Winnipeg police chief touts prayer to help combat crime

[Sleipnir]

The unicorn didn't evolve into anything else - it missed the boat, literally. The unicorns were off frolicking and having fun while the other animals were boarding Noah's Ark.

LOL I can't believe I never thought of that...

[betsy]

Considering the new young earth creationist stance is that evolution is real but your god only allows for limited diversification and speciation withing "kinds", don't you think it is possible? If a unicorn fossil was ever found I'm certain the young earthers will label it as part of the horse kind and draw it in to ark pics next to the T-Rex.

I just want to clarify that saying I'm not a young-earth creationist means that it's really not important to me whether earth is young or ancient. The way I look at it, God is not saying that we should believe earth is young.... or old.

He wants us to believe that He is the Creator.

Edited November 17, 2012 by betsy

[Sleipnir]

He wants us to believe that He is the Creator.

Why would he care if we believe he's the creator or not? How do you even know he wants us to believe him? Heck....how do you know god is a he?

Edited November 17, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Mighty AC]

I just want to clarify that saying I'm not a young-earth creationist means that it's really not important to me whether earth is young or ancient. The way I look at it, God is not saying that we should believe earth is young.... or old.

He wants us to believe that He is the Creator.

So you don't believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old?

[cybercoma]

Stop putting words in my mouth. Seriously. And then back off. I'm not interested in your responses ...

...and I'm especially not interested in your total and complete misrepresentation of what I say.

Then quit replying to me, if you're not interested in what I have to say.

You have absolutely no response to what I said about your arguments. As usual, you get backed into a corner and you start hurling personal insults and acting all insulted, dropping the current thread's argument altogether.

Edited November 17, 2012 by cybercoma

[Guest American Woman]

Then quit replying to me, if you're not interested in what I have to say.

As long as I'm interested in saying what I have to say to you, I'll keep replying to you.

You have absolutely no response to what I said about your arguments. As usual, you get backed into a corner and you start hurling personal insults and acting all insulted, dropping the current thread's argument altogether.

[Guest American Woman]

LOL I can't believe I never thought of that...

There was a song about it that all of the talk about unicorns has dragged out of my subconscious - and become stuck in my head.

[cybercoma]

As long as I'm interested in saying what I have to say to you, I'll keep replying to you.

you going to bring it back to the topic or keep trolling me?

[Merlin]

If this good, black, Christian, new police chief wants some Christians to pray for the crime rate to go down, who cares? He is a good man who happens to be a Christian and while speaking to a Christian audience asked them to keep praying. So what?

[Sleipnir]

If this good, black, Christian, new police chief wants some Christians to pray for the crime rate to go down, who cares? He is a good man who happens to be a Christian and while speaking to a Christian audience asked them to keep praying. So what?

Government services, esp the police force, needs to be secular.

[betsy]

So you don't believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old?

The evidences show it's older than that. Mind you, there are those who say there's something wrong with the carbon dating. Right now I guess I believe it's older.....but like I said, I can go where the evidences lead. If ever in the future the evidences show the reverse...I can swing that way too.

But I don't care whether it's old or young....it doesn't make any difference to me.

[betsy]

If this good, black, Christian, new police chief wants some Christians to pray for the crime rate to go down, who cares? He is a good man who happens to be a Christian and while speaking to a Christian audience asked them to keep praying. So what?

And it doesn't cost the taxpayers anything! If prayers happen to work - everybody wins!

[Merlin]

Government services, esp the police force, needs to be secular.

Afaik the Winnipeg PS is secular and I haven't heard of him or anyone trying to make it anything else. Show me where he states that he is going to turn the police service into a religious police force. The Police Service already has its own chaplains like the army does. We all need to open our hearts and soften our hearts and not be so rigid in our daily lives. Edited November 18, 2012 by Merlin

[Sleipnir]

We all need to open our hearts and soften our hearts and not be so rigid in our daily lives.

The duty of the police force is to serve and protect. Piests, imam, rabbi and whatever - can fill in the role of opening and softening our hearts.

[Merlin]

The duty of the police force is to serve and protect. Piests, imam, rabbi and whatever - can fill in the role of opening and softening our hearts.

Ok so now I have your stance on crime. You believe that criminals should be locked up and throw away the key because you view any rehabilitation as being a waste of time and money. Thank you for clearing that up. Police should arrest people and not worry about trying to understand the circumstances of crime, got it.

[Sleipnir]

Ok so now I have your stance on crime. You believe that criminals should be locked up and throw away the key because you view any rehabilitation as being a waste of time and money. Thank you for clearing that up. Police should arrest people and not worry about trying to understand the circumstances of crime, got it.

You sure have a knack for twisting people's words.

[betsy]

The duty of the police force is to serve and protect. Piests, imam, rabbi and whatever - can fill in the role of opening and softening our hearts.

Oh boy.....

He's a Police Chief, who's trying to serve and protect - and a former Chaplain who's trying to "soften" the hearts of his community! This guys happens to be both (police and pastor).

Taxpayers got both for the price of one! I say that's a good deal!

[betsy]

Ok so now I have your stance on crime. You believe that criminals should be locked up and throw away the key because you view any rehabilitation as being a waste of time and money. Thank you for clearing that up. Police should arrest people and not worry about trying to understand the circumstances of crime, got it.

It's hard to please everybody! One minute they're all hollering "crime PREVENTION"....and when somebody really does try to prevent crime (without using taxpayers' money adding to more social programs)....they try to shoot it down.

I wonder what Sleipner's position is on fighting crime? I'm assuming he is one of those against building more prisons.....

[betsy]

You sure have a knack for twisting people's words.

So, what do you think about fighting crime? Should we build more prison? Tougher sentences? Do you support that or are you against it?

[Guest]

So, what do you think about fighting crime? Should we build more prison? Tougher sentences? Do you support that or are you against it?

I think we have change our policy on who goes to jail. I would put no-one in jail who was not a threat to others. We have the technology now where a person can be incarcerated in their homes, remain at work and pay a hefty fine. If they are not violent criminals, that should be the first stop for them.

Then they can assume the cost of their room and board while they are serving their sentence, and the jails can be reserved for those who a danger to others.

Neck bracelets that explode if they stray too far from a central point should be used.

(Just kidding about that last bit. Ankle bracelets would be fine. And just a very small amount of explosives.)

[Sleipnir]

So, what do you think about fighting crime? Should we build more prison? Tougher sentences? Do you support that or are you against it?

1) Legalize the acts of most victimless crime. Would save the time (investigation effort), resources (divert to more pressing priorities) and space (prison) for the authorities to go after real criminals (arsonists, murderers, kidnappers, internet fraud, etc).

2) Go after the source to stop the influencing of people to retort to criminal activities. To go after sources can be in the form of education and raising awareness in the public sphere.

Edit:

Building more prison and tougher sentences sounds nice and all, but its not the best answer for long term effort to keep the public safe.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Sleipnir

[Mighty AC]

Hey, I'm not a young-earth creationist....so I cannot answer for them. It's not only young-earth creationists however, who believe the limited diversification within "kinds".....I believe that too.

But I believe that science was given to mankind for a reason. I believe it is God-given, to explain or reveal to us what God wants us to know and understand. Thus, that's one of the points I was trying to make with the Bible facts.

Therefore....I can go where the evidence(s) lead. If evidences show the irrefutable and conclusive fact that we've evolved - macroevolution - I can accept that, too.

I respect that statement, but based on many of your posts I am skeptical about its truthiness. What happens when the evidence shows that not only was the Bible wrong about the age of the earth, but it was also wrong about the earth being seeded with adults of all the "kinds"? In your particular belief system are you allowed to state there are errors in the Bible?

Microevolution and macroevolution are not actually two different processes, they are just terms which describe the type of change within an organism. Evolution is just the result of changes in the genetic code. These changes can effect "minor" or "micro" attributes like colour or size, or they can lead to "major" or "macro" changes that create new species that can no longer breed with their parent populations. "Micro" changes can add up or compound over time as well. Anyway, so called macro or speciation events are not just theorized, they are observable.

If you are interested, the university of Berkeley has a site that addresses common misconceptions about what evolution is and how it works. http://evolution.ber..._teacherfaq.php

[betsy]

I think we have change our policy on who goes to jail. I would put no-one in jail who was not a threat to others. We have the technology now where a person can be incarcerated in their homes, remain at work and pay a hefty fine. If they are not violent criminals, that should be the first stop for them.

Then they can assume the cost of their room and board while they are serving their sentence, and the jails can be reserved for those who a danger to others.

Neck bracelets that explode if they stray too far from a central point should be used.

(Just kidding about that last bit. Ankle bracelets would be fine. And just a very small amount of explosives.)

My point is: Here's a police chief who's trying to do his own way of crime prvention at no extra cost yet we hear all the whining about it. I'm wondering if the whiners support the new crime bill (more prisons/tougher sentences), or not.

Because if he doesn't support building more prisons (he's more likely into having social programs that aim on prevention)....in that case, what's he whining about? Consider the prayer method as another, unusual way of prevention. Since there'll be no added cost attached to it - why not?

Edited November 19, 2012 by betsy

[betsy]

I respect that statement, but based on many of your posts I am skeptical about its truthiness. What happens when the evidence shows that not only was the Bible wrong about the age of the earth, but it was also wrong about the earth being seeded with adults of all the "kinds"? In your particular belief system are you allowed to state there are errors in the Bible?

Microevolution and macroevolution are not actually two different processes, they are just terms which describe the type of change within an organism. Evolution is just the result of changes in the genetic code. These changes can effect "minor" or "micro" attributes like colour or size, or they can lead to "major" or "macro" changes that create new species that can no longer breed with their parent populations. "Micro" changes can add up or compound over time as well. Anyway, so called macro or speciation events are not just theorized, they are observable.

If you are interested, the university of Berkeley has a site that addresses common misconceptions about what evolution is and how it works. http://evolution.ber..._teacherfaq.php

Mighty AC, post your reply at an appropriate topic. We've already strayed from the subject - and some posters had tried to bring it back on topic (and I'd like to see it back on topic as well).

So, what do you think about method of crime prevention this chief is trying to do?

[betsy]

1) Legalize the acts of most victimless crime. Would save the time (investigation effort), resources (divert to more pressing priorities) and space (prison) for the authorities to go after real criminals (arsonists, murderers, kidnappers, internet fraud, etc).

2) Go after the source to stop the influencing of people to retort to criminal activities. To go after sources can be in the form of education and raising awareness in the public sphere.

Edit:

Building more prison and tougher sentences sounds nice and all, but its not the best answer for long term effort to keep the public safe.

So you see the point that what this police chief is trying to do may seem unusual - though there's no guarantee that it would work, it doesn't cost us anything. But if it can help reduce the numbers of crime, so much the better.

Please keep in mind that doing crime is not exclusive to non-believers. If the chief coud reach out to those believers to remember their faith - thus maintaining cooler heads and not to succumb to the temptation to sin - that alone would most probably help reduce crime.

Edited November 19, 2012 by betsy