Wind Turbines

[Topaz]

There has been some discussions in newspapers and in coffee shops, in the rural areas, that the turbines lowers property values in the areas affected. Some views are that it does and others that is doesn't. Since there's been views out there are some people living near turbines have mental and physical health problems, maybe there is some truth in that view. So IF it does, how can it be made right. How about the wind companies paying the property taxes on those properties, not the school tax part, just the property tax. BFI pays property owners who are in a certain distance from their dumps, this would be the same. Thoughts?

[Mr.Canada]

We have some not too far from us when heading towards Arthur,Ontario. I think they are in Wellington County. Everyone around there is complaining and saying that they cause cancer and that they shouldn't be forced to have them on their property. Lots of sign up in that area about it. When we went for lunch in a local diner they told us about it.

[TimG]

How about getting rid of all wind power subsidies first?

It makes ZERO sense to saddle wind power operators with additional costs as long as the government is paying them to exist.

[punked]

How about getting rid of all wind power subsidies first?

It makes ZERO sense to saddle wind power operators with additional costs as long as the government is paying them to exist.

One who has that stance should have it for all energy industries. Do you?

[TimG]

One who has that stance should have it for all energy industries. Do you?

Sure if you can actually find evidence that fossil fuels receive more than they contribute to the treasury.

[punked]

Sure if you can actually find evidence that fossil fuels receive more than they contribute to the treasury.

So now we get to add i have variables? Your argument is a bisuness case now you want to change the rules. Do we get to count what windmills conrtibute to the GDP?

Edited October 7, 2012 by punked

[TimG]

So now we get to add i have variables?

Simple cash calculation: subsidies - royalties - energy taxes must be less than or equal to 0. Applies equally to all energy sources. Edited October 7, 2012 by TimG

[punked]

Simple cash calculation: subsidies - royalties - energy taxes must be less than or equal to 0. Applies equally to all energy sources.

Fair enough.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Fair enough.

Not really fair enough.

Because the oil industry is a healthy, long lived industry.

It shouldn't need tax breaks at all.

Not only that. But to argue that the Wind Energy companies shouldn't receive subsidies is to argue that our current oil infrastructure shouldn't exist... because it was built on subsidy/tax break.

[TimG]

Because the oil industry is a healthy, long lived industry.

Yes - because unlike renewables - oil is a net contributor to the economy.

It shouldn't need tax breaks at all.

At a minimum, it should get all of the tax breaks that are given to any other company. Any exploration tax credits that lead to new royalty revenues for governments are appropriate.

that our current oil infrastructure shouldn't exist... because it was built on subsidy/tax break.

I suspect this is an unsubstantiated talking point. Please be specific about what subsidies were used to build infrastructure that oil benefits from but not wind?

[Lumuntyinsoms]

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[MiddleClassCentrist]

Yes - because unlike renewables - oil is a net contributor to the economy.

At a minimum, it should get all of the tax breaks that are given to any other company. Any exploration tax credits that lead to new royalty revenues for governments are appropriate.

I suspect this is an unsubstantiated talking point. Please be specific about what subsidies were used to build infrastructure that oil benefits from but not wind?

Sure sure, as long as you choose to stop following the ridiculous right wing talking point of tax-break vs subsidy. Purposeful confusion for idiots who don't know how to use a dictionary.

sub·si·dy (sbs-d)

n. pl. sub·si·dies

1. Monetary assistance granted by a government to a person or group in support of an enterprise regarded as being in the public interest.

2. Financial assistance given by one person or government to another.

Tax breaks are a form of financial assistance.

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2009/10/the-u-s-government-has-a-long-history-of-financing-energy-infrastructure

Of course you would doubt it. It doesn't suit your opinion to realize that private businesses have long been subsidized in a variety of forms for "the good of the economy". Tax break subsidies, direct subsidies, removal of regulations are all forms of aid even if you don't label them subsidy.

Edited October 7, 2012 by MiddleClassCentrist

[TimG]

Tax breaks are a form of financial assistance.

Letting companies keep more of the money they earn is NOT the same as giving companies taxpayers money. You have to be pretty twisted to think they are the same because the former is only useful if a company makes a profit (something which renewable companies cannot do).

That said, a *preferential* tax break designed to only apply a specific industry could be considered a subsidy. Tax breaks that are a general policy that oil companies can take advantage of are no subsidy.

It doesn't suit your opinion to realize that private businesses have long been subsidized in a variety of forms for "the good of the economy".

Nothing in your link shows that fossil fuels were subsidized.

That governments have a role promoting R&D. But that is NOT what renewable subsidies are doing. Renewable subsidies are paying people to produce energy from particular sources. This kind of subsidy is wrong and cannot be justified as "R&D".

[Topaz]

We have some not too far from us when heading towards Arthur,Ontario. I think they are in Wellington County. Everyone around there is complaining and saying that they cause cancer and that they shouldn't be forced to have them on their property. Lots of sign up in that area about it. When we went for lunch in a local diner they told us about it.

I'm not saying people views are wrong or right,but they also say the hydro towers and lines causes cancer and we still have them. I grew up on a farm and we had a windmill to pump water and it made noises and we got use to the noise and so some people living near these turbines say they make noise and causes them health issues. I know two guys who went out in the rural area were these turbines and they sat in the car and listened to the "noise". They only thing they heard was the birds chirping and my own view is that people who don't want them , put themselves under huge stress that causes the health issues. The only way to get people to stop complaining is for those areas that have wind turbines, get compensated yearly.

[TimG]

The only way to get people to stop complaining is for those areas that have wind turbines, get compensated yearly.

Or - end subsidies to wind farms which means no one will build them. Why pay more money when paying less money will solve the problem?

[dre]

Subisidies for the energy industry are not going to end in our lifetime. The government for obvious reasons is concerned about security of supply, and prices. As for preferential treatment between various different industries and power sources its almost impossible to even calculate. The gigantic patchwork spiderweb of direct and indirect subsidies, and the externalities allowed for different actors is essentially impossible to even navigate.

[scribblet]

They do lower values, and do cause health problems, don't know about cancer but they do cause other problems. There should be a moratorium on building them until the federal gov't finishes their study.

They have also driven up the price for all of us

The Sorry Lessons of Green Power Subsidiies

Electrical Subsidies Should be Zapped

[Sleipnir]

Everyone around there is complaining and saying that they cause cancer and that they shouldn't be forced to have them on their property.

They also said that sitting around for too long causes cancer.