Should Petro-Canada have been privitized?

[Big Blue Machine]

I don't think the government should have privitized Petro-Canada. It's a very profitable company. You can buy some of Petro-Canada and lower your taxes because Petro-Canada will hopefully supply the money needed for income tax cuts or health care money. And with these high gas prices, profit is big. I'm saying this knowing that I'm Conservative.

What do you guys think?

[Cartman]

I am against selling off this corporation. If I am not mistaken, Trudeau wanted the government to have a presence in the market to know what was actually happening and to have a measure of influence if needed. The government should retain a majority of the shares.

[Big Blue Machine]

I heard that Petro-Canada stock has tripled in value since Trudeau created it in 76.

[Cartman]

I think you are right and the Lib. gov't is probably quite excited about the short-term benefits of selling it off when prices are high.

I have no problem with private corporations being heavily involved in energy, but I become a little nervous about having no government presence when it is such a vital/essential service.

Having said that, I think we need to determine what is a public service and how gov'ts should be involved in them.

[Big Blue Machine]

Petro-Canada isn't a public necessity but it's nice to have it for profits.

[August1991]

What if the federal government sells the shares, gives you the money and then if you want, you can buy the shares yourself? IOW, why force people to own shares when they don't want to? Maybe Canadians have better things to do with that cash?

As to the idea of owning the shares to "know what's going on", doesn't the federal government have huge bureaucracies with the right to get information? Surely the Revenue Agency has the info. Or StatsCan. Do you really mean that the government has to make a several billion dollar investment "to know what's going on"?

And what does the government need to know anyway?

[Big Blue Machine]

What are you talking about?

[August1991]

What are you talking about?

If the federal government privatizes Petro-Canada, it will sell the shares. Why not simply mail us the shares instead and let us decide whether to hold them or sell them? Some people may prefer the cash rather than holding Petrocan shares.

[ticker]

I heard that Petro-Canada stock has tripled in value since Trudeau created it in 76.

And how much of that money indirectly came out of Alberta by using preferential treatment and unfair practices under PET's watch.

Air Canada stock would be worth more then westjet if the liberals stayed with trudeau's plan to rob the taxpayers when ever there was a problem with one of his national companies.

[takeanumber]

I'm in favour of selling the stock.

I don't see the public utlity in having the federal government owning that stock.

[Cartman]

If the federal government privatizes Petro-Canada, it will sell the shares. Why not simply mail us the shares instead and let us decide whether to hold them or sell them? Some people may prefer the cash rather than holding Petrocan shares.

The desision to create PCan had nothing to do with giving CDNs shares. It was about the gov't gaining both knowledge and a strong presence in the energy sector. If I recall correctly, in 1973 OPEC had reduced oil supplies thereby precipitating an "oil shortage" in North America. The economy was in serious trouble. There were LONG lineups at the pumps and Trudeau believed that American oil companies were taking inordinate profits and not disseminating accurate information about why prices were so high when supplies had not significantly diminished. At this time, there was a minor Cdn presence in our own energy sector so he created PCan to exert a measure of control. In any case, PCan began with a $1.5 billion investment and has grown dramatically since it was enacted by Parliament in 1975. It has also been one of the largest investors in the tar sands and on the east coast and has been responsible for training others who later established Cdn oil companies themselves.

BTW...more recently, Glen Clark formed a commission to investigate why gas prices fluctuated so dramatically in BC. Again, this was done on the basis of a lack of information or a perceived lack of information.

[playfullfellow]

My first preference is that the government should not be in the business of doing business but with PetroCan, we have a company that shows a fairly decent return and has made profits. I don't seem to remember too many scandals when it comes to PetroCan either. If the long term forcast shows that the company would have kept making money, then why not keep it and use those profits to benefit Canadians? Now the Liberals have "X" number of dollars that they will just piss away in the wind with no future return.

[Big Blue Machine]

A dollar made from Petro-Can, is a dollar that can be used to finacning tax cuts or health care

[playfullfellow]

A dollar made from Petro-Can, is a dollar that can be used to finacning tax cuts or health care

LMAO, you know as well as I do, the money would be spent on useless stuff like free haircuts and crap for our politicians. The only tax cuts there would be would only benefit the politicians and their ilk. Any miniscule amount we might get would be irelevant to out annual take home pay.

[idealisttotheend]

I don't think the Federal government acutally receives any dividends from Petro-Can anyway. It just holds the stock.

[August1991]

If you were the CEO of a company, who would you rather have holding the shares of the company you manage: 1) general public, 2) pension fund or 3) federal government?

In each of these cases, what do you think you would spend much of your time doing?

[idealisttotheend]

If you were the CEO of a company, who would you rather have holding the shares of the company you manage: 1) general public, 2) pension fund or 3) federal government?

In each of these cases, what do you think you would spend much of your time doing?

I would rather have the general public holding the shares because a pension fund nor the government would pay the sort of salaries you can get with publically held companies.

1) General Public -- I would worry about share prices in the short term and trying to get taken over or not taken over as the situation is.

2) Pension fund -- here I'd worry about more medium -long term prospects than with General Public.

3) Federal Government -- mostly political considerations whatever they are du jour. Note that political considerations may be low prices or equal access or whatever not necessarily cynical considerations.

In any case though, EPCOR in Edmonton is owned by the city government and it's a well run proffessional and profitable corporation. The Crowns in Saskatchewan do pretty well also.

[maplesyrup]

I actually thought Trudeau purchased Petro Canada so that there would be Canadian maple leafs throughout Quebec.

[maplesyrup]

I actually thought Trudeau purchased Petro Canada so that there would be Canadian maple leafs throughout Quebec.

Governments need to be involved in all essential services, they are just too important to be left up to the whims of the market place. Look at the effects of the disasterous deregulation of the energy sector in the Western US with Enron, etc. They have never recovered from those high electricity prices.

[caesar]

I would want Petcocanada to remain in the government hands. That way at least some of our industry will be controlled by Canada not from some foreign country.

[ticker]

I actually thought Trudeau purchased Petro Canada so that there would be Canadian maple leafs throughout Quebec.

that just about sums it up.

the cost outweighed the benifites

[Big Blue Machine]

How much did it cost?

[August1991]

I actually thought Trudeau purchased Petro Canada so that there would be Canadian maple leafs throughout Quebec.

There's some truth to that.

Petro Canada started during the Liberal minority government of 72-74. The NDP Lewis got Trudeau to pass the legislation. Then, Petro Canada started buying companies. One big purchase was PetroFina primarily because it had a retail distribution in eastern Canada.

I have no idea what the whole venture cost.

[Big Blue Machine]

Everyone liked the crown coporation during the seventies, they thought it was essential for being completely self-sufficent in natural resources.