Macleans Sinks Low

[BC_chick]

Ideally, it would work as you say. In practice, it doesn't always. While many teachers do try to present and grade things objectively, I definitely recall several teachers that let their personal biases affect their work. With increasingly militant teachers unions erasing the notion of teachers being respected professionals, I can only see that problem worsening. Furthermore, while a teacher may try to present things as a "topic of discussion", their personal opinion on it will almost inevitably creep into their tone, presentation, facial expression, etc, as they present it. And a student who speaks out alone in a class discussion against commonly held views will tend to get ostracized by his fellow classmates for his/her "weirdness", even if the teacher is perfectly neutral.

Now, I fully agree that contentious topics should be introduced and discussed in classes such as Social Studies, Humanities, History, English, etc, but the classroom situation is far from the perfect neutrality and objectivity you may hope it to be. And, of course, that is also part of the lesson that students must learn as they are prepared for the real world.

In a perfect world, yes, teachers would be able to mask their personal beliefs but the bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, is that they present both sides of an argument and they grade on structure and grammar.

That, I do believe happens.

Edited October 30, 2012 by BC_chick

[scribblet]

They should present both sides of an argument but IMO they often do not.

here's a piece here on this

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2012/05/09/19738416.html

TORONTO — Tory MPP Rob Milligan - a former high school teacher - is demanding action from the provincial government to protect young children from instructors who “brainwash” their students into promoting political causes.

[scribblet]

In a perfect world, yes, teachers would be able to mask their personal beliefs but the bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, is that they present both sides of an argument and they grade on structure and grammar.

That, I do believe happens.

I don't know how they grade now, but in Toronto a no. of years ago they did not grade on grammar and spelling and at one point where not allowed to correct them. They relied on phonics and the whole word approach.

Some of this stemmed from the Hall Dennis report and child-centred learning which removed the emphasis on testing which allowed students to move on with their age group rather than being held back if they were behind. IMO this resulted in kids struggling with the basics.

Edited October 30, 2012 by scribblet

[Guest]

Aww, that's a rare sight on this site. You actually acknowledged a mistake.

It's my damn conscience! If you don't acknowledge a mistake, it becomes a lie.

[BC_chick]

They should present both sides of an argument but IMO they often do not.

here's a piece here on this

http://cnews.canoe.c...9/19738416.html

TORONTO — Tory MPP Rob Milligan - a former high school teacher - is demanding action from the provincial government to protect young children from instructors who “brainwash” their students into promoting political causes.

Seriously? This is the best example you have of a systematic brainwashing in our public schools? Did you even bother checking out the alternative public school where this teacher worked? Below is the snippet from their homepage.

I suppose you get all riled up about the Bible-thumping 'brainwashing' that goes on in all Catholic public schools too?

The Grove Community School is a public alternative school within the Toronto District School Board offering arts-infused, holistic learning, built on the core values of social justice, environmentalism, and community activism.

http://thegrovecommunityschool.ca/

Edited October 31, 2012 by BC_chick

[socialist]

here is the actual link to the article. it is poorly written and focuses on a few isolated situations. a arbage article. see for yourself.

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/10/31/why-are-schools-brainwashing-our-children/

[Bonam]

From the article:

For Esmonde, a grounding in social-justice math, for instance, helps kids learn to question numbers

families complained about Grade 4 math homework that had kids calculating how many beatings a slave received in a week. The lesson was part of the teacher’s mandate to reinforce a history unit on slavery in America.

Our "public education" system as we know it is over. Even math classes have apparently become little more than a playground for activists like "socialist" here to brainwash children.

[bleeding heart]

Our "public education" system as we know it is over. Even math classes have apparently become little more than a playground for activists like "socialist" here to brainwash children.

But isn't this possibly a wild overstatement? I agree with the author that the examples cited are foolish at best, bad education at worst. But how prevalent is this sort of thing, exactly?

Heck, since we're basing the arguments on specific examples...my favourite teacher in elementary school routinely informed us that he "hated the Russians," and drew comparisons between Us and Them in matters of "freedom" in his Social Studies lessons...which certainly bespeaks of personal political agenda.

Further, even as an apolitical eleven-year-old, I knew the teacher was performing somewhat out of bounds on the subject...kids are not so easily "brainwashed," I don't think (not even by Evil Progressives).

further, even as an apolitical eleven-year-old, I knew he was performing somewhat out of bounds...kids are not so easily "brainwashed" by such things, in my opinion.

It's not the right way to approach things in a formal educaitonal setting...and yet it's not a massive problem ("Brainwashing"? ) unless it becomes thoroughly standardized curricula across the board.

That has not been shown to be the case, at all.

That is, how many professional educators--from teachers to School Boards to University Education Faculty--don't agree with the methodologies under discussion in the article? Seems kind of a gaping hole in the thesis.

Edited November 4, 2012 by bleeding heart

[bleeding heart]

double

Edited November 4, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Bonam]

But isn't this possibly a wild overstatement? I agree with the author that the examples cited are foolish at best, bad education at worst. But how prevalent is this sort of thing, exactly?

...

It's not the right way to approach things in a formal educaitonal setting...and yet it's not a massive problem ("Brainwashing"? ) unless it becomes thoroughly standardized curricula across the board.

That has not been shown to be the case, at all.

That is, how many professional educators--from teachers to School Boards to University Education Faculty--don't agree with the methodologies under discussion in the article? Seems kind of a gaping hole in the thesis.

From what I've seen, the desire/intent to make "social justice" issues integral to elementary and high school education is pretty much universal across teachers, school boards, and university departments that produce teachers. And no I'm not gonna spend time right now looking for a cite.

Oh, gotta love this example:

In Ste-Marie-de-Kent, N.B., in 2009, Grade 4 students were given 10 minutes to decide which three people from this group should be saved from an imminent planetary explosion: a black African, a Chinese person, an Aboriginal, an Acadian francophone and an anglophone.

Totally idiotic question, can't even fathom how some teacher would ask that with a straight face.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Bonam

[bleeding heart]

From what I've seen, the desire/intent to make "social justice" issues integral to elementary and high school education is pretty much universal across teachers, school boards, and university departments that produce teachers.

I know this is what you think; I'm wondering where you get the idea from..it surely isn't (and logically cannot be) from a single article in MacLeans.

Oh, gotta love this example:

Who wants to bet the anglophone wasn't on the list of right answers in that classroom? Totally idiotic question anyway, can't even fathom how some teacher would ask that with a straight face.

I agree it's an inane question; but until you show some evidence that there was a "right answer," it doesn't give us a clear picture of anything besides an ill-conceived "moral dilemma" or thought experiment.

[Bonam]

I agree it's an inane question; but until you show some evidence that there was a "right answer," it doesn't give us a clear picture of anything besides an ill-conceived "moral dilemma" or thought experiment.

It's not any kind of moral dilemma at all. Hint: the race/language of the individual should have nothing whatsoever to do with their selection into a group of 3 out of 5 survivors.

[bleeding heart]

It's not any kind of moral dilemma at all. Hint: the race/language of the individual should have nothing whatsoever to do with their selection into a group of 3 out of 5 survivors.

Of course. "Ill-conceived," as I said, bearing no relation to reality, like the Time journalist defending "killing four-year-olds" over "there," so that four-year-olds aren't killed "here."

[Bonam]

I know this is what you think; I'm wondering where you get the idea from..it surely isn't (and logically cannot be) from a single article in MacLeans.

Honestly, in my case, mostly from direct personal experience. I was in high school as recently as 2003 and the prevalence of this type of education was already obvious then. Also, my sister is in grade 11 right now, and I've talked to her plenty about what she learns in school (she's in a different school than I was). In one class, shortly after Harper's apology, they had all the white students apologize to the Chinese ones for the "head tax". Well, my sister wasn't around for that, and neither were most of the families of the Chinese students in the class. Blatant racism in the classroom in my opinion. Further, I talk to coworkers with kids in various schools, all seeing their kids exposed to these same things. Even the left-leaning types are unhappy with how far the schools take it.

Yes, you may now summarily dismiss all the above as "anecdotal" and demand proof. I'm sure some proof will pop up eventually, until then people can live in happy denial thinking it's just a few oddball teachers rather than a deeply disturbing trend in our entire education system.

But here's something to think about:

“The classroom has completely changed,” says Rita Irwin, associate dean of teacher education at the University of British Columbia. “We need to prepare teachers to deal with that.” To that end, the UBC faculty of education has implemented its revamped curriculum, which builds a social-justice component into every teacher-education course, so that would-be teachers can follow the same approach in their classrooms. By repeating the themes of tolerance and empathy throughout the curriculum, teachers have a better shot of reaching their students, Irwin argues.

We are mass producing teachers with precisely this mindset.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Bonam

[Bonam]

In Laval, Que., a six-year-old boy was disqualified from a teddy-bear contest because a Ziploc was found in his lunch instead of a reusable container.

[Bonam]

Of course. "Ill-conceived," as I said, bearing no relation to reality, like the Time journalist defending "killing four-year-olds" over "there," so that four-year-olds aren't killed "here."

Important difference. The time journalist is talking about his opinion, primarily to an adult audience that can think them for themselves. The teacher in the room full of grade 4 students, not so much.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Bonam

[bleeding heart]

Yes, you may now summarily dismiss all the above as "anecdotal" and demand proof. I'm sure some proof will pop up eventually, until then people can live in happy denial thinking it's just a few oddball teachers rather than a deeply disturbing trend in our entire education system.

But since I have three grown children, who attended school until 2006-07, and I was an involved parent...you are summarily dismissing my own views as anecdotal.

I don't see a difference.

Edited November 4, 2012 by bleeding heart

[bleeding heart]

Important difference. The time journalist is talking about his opinion, primarily to an adult audience that can think them for themselves. The teacher in the room full of grade 4 students, not so much.

Yes, but that's beside my point...the point being grotesqueries posing as "moral dilemmas."

This is all quite distinct from your assumption that there was a "right" answer.

[Bonam]

But since I have three grown children who attended school until 2006-07, and I was an involved parent, you are by implication summarily dismissing my views as anecdotal

And what are your views, then?

Also, forgive me if I am somewhat skeptical of a poster whose name is "bleeding heart" detecting a concerning "bleeding heart" mindset among teachers.

Edited November 4, 2012 by Bonam

[Bonam]

Yes, but that's beside my point...the point being grotesqueries posing as "moral dilemmas."

This is all quite distinct from your assumption that there was a "right" answer.

Actually I don't necessarily assume there was a right answer. I edited that line out of my post quickly as I realized it wasn't really well thought out.

[bleeding heart]

And what are your views, then?

Also, forgive me if I am somewhat skeptical of a poster whose name is "bleeding heart" from detecting a concerning "bleeding heart" mindset among teachers.

That's fine...but your non...directional.... name aside, your somewhat conservative sympathies are pretty well-established...so that line of though leads nowhere.

Besides, seven years ago, I was a lot less....lefty...than I am now.

My views?

That the idea of the public education system being "over" and becoming nothing more than a politically "progressive," pc nightmare...is a premature ejaculation, to put it generously.

Edited November 4, 2012 by bleeding heart

[Fletch 27]

I see with the latest issue of maclean's that they are pandering to the far right. i have never been more offeneded with a magazine cover in my life. i hope the readers can see through this garbage and stop buying this magazine. what's happened to honest journalsim?

I would like people to know that what this cover shows is not even close to the truth.

http://www.rogersmag...mme05no2012.jpg

I picked up my copy of MacLeans this week and have sent in my payment to have it delivered to my door!

Macleans has it 100 percent right... The teachers are bashing our students with a blunt hammer every single time negotiations are on the table.. I have NO respect for the public school teachers in Ontario. I will NOT put my children through that mess...

Private school is worth the additional cost.. I prefer my children not brainwashed and pistol-whipped. Shame on the teachers

[Shakeyhands]

Believe me, if I had the money they would've gone to a private school.

I went to private school....

[Shakeyhands]

Private school is worth the additional cost.. I prefer my children not brainwashed and pistol-whipped. Shame on the teachers

Which school?

[The_Squid]

It's not any kind of moral dilemma at all. Hint: the race/language of the individual should have nothing whatsoever to do with their selection into a group of 3 out of 5 survivors.

What if that was exactly the lesson the teacher was trying to portray through this question through discussion of the students' answers? Context is everything....