Uk Police allow Muslim gang to continue raping up to 50 white girls

[Guest Peeves]

that's obviously bullshit because they have had no problems arresting and sentencing other brown skinned people who have raped.

you sir are trying to create a story out of nothing. grow up.

What a guy. Every time I step into a post of his, I find "bullshit."

Oh well, so long as I know it's there huh.

Selective viewing of points and a diversion to 'sentencing of other brown skinned people...yada yada"

What is the point of that diversion? I fail to see how it in any way diminishes the points made. And I might just defer to your expertise in making a story out of nothing, but not in this case. There is a story.

[kraychik]

Some people like to cry racist at the drop of a hat. I think it leads to this sort of bullshit.

Which people?

[Guest Peeves]

This is a pretty old story. The police did admit they didn't interfere because they were afraid of being labelled racist. Social services did not act, even tho these were young girls underage. They were not just raped, but turned out as prostitutes.

Some people like to cry racist at the drop of a hat. I think it leads to this sort of bullshit. The judge in the case dismissed the allegations of racism made by the perpetrators. I think the people who need to be investigated are the officials who knew about this and did nothing. When the police in Vancouver didn't act while Willie Pickton went on his murderous rampage, they were accused of racism because many of the victims were Indigenous. This incident in England is the reverse side of that coin.

Good points. There's still many missing along "The Highway Of Tears" in B.C.

[Michael Hardner]

You're not a left-winger? Thanks for proving my point that those on the left often view themselves as "moderates" or "centrists". You're objective, unbiased, and fair. You're post-ideology, post-partisan, and you only want to do "what works". Right?

Correct.

And, we're now on day two but you still haven't provided any basis for several of your accusations.

There are people on this board who don't like certain groups of people, but they at least can provide a proper argument. This discussion is frustrating because you make accusations then run away.

[bleeding heart]

Just pointing out that it's not just the opinion of the one former MP, which you were making reference to.

But I was talking about the articles originally posted, on which the discussion as centred.

I do take your point, certainly. But what I said remains precisely the case, as the further information you've provided was not part of the original citation, nor the discussion.

[bleeding heart]

When the police in Vancouver didn't act while Willie Pickton went on his murderous rampage, they were accused of racism because many of the victims were Indigenous. This incident in England is the reverse side of that coin.

Yes....and not to derail this thread, but sicne you mentioned it, I actually disagree with the point.

My opinion is that the authorities weren't sufficiently galvanized in that case because most of the victims were lower-class, and many of them were prostitutes.

So, same carefree ugliness, different smell.

[Guest American Woman]

Some people like to cry racist at the drop of a hat. I think it leads to this sort of bullshit.

Why should it lead to this sort of bullshit? Why can't someone who knows they aren't racist and aren't acting in a racist manner have the conviction and courage to act when they should - especially when there are innocent lives at stake? Why are people so afraid of being labeled a racist by the ilk you describe - instead of standing up to those who "like to cry racist at the drop of a hat?" Why not criticize them, call them on their accusations, as they deserve?

Too many people are cowards if they are being kowtowed into not acting when they should for fear of being called 'racist' by the likes of the 'racist!' crowd.

I think the people who need to be investigated are the officials who knew about this and did nothing.

It sounds as if that's what the investigation into the matter is centered on.

[bleeding heart]

Too many people are cowards if they are being kowtowed into not acting when they should for fear of being called 'racist' by the likes of the 'racist!' crowd.

I agree completely. While I understand the chilling effect that political correctness can have, those in authority who fail to act based on these fears are simply not doing their jobs, and blame cannot be forever and 100% deflected.

[Canuckistani]

I agree completely. While I understand the chilling effect that political correctness can have, those in authority who fail to act based on these fears are simply not doing their jobs, and blame cannot be forever and 100% deflected.

Blame shouldn't be deflected at all, the authorities screwed up. But, the racist criers should also take some blame, IMO. It's what we see on Indiginous reserves. If the police act, they're labelled as racists, if they don't, they're racists for not doing anything. And then we'll hold an inquiry, where all sorts of outrageous allegations are made, which is why the authorities get gun shy. Yes, there's racism all over the place, including the police, but there's also this reverse sort of bullshit, which is also racism. Look at Caledonia. There's no other group in Canada that would be allowed to run riot like that, no matter the validity of their grievance, with instead the white people being persecuted by police.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Canuckistani

[bleeding heart]

Blame shouldn't be deflected at all, the authorities screwed up. But, the racist criers should also take some blame, IMO.

Sure, and that was clearly part of my point.

But so far in this debate, it seems to me that everyone (with the exception of American Woman, bless her heart) is placing the blame squarely and only at the feet of those crying "racist," and of possible politically correct effects...as if the authorities have no choice.

That is, the people with the most power are let off the hook...not an unusual formulation, though thankfully not universal.

It's an interesting phenomenon--this shifting of blame to certain social mores, as if they're everything. But they're not everything...the very fact they're continually contested and criticized is solid proof of this.

On other debates, I've watched a couple posters blame "the left" for the behaviour of conservatives ()....this is basically the same approach to argumentation, and it's ridiculous. No one can be responsible for their behaviour...because of the effects of "the left," or of poltiical correctness.

I call bull.

Because while political correctness is sometimes used as a weapon to stifle action and debate...anti-political correctness frequently fulfills exactly the same irrational role.

I find the whole thing quite fascinating, personally, if not in an especially good way.

[Canuckistani]

Sure, and that was clearly part of my point.

But so far in this debate, it seems to me that everyone (with the exception of American Woman, bless her heart) is placing the blame squarely and only at the feet of those crying "racist," and of possible politically correct effects...as if the authorities have no choice.

That is, the people with the most power are let off the hook...not an unusual formulation, though thankfully not universal.

It's an interesting phenomenon--this shifting of blame to certain social mores, as if they're everything. But they're not everything...the very fact they're continually contested and criticized is solid proof of this.

On other debates, I've watched a couple posters blame "the left" for the behaviour of conservatives ()....this is basically the same approach to argumentation, and it's ridiculous. No one can be responsible for their behaviour...because of the effects of "the left," or of poltiical correctness.

I call bull.

Because while political correctness is sometimes used as a weapon to stifle action and debate...anti-political correctness frequently fulfills exactly the same irrational role.

I find the whole thing quite fascinating, personally, if not in an especially good way.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but you'll have to explain the anti-political correctness part to me a bit more.

[bleeding heart]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but you'll have to explain the anti-political correctness part to me a bit more.

Well, for the pertinent example here, many of the posters (again, with the exception of AW...and yourself) have focussed entirely on the cries of "racism" being the primary factor. That's the "anti-pc" bit that can and sometimes does overtake a more nuanced discussion...just as pc itself is charged with.

But cries of "racism" are not the primary factor. It's maybe a contributing factor. The primary factor is the authorities' failure (if that's the case...investigation is ongoing, so I understand).

And elsewhere, people have been routinely denounced for "political correctness" for everything from their opinions on climate change, to opposing this or that war. It's preposterous.

And don't get me wrong; I consider it relatively trivial.

But so are the overwhelming majority of instances of genuine "political correctness." So that something no more than a trivial irritant becomes overblown as "chilling the debate" and so on.

I've read three posters today, all from the poltiical right, complaing that disagreement amoutns to stifling them.

I have little patience for this nonsense...that my supposed "pc tendencies" are stifling them. Stifling them....how? Exactly how?

Further still, if "political correctness" has any meaning, the scope of it has to broadened. So when someone says (as they have, to me, many times) "why don't you support the troops?"...well, that, too, is political correctness.

There are numerous examples, no doubt, from all over the political spectrum. It can no longer be viewed as a leftist phenomenon, if it ever was.

As a silly old not-too-pc lefty, I'm getting extremely bored with the charge. If we're going to be honest about the bad effects of political correctness--ie chilling debate, affecting action and even policy thanks to conventional thinking and fears of being labelled this or that--then by all means, let's spread the misery around.

Personally, I believe that a few very real instances aside, most charges of "pc" are entirely trivial and exaggerated...to put it generously.

[jacee]

I'm not convinced that pc fear of being called racist was the main factor in not pressing charges the first time. It's the hot button pounced upon by some here, but I recall "no prospect of conviction" as the outcome, unfortunately too common in rape cases. Clearly the police continued to investigate, and the charges and sentences are substantial.

[bleeding heart]

I'm not convinced that pc fear of being called racist was the main factor in not pressing charges the first time.

No, so far it's speculative, for sure.

[Guest American Woman]

Of course it's "speculative;" it's always going to be/remain speculative unless the police force comes right out and says, 'we didn't investigate out of fear of being labeled racist,' and I just don't see that happening.

This is from Aug. 5, 2012 (excerpts - emphasis mine):

Police are failing to investigate crimes committed by ethnic minorities because they fear being branded racist, a report claims.

A pamphlet by

think-tank Civitas

, released today, says pressure to show racial sensitivity may have been behind the initial failure to properly investigate Asian street grooming gangs in the North of England.

This year a gang from Rochdale were jailed for plying teenage girls with alcohol before raping them.

The court heard up to 47 vulnerable girls were passed around the group and forced to have sex several times a week, but two years before action was finally taken, police missed an opportunity to stop the gang when a 15-year-old girl told them she had been raped.

Mr Davies, a former Labour councillor, describes the lack of investigation into sex crimes as a case of ‘reverse’ institutional racism in which the views of victims, vulnerable white girls, were not taken seriously.

The report states

: ‘When in February 2012, the trial of a number of Pakistani men finally came to court,

it seems that allegations of abuse by one (white) girl had been just ignored by the police’

.

link

Certainly "not pressing charges" and "ignored by the police" are two very different things.

-------------

I find it ironic how willing some people are to believe that police officers are racist, without all that much evidence, while all but dismissing a claim of the police being too PC, ie: being afraid of being labeled racist.

[bleeding heart]

I find it ironic how willing some people are to believe that police officers are racist, without all that much evidence, while all but dismissing a claim of the police being too PC, ie: being afraid of being labeled racist.

I hope you're not talking about me, AW

I not only never even hinted that the police are racist--and would give them the benefit of the doubt unless real evidence (rather than politicized claims) were offered...

....I also, personally, do believe that political correctness is probably part of the issue here; but have chosen to reserve judgement, and not make absolute claims until more facts are in.

[Guest American Woman]

I hope you're not talking about me, AW

It was a broad statement, and it was not made with you in mind, so no, I'm not.

....I also, personally, do believe that political correctness is probably part of the issue here; but have chosen to reserve judgement, and not make absolute claims until more facts are in.

That certainly wasn't clear, given jacee's comment and your response to it:

Jacee: I'm not convinced that pc fear of being called racist was the main factor in not pressing charges the first time.

You: No, so far it's speculative, for sure.

It certainly sounded as if you were all but dismissing the possibility, especially because it wasn't a matter of "not pressing charges," but of "not investigating." Two very different things, as I said. But be that as it may, the report from "think-tank Civitas" certainly seems to be leaning in the direction that the fear of being labeled racist was a factor, especially when the first girl complained and it seems as if nothing was done; that her allegations had just been ignored by the police.

BTW - I've not made any absolute claims myself, but I'm not dismissing the very real possibility; the more I read about it, the more is sounds likely that the fear of being labeled racist was a factor.

Edited September 26, 2012 by American Woman

[bleeding heart]

It was a broad statement, and it was not made with you in mind, so no, I'm not.

Ok, thanks.

That certainly wasn't clear, given jacee's comment and your response to it:

Jacee: I'm not convinced that pc fear of being called racist was the main factor in not pressing charges the first time.

You: No, so far it's speculative, for sure.

It certainly sounded as if you were all but dismissing the possibility

Sure, yeah, I get what you mean.

So in that light, allow me to clarify, and to put it in a better way: I do suspect that some sort of oversensitivity to racial issues is at play; but I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong, and so am "deferring judgement"....though honestly I somewhat doubt I'll see anything to change my view. Time will (maybe) tell.

Edited September 26, 2012 by bleeding heart