell it out.....please? Ignore that pesky guy in the crowd who's yelling "its been almost 2 years since we trucked it to Michigan!" So what, guyser? The fact that they could do such a hypocritical thing at all is gobsmacking! And the only reason they stopped is because finally MIchigan told them to get stuffed! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Wild Bill Posted November 2, 2012 Report Posted November 2, 2012 That's about as deep as I dip into your posts anymore. If there's anything that's wrecked this god damn forum its this endless lefty this lefty that bullshit people like you keep smearing every issue with. Give it a break why don't you? I agree I should find a more precise term than "lefty", eyeball. It's just that it fits rather well! I use it in this context not so much for its political elements but rather as a description of a certain personality. It has been my experience that most techies and practical people are not leftwingers. It is academics, yuppies and "Double Income No Kids" who tend to be left wing. I'm talking about the people who have copies of Harrowsmith on their coffee table amongst the wine and brie they serve their guests, thinking that makes them as knowledgeable as a real farmer! The people who drive a BMW but can't change a tire. If you have a better term I would appreciate it if you could pass it along. Meanwhile, if I bother you so much then why not put me on 'ignore'? Believe me, it helps! I have a number of people I ignore and it does tend to keep my blood pressure from spiking. I feel it's a better habit than being rude and crude with ad hominem attacks, or calling anyone I disagree with a racist! And no, I did not mean YOU, eyeball! I find that while you may get a bit hot and bothered at times you are mostly quite civilized, unlike certain others. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
guyser Posted November 2, 2012 Report Posted November 2, 2012 So what, guyser? So what? Geez, the point you made was half your long post, and it wasnt even true. Thats what. The fact that they could do such a hypocritical thing at all is gobsmacking! And the only reason they stopped is because finally MIchigan told them to get stuffed! Gee.....wrong again, but I suppose ' so what' ,,,,right? Hypocritical was finding a cheap place to dump, Michigan fit the bill. The contract ended Dec of 2010. [/url]Landfill disposal Toronto’s waste disposal contract with the Carlton Farms Landfill in Michigan expires at the end of 2010 http://www.toronto.ca/garbage/facts.htm Quote
Guest Peeves Posted November 21, 2012 Report Posted November 21, 2012 The point about the residual component of anything bad for the environment needing to be compared to the alternative is a good one. The transportation and exhaust from trucks, scows or dozers certainly have to be factored in to negatives against burning. Burning to create power seems a win - win choice. Quote
Guest Peeves Posted November 21, 2012 Report Posted November 21, 2012 That's about as deep as I dip into your posts anymore. If there's anything that's wrecked this god damn forum its this endless lefty this lefty that bullshit people like you keep smearing every issue with. Give it a break why don't you? I sincerely doubt the labeling of 'lefties' exceeds that of the terminology by some of neocon and con etc. But, if one can prove the label, wear it. Quote
Mighty AC Posted November 23, 2012 Report Posted November 23, 2012 The point about the residual component of anything bad for the environment needing to be compared to the alternative is a good one. The transportation and exhaust from trucks, scows or dozers certainly have to be factored in to negatives against burning. Burning to create power seems a win - win choice. Agreed, as long as the plants are located near the urban areas producing the waste. Separate the compostables and reasonably valuable recyclables, burn the refuse and use the waste heat to produce electricity and heat the buildings. Quote "Our lives begin to end the day we stay silent about the things that matter." - Martin Luther King Jr"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.