Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Bonam some of your posts are great then others are way out there. Mostly you seems like a reasonable guy then everyonce in a while in a topic you seem to lose your mind. How so? My views tend not to correspond to any one particular mainstream ideology so I do tend to find myself in agreement and disagreement with different posters on different subjects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 This is why there are so many single women in their 30's. Too bloody uptight. You girls need to relax and realize that not every man isn't out to do you harm. I hate the double-standard about single-women vs. single men so I'm not really going to touch this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I hate the double-standard about single-women vs. single men so I'm not really going to touch this one. You mean like single men are bachelors and cool, whereas single women are old maids and something wrong with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Personally, I believe that laws and rules should be based on things that are more concrete, more objective. Subjectivity is fine when it comes to how people form opinions, and who one wants to have a relationship with, but when it comes to legal consequences, I don't think such definitions are at all appropriate. My instinct is to disagree because I would hate to see a man I'm attracted to get charged with harrassment, but you do raise a good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Bonam and Mr. C. - totally off-topic but since the three of us are back again tonight... You won't believe what happened to me in Safeway today. I kid you not, I could not believe it after last night's discussion. I chuckled and thought of both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Bonam and Mr. C. - totally off-topic but since the three of us are back again tonight... You won't believe what happened to me in Safeway today. I kid you not, I could not believe it after last night's discussion. I chuckled and thought of both of you. Ok well you cannot possibly put a huge Matzo ball like that out there and leave us hanging....what happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 My instinct is to disagree because I would hate to see a man I'm attracted to get charged with harrassment... I would hate even more for a person that is innocent of any wrongdoing to get charged with harassment. Personally, I do not think that simply looking at someone should ever constitute an actionable offense. Now, I'm not a woman and thus cannot see things from that perspective, but it seems to me that simply being looked at by someone could not be so emotionally scarring that someone should lose their job over it. I've had people look at me before too: women, gay men. Let me tell you, I wasn't particularly overjoyed having gay men look at me. But so long as all they were doing was looking, it was always within my power to remove myself from the situation, to ask them to discontinue, or just to disregard it and not let it bother me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Bonam and Mr. C. - totally off-topic but since the three of us are back again tonight... You won't believe what happened to me in Safeway today. I kid you not, I could not believe it after last night's discussion. I chuckled and thought of both of you. Haha, did someone bump into your cart and try to pick you up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Ok well you cannot possibly put a huge Matzo ball like that out there and leave us hanging....what happened? You're right sorry, I shouldn't have brought it up. I just found it incredibly odd after last night's chat. I think you get the jist of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) Haha, did someone bump into your cart and try to pick you up? Lol. HWne you bump them, you say sorry and get her to smile. If she smiles and touches her hair you have a chance. You're right sorry, I shouldn't have brought it up. I just found it incredibly odd after last night's chat. I think you get the jist of it. I let you behind the curtain and gave you glimpse into a guys mind. I think I've scarred you for life...lol. Edited September 30, 2012 by Mr.Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Lol. HWne you bump them, you say sorry and get her to smile. If she smiles and touches her hair you have a chance. I've honestly never tried the grocery store pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I would hate even more for a person that is innocent of any wrongdoing to get charged with harassment. Personally, I do not think that simply looking at someone should ever constitute an actionable offense. Now, I'm not a woman and thus cannot see things from that perspective, but it seems to me that simply being looked at by someone could not be so emotionally scarring that someone should lose their job over it. It's not about emotional scarring, it's about professionalism. I've had people look at me before too: women, gay men. Let me tell you, I wasn't particularly overjoyed having gay men look at me. But so long as all they were doing was looking, it was always within my power to remove myself from the situation, to ask them to discontinue, or just to disregard it and not let it bother me. At work you can't really remove yourself from the situation though and it gets worse if the person who keeps looking is in a position of power. No man or woman should have to endure that 40 hours per week. You wouldn't like it if your gay boss or coworker was always oggling you would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Having a situation go on for "40 hours per week" and having someone look when they happen to see you now and then are very different things though. And a boss that uses their position of power inappropriately is a whole different issue altogether. I guess there is a dividing line somewhere, but if there are to be real sanctions that may cause someone to lose their job as a result, I stand by my belief that the rules need to be defined objectively rather than subjectively. If certain behavior is to be disallowed in the workplace, it should be disallowed universally, and not based on how someone might perceive it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I let you behind the curtain and gave you glimpse into a guys mind. I think I've scarred you for life...lol. Yes you did. I kept wondering if he thinks I'm dressed like an abortioner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) It's not about emotional scarring, it's about professionalism. At work you can't really remove yourself from the situation though and it gets worse if the person who keeps looking is in a position of power. No man or woman should have to endure that 40 hours per week. You wouldn't like it if your gay boss or coworker was always oggling you would you? No one should be made to feel uncomfortable, that's for sure. I thnk that a glance is normal and probably not noticable but if someone is staring at your chest, ass, crotch, package or whatever then that is a serious problem. At the same time I don't think the answer to every problem is a sexual harrassment lawsuit. I think that that steps hould be taken before it gets to the last resort solution. I have to say that if my wife came home saying some guy was doing something like this and making her cry I'd want to go and sort him out. I'd probably adsvise her to go to a superior or to HR to see if something can be done. Yes you did. I kept wondering if he thinks I'm dressed like an abortioner. Lol. I wrote that half tonque and cheek. The stereotypes somewhat fit, otherwise what good are stereotypes if they aren't accurate....haha. Edited September 30, 2012 by Mr.Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Yes you did. I kept wondering if he thinks I'm dressed like an abortioner. Doubt it. I don't think many men in Vancouver concern themselves too much over the issue of abortion, it is pretty widely accepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Doubt it. I don't think many men in Vancouver concern themselves too much over the issue of abortion, it is pretty widely accepted. I was taking a jab at Mr. C. I wasn't really thinking that. K, guys, I gotta get some sleep (Mr. C in Ontario, I can't believe you're still up). I still don't think you can define sexual harrasment in easy terms like 'no means no', but you've left me with something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I still don't think you can define sexual harrasment in easy terms like 'no means no', but you've left me with something to think about. Then my job here is done Night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Canada Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I go to bed early and don't sleep very much. I wake up early so I can play poker against Europeans when they are tired. Increases my $/hr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 It was comedy, it wasn't meant to be taken literally. Yes, I realize that, which is why I objected to the "so true" response. It's not true, and to suggest otherwise, is insulting to women. Furthermore, the workplace and the gym are two different environments. Yes, attractive men can be creeps too. But the point as I understood it, is that if there is a mutual attraction between the man and woman (not necessarily an attractive man), the woman would be more reciprocal to exact same behaviour she may find offensive in another man. I see some truth to that. I see a lot of logic in that, as in that would be a given. For example, if the woman works with her husband or someone she is dating, of course she's going to feel differently about it coming from them (but it's still unprofessional in the work place). The definition of harassment, however, states "undesired behavior," and rightfully so. Just because a woman and a man in the workplace share a mutual attraction doesn't mean she has to accept/be comfortable with the same behavior from every man in the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 (edited) This is why there are so many single women in their 30's. Too bloody uptight. You girls need to relax and realize that not every man isn't out to do you harm. Oh, this is hilarious. The reason there are so many single women in their 30's is that they choose to be single - because they have more options available to them than women have had in the past. Women are marrying later, having kids later (or choosing single parenthood if they don't want to automatically marry if they become pregnant), building careers, traveling - ie: living their own life before they choose to settle down and live the married/parenthood life. In other words, they are single because they like it. Edited September 30, 2012 by American Woman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted September 30, 2012 Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 I would hate even more for a person that is innocent of any wrongdoing to get charged with harassment. Personally, I do not think that simply looking at someone should ever constitute an actionable offense. Now, I'm not a woman and thus cannot see things from that perspective, but it seems to me that simply being looked at by someone could not be so emotionally scarring that someone should lose their job over it. I've had people look at me before too: women, gay men. Let me tell you, I wasn't particularly overjoyed having gay men look at me. But so long as all they were doing was looking, it was always within my power to remove myself from the situation, to ask them to discontinue, or just to disregard it and not let it bother me. A complaint to Human Resources doesn't necessarily result in a charge of harassment; in fact, I'd be willing to bet that it seldom does. Once a guy is warned, it's within his power to stop the behavior. If he doesn't, and he eventually loses his job, he has no one to blame but himself. (And I'm not talking an accidental glance that lasts less than a second - who would take that seriously??) The same goes for women. With more women in positions of power within the workplace, that's becoming more of an issue, and plenty of men don't like it, either. It's not about emotional scarring, it's about professionalism. At work you can't really remove yourself from the situation though and it gets worse if the person who keeps looking is in a position of power. No man or woman should have to endure that 40 hours per week. I totally agree; it's exactly what I've been saying. But it is also about "emotional scarring." If a woman feels that she has to accept this kind of behavior in the work world, undesired behavior, and she has to work to earn a living, it is an emotional issue as well as a professional issue. In the past, this type of behavior used to be, for the most part, acceptable; there were no harassment laws/rules within the workplace, and for the most part women felt as if they had to accept it - or risk losing their jobs. It's not a joking matter, especially for people who have lived through it and really had no options, and I think some of the insinuations/videos posted in this thread make women look like flakes who desire such attention if only the man is good looking and/or can flatter her about her body. No one should be made to feel uncomfortable, that's for sure. Which has been my point all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 The problem you have, Argus, is lack of self control. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read it. Fact of the matter is, considering what I think of the source, your not liking what I have to say pleases me no end. Do you honestly think there's anyone here who likes what you have to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 If she notices you noticing, then you've probably stepped over the noticing line, right through the glance stage, and are somewhere around the looking stage or beyond. I think the point is that it's completely inappropriate to treat a woman as a thing for consumption. It's dehumanizing. I think you're forgetting what being human actually means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2012 Of course you don't, but then 1 in 3 men aren't sexually abused in their lifetimes. Define 'sexually abused' and cite the survey, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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