Canadian Diplomacy In Action

[I miss Reagan]

OTTAWA (Reuters) - It was damned bastards last year, "idiots" this year.

Canadian Member of Parliament Carolyn Parrish had said she hated "damned Americans" and called them bastards in the run-up to the Iraq war. She found a new moniker, idiots, on Wednesday in discussing the planned U.S. missile defense system.

"We are not joining the coalition of the idiots. We are joining the coalition of the wise," the Liberal legislator told a small group of demonstrators.

Legislator calls US 'Idiots'

Is there any question as to why the border is still closed to beef. Unfortunately the US cares so little about us to do any real damage.

[kimmy]

The best part...

Parrish then begged reporters not to use the remarks: "Please guys don't put that on tape," she said. "I already got into trouble once.... Really, please, I've had enough trouble."

-kimmy

[maplesyrup]

The reality is most Canadians agree with Parrish concerning Star Wars or Missle Defence or whatever the spin doctors want to call it. Jack Layton should send her a New Democrat application form

[I miss Reagan]

The reality is most Canadians agree with Parrish concerning Star Wars or Missle Defence  or whatever the spin doctors want to call it. Jack Layton should send her a New Democrat application form

You're probably right. And Canadians would also agree with all the other insults Parrish throws at Americans. And the reasons are obvious. Canadians, such as yourself, are taught to hate Americans through our media and education system. It's shameful. But what do you expect from the most anti-American non-muslim country in the world.

[caesar]

And the reasons are abvious. Canadians, such as yourself, are taught to hate Americans through our media and education system.

Sorry< it is not our media nor education system. It has been Mr Bush with his arrogant attitude and punitive trade actions that have made Canadians dislike the American government and big business. Invading a country without UN support after using bribes, threats and forged or fraudulent intelligence. What's to like or respect there.

[RB]

Jack Layton should send her a New Democrat application form 

why so?

because she knows now and also have the experience to beg

The best part...

 

Parrish then begged reporters not to use the remarks: "Please guys don't put that on tape," she said. "I already got into trouble once.... Really, please, I've had enough trouble."

[maplesyrup]

Parrish is on "As it Happens" right now and said actually that Americans are being let down by their leaders. She also said she got 28,000 votes in the last election, so she has lots of support. She does not apologise, that is her, she says. She cannot support the illegal war in Iraq, and does not want to see a second mistake made with this missle defence scheme.

[maplesyrup]

This is the little game that is played when Canada does not support the moronic US policies like the War in Iraq.

I think it is the other way around, Americans hate Canadians.

Seriously though, Canadians do not support Bush's idiotic policies. Get it! It has nothing to do with liking or not liking Americans. And I resent those moronic comments, my closest relatives live in the US. It was my American uncle who warned us a long time ago that he was afraid that the US was becoming fascist. Unfortunately he has a point.

[idealisttotheend]

Idiots is uncalled for... but she is entitled to her opinion without the obligatory rant against the counrty being "the most non muslim anti-American state." (The Americans are not popular with pretty much the entire world these days including in counties whose governments suppport American policy). In any case this is a democracy and there is such a thing as free speech and the free exchange of opinions. Shouldn't that be what we are talking about anyway? The actual merits of the position being debated (and Yes the MP in question's comments about idiots doesn't do that as well as it could but it shouldn't be used for a new round of front page news "look who spoke out of turn about the big bad Americans.")

After all are these actions more on the wise side or the not so wise among many other arguments?

Black Dog --"What do you guys think about Star Wars" thread

In 2001 (after 9-11), a Senate committeeapproved the president's request for $8.3 billion for missile defense for the fiollowing fiscal year -- a $3 billion increase over te previous fiscal year's funding. Similarly, the House on approved $7.9 billion for missile defense as part of the $343 billion defense authorization bill.

In contrast (and keep in mind, this wasbefore the smoke had even cleared from the Twin towers), the Senate did give the President the authority to spend $1.3 billion of the money set aside for missile defense to combat terrorism and the House designated $400 million for anti-terrorism efforts. In all, Congress has approved about $6 billion for improved counter-terrorism efforts - a total amount that is substantially less than either chamber approved for missile defense.

Prior to 9-11, the DoD vetoed a request to divert $800 million from missile defense into counterterrorism.

[caesar]

that being said; I must admit; I think she should have her butt kicked out of office now. She is acting and talking like an idiot herself. She should show a little more dignity to the office she holds.

[Cartman]

I must say that I truly dislike when politicians speak so conservatively and in such coded form that a person needs a degree in modern languages to understand and interpret what is being said. This allows them to flip flop too easily. I appreciate when politicians are honest and forthright, but there must be a way of doing so without resorting to such inflammatory language.

Conan (another American who hates all Americans) did a show on this issue. He noted that one Cdn politician referred to Bush as a moron while another called him an idiot. Bush reacted angrily and yelled "moron or idiot...which is it!"

[kimmy]

Parrish, and people here who are supporting her, should reflect for a moment on what she's accomplished.

When Joe Canadian hears about this, what is he going to hear?

"Canadian MP expresses concerns about Star Wars"

or is it

"Canadian MP calls Americans idiots"

Guess what, she has shot her message in the foot by choosing controversial language.

She is a lot like the globalization protesters. When Joe Canadian turns on his evening news and sees footage of people wearing masks and hockey helmets and protective padding, carrying bats or hockey sticks, waving signs written in extremist language, storming around smashing windows at McDonalds locations... throwing stuff at police, storming barricades, clashing with cops, burning stuff in effigy... Joe Canadian does not see these people on TV and think "Gee, these people must have a pretty important message!" Joe Canadian sees these people on TV and thinks "Holy, these people are wackos! They look like thugs. They act like thugs. They're lunatics!"

If the globalization protesters wanted to get their message across, they would be better off to show up wearing suits and ties and speaking in the most polite language.

If Carolyn Parrish wants to get her message across, she would do better to politely present the facts.

-kimmy

[idealisttotheend]

Kimmy you make a good point (as usual) but consider:

When Joe Canadian hears about this, what is he going to hear?

"Canadian MP expresses concerns about Star Wars"

or is it

"Canadian MP calls Americans idiots"

will anyone pay attention to the first. Had Parrish said "I have some very serious concerns about the geo-political military balance being upset by Star Wars and also the allocation of resources to super weapons instead of to people on the ground and in the streets where the actual threats are prone to come from," would anyone listen.

Would she get play on TV?

A story on A1 or A3 in the paper?

Would we discuss it on this board (I posted one Ms. Neville's desicive and overarching comments on the matter and it got one two sentance response from Stoker -- tell me without looking it up -- who is Ms. Neville, what did she say?) This thread has 11 responses and will only grow larger.

Globalization? If a scholary report is issued tommorrow and finance ministers meet for the next round of the MAI talks will it get on the news and if so in what position and how much time will it get? If a 'protest' decides to set a McDonald's on fire you can bet the satellite trucks will be rolling and the remotes set up for the breaking news.

This is not to say I support this, quite the contrary I think we need to raise the level of political discourse significantly. But facts are facts and we can bet that Ms. Parrish has raised more peoples attention to opposition to Star Wars than Ms. Neville. Ms. Parrish represented that opposition poorly but facts are facts and news cycles news cycles/

[idealisttotheend]

(technical difficulties)

[I miss Reagan]

Canadians are very anti-american. Yes I know we like to think of ourselves as 'tolerant' but the truth is Canadians are selectively tolerant. Tolerant as long as we agree with what they say. The fact that 40% of teenage Canadians (a group apathetic to politics) think Americans are "evil" is proof enough for me. The fact that, as MS stated, 28,000 people showed their support for Parrish by relecting her. The claim that "no I like Americans, just not American policy" or "Bush". Before Bush is was Reagan. Well guess who voted these guys in to form American policy? Americans. Quit trying to fool yourselves into thinking you're this objective and tolerant people. You're anti-American

[August1991]

Canadians are very anti-american.

No, Canadians are very anti-Republican. Many Canadians would feel quite at home in Massachusetts.

[Cartman]

IMR raises some really interesting and important points. Average Canadians do not love Americans as they used to when I was a kid, though I admit to having nothing but experience to suggest as much. I remember the solidarity that existed before and just after we helped the US hostages out of Iran. It has been some time since relations were that positive.

To an extent, I agree with the contention that some people use coded messages such as “I just hate Bush, not all Americans” as a way to hide their prejudices (against Americans). Expression of hatred is more sophisticated than in the Archie Bunker days. As well, it is not a far stretch to argue that hatred of a government can very easily turn into a hatred for an entire nation (i.e. Nazi’s and Germans, “the evil empire” and ordinary Soviets etc). Having said that, however, I am not convinced that disliking and expressing a dislike for a political leader or administration always translates into a dislike for an entire nation. I really do not like some of our elected political leaders, but I love my country.

Whether a fondness for Americans generates any economic benefits is another matter and I am a little skeptical on this one. We do have problems with the US and we need to hold our own. But, the suggestion that we ensure not to foster a climate of hatred against anyone regardless of their sex, ethnicity and nationality is a point well taken and not to be so easily dismissed. IMO, I do not think many Canadians are anti-American or hate Americans, but it has reached a point where we need to be more reflexive and careful. Stupid statements from our elected officials sought after hungrily by our sensationalist media does not help anyone.

[idealisttotheend]

I think August is right. When Clinton was around there was an awful lot less talk about anti-Americanism, in fact Clinton assisted during the referendum as I recall. When there was talk about anti Americanism it tended to resolve around American corporations among economic nationalists regarding things like the FTA and NAFTA. Canada, even under a conservative government, simply tends to get along better with a Democrat in the white house than a Republican. It may be as simple as the fact that a Democrat regiem signs on to international treaties and does not engage in controversial wars (and then punish the "unwilling" after) so there is little reason for anti Americanism.

On the other hand though I think a polarization may have taken place. Among strong conservatives in places like southern Alberta I think there is a large increase in American support and 'solidarity' under Bush while those on the left tend to be more anti-American policy than usual.

To an extent, I agree with the contention that some people use coded messages such as “I just hate Bush, not all Americans” as a way to hide their prejudices (against Americans).

I don't think I've ever met or read anyone with a problem with the average American, just policies of the American government. But that's just my experience I guess others could be different.

[I miss Reagan]

Cartman I like the balance you bring to the discussion. I think you're right that many Canadians dislike Republicans. Considering that 70% of Canada is liberal or left it would make sense. However I still believe that there is serious anti-Americanism among Canadians that goes beyond harmless rivelry or the usual jealousy that Canadians harbour. There are those of us, however, who miss the days when Reagan and Mulroney keep our countries close.