Are all quebecors and francophone racist?

Canuckistani · September 5, 2012

Multipost.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Canuckistani

PIK · September 5, 2012

Harpers reaction will make everyone in Canada look bad. Not what he did, you see, but what he will do. I cannot show you what he will do because he hasn't done it yet...very much along your line that whatever Marois does will make Quebec look bad.

My point being who gives a shit if you don't like the way Quebecers look. I most certainly don't.

Then don't bother posting here then.

PIK · September 5, 2012

Where are you from PIK?

Is everyone there as prejudiced as you?

I live on the quebec border, so I have a idea what goes on over there. And have been paying close attention to thier politics for many years. And back to the question, where has harper ever acted like the racist marios?

TheNewTeddy · September 5, 2012

No, not all Quebeckers are racist. The PQ is racist.

I'm quoting my own post because I want to make one thing clear.

Had I been outside the back door of the PQ rally, I'd have tried to stop the madman and even taken a bullet if needed.

I may despise the PQ but they won the election. Democracy is how we make our decisions, not violence.

Smallc · September 5, 2012

I may despise the PQ but they won the election.

I'm tired of hearing this. No they didn't. They barely eeked out a plurality. If Charest had kept his seat....

TheNewTeddy · September 5, 2012

Even if they lost, I would still take a bullet for our democracy.

PIK · September 5, 2012

I'm quoting my own post because I want to make one thing clear.

Had I been outside the back door of the PQ rally, I'd have tried to stop the madman and even taken a bullet if needed.

I may despise the PQ but they won the election. Democracy is how we make our decisions, not violence.

Most sane people would. Violence is not the way to go.

cybercoma · September 6, 2012

I'm tired of hearing this. No they didn't. They barely eeked out a plurality. If Charest had kept his seat....

haha. You're being pedantic. They still won the election.

Smallc · September 6, 2012

haha. You're being pedantic. They still won the election.

I don't count it as a win without a majority.

cybercoma · September 6, 2012

I don't count it as a win without a majority.

That's nice. I think anyone else talking about the election would say the PQ won.

Smallc · September 6, 2012

They didn't technically win though. Hell, Cherest didn't even have to resign. He would have had just as easy of a time to govern. They got the most seats, and it appears that the National Assembly will give them an opportunity to form a government. We'll see how that goes.

TheNewTeddy · September 6, 2012

We use an election system called FPTP

We've proposed changes in various referenda in various provinces. All rejected. People chose to stick with FPTP

FPTP says if you win 1 more vote than the next guy, you win the seat

As mentioned above, people continue to support this.

FPTP + our Parliamentary system says if you win 1 more seat than the next guy, you win the election.

As mentioned above, again, people continue to support this.

The PQ won the election. Sorry if you disagree with our democratic system, but that is how it works.

Smallc · September 7, 2012

FPTP + our Parliamentary system says if you win 1 more seat than the next guy, you win the election.

No, actually, that's not how a parliamentary system works. You don't win elections with a plurality, only a majority.

Wild Bill · September 7, 2012

That's nice. I think anyone else talking about the election would say the PQ won.

CC, back when Harper was ruling minority governments there were posts after posts after posts here in MLW claiming that Harper did not truly win his mandate! Convoluted mathematical formulae littered our screens purportedly showing that the majority of voters were against him, mostly by claiming that all who didn't vote would have been guaranteed to vote for one of the Opposition parties. Only a majority of not just the popular vote but a clear majority of the POSSIBLE vote would have satisfied Harper's critics!

I agree with you. The PQ won. Still, I think a lot of people should concede that Quebecers are still split on the issue and that Marois has no mandate for separation.

Otherwise they would have to admit to being hypocrites.

g_bambino · September 7, 2012

You're being pedantic. They still won the election.

Actually, he has a point about the possibility of the Liberals forming a coalition with another party. If they did so, Marois would not be appointed premier, which makes it difficult to say the PQ won.

Smallc · September 7, 2012

Actually, he has a point about the possibility of the Liberals forming a coalition with another party.

They wouldn't even need a formal coalition. They could have stayed as the government anyway...and I can't help but think that if Charest had won his seat, so 51, and the PQ 53, he might have tried to govern.

Tilter · September 7, 2012

Are all quebecors and francophone racist?

NO---- one of my Quebecois friends isn't and he still lives there.

One and counting

Antiochus · September 7, 2012

Are all quebecors and francophone racist?

NO---- one of my Quebecois friends isn't and he still lives there.

One and counting

As a francophone from Quebec, I would like to point out that threads like this are really not helping and are vindicating much of the PQ's thesis.

For starters, many here imply that Pauline Marois believes in the existence of a Québécois "race", that is absurd. Like most nationalists in the province, she certainly believes in the existence of a separate people, who's language and culture entitles them to a distinct nationhood, but I have yet to find a single occurrence of her talking about the francophones of Quebec as a distinct "race"; heck, the term "race" is completely outdated in the current political and scientific lexicon.

Also, people need to put the PQ's victory into context. For starters, the nationalistic and (sometimes, yes) borderline xenophobic political narrative that often permeates the PQ's message was either absent, or highly criticized when it surfaced. The PQ won a plurality because it was up against the most unpopular and allegedly corrupted government in living memory, not to mention that this same government had been in power for nearly a decade, further motivating much of the electorate to strategically vote for the PQ as a way to get the PLQ out of power. While the fear of a referendum was often brought up by the PQ opponent as an argument against it, it was not really that big a part of the PQ's political message during the campaign, a truth further demonstrated by the fact that support for Quebec independence is actually quite low; lower than the percentage of people who voted for the PQ or other nationalistic political forces during the election.

Now, does the PQ have some ethnocentric tendencies?

Yes

Did its support for the creation of a separate citizenship open possibilities for a mean to create a gap between certain citizens and their rights based on their language?

Tragically, yes, it did.

But the fact of the matter is that the idea was criticized by pretty much all major medias and analysts in Quebec; the PQ had to backtrack on several aspects of the law and before long, they even stopped talking about it, noting that this transparent attempt to charm the more nationalistic electorate while opening a possible conflict with Ottawa that could be exploited later had backfired and convinced several of its followers to vote for other nationalistic parties who were not dabbling in such xenophobic policies, such as Québec Solidaire, Option Nationale and even the Coalition pour l'Avenir du Québec.

The thing is, the PQ should have crushed the Liberals. The party in power had been ripped apart by its poor leadership during the student loans crisis and was being humiliated by a daily showcase of its own mire during the airing of a a provincial commission charged to examine the charges of corruptions in the construction industry. But the PQ lead a very poor campaign; it was seen as clumsy, its leaders performed quite poorly during the debates and it failed to do anything except just being the most likely party to finally replace a government who's days were clearly behind it.

Now, the attempted murder on Marois is a tragedy, a horror which is guaranteed to open a lot of old wounds. What's worst is that it was followed by a wave of approval on the social networks; hate mongering of the worst kind and open calls to murder that are being peddled gleefully in a way that is incredibly destructive. It vindicates the worst of anti-Canadian sentiments found in Quebec, which further feeds the anti-Quebec narrative that can be found in the other provinces. It is a mess, and mess which will take years to be cleaned up.

In the end, the election is very poorly analyzed by the Canadian media, who seems to forget that Quebec is a complex society. After all, nationalism is but one of the many facets of the province's political landscape and it must not be overestimated. After all, the same population which allowed the PQ to win a minority gave its trust to the New Democratic Party, a federalist party.

What do those two events events have in common? Well, both parties are seen as occupying a portion of the left of the political spectrum. As such, a vote for the PQ might not be about separatism or about linguistic tensions, but the fact that the population of Quebec tend to favor the left. As such, stating that the PQ's Pyrrhic victory is a demonstration of the populations adherence to its more nationalistic and sometimes xenophobic values might be a mistake. There were a lot more issues at had in Tuesday's election.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Antiochus

Canuckistani · September 7, 2012

Good post above.

jacee · September 7, 2012

Good post. Thanks Antiochus.

Really nice to have you here.

The thread title is obnoxious, as are a few linguistically challenged posters here for whom another language and culture is a horrifying threat.

I don't comprehend that fearful panic stricken spiteful personality that lashes out at anything different myself. There are a few here but they're not the majority, just loud and nasty.

I'm an AngloOntarian with Franco phone Quebecois family, happy to see Charest go and the focus in Quebec on attacking business/government corruption, defending freedom of expression and accessible education, a good example for the rest of us.

cybercoma · September 7, 2012

Actually, he has a point about the possibility of the Liberals forming a coalition with another party. If they did so, Marois would not be appointed premier, which makes it difficult to say the PQ won.

I get all of that, but that's not what's happening. Hence, the PQ won the election.

Smallc · September 7, 2012

I get all of that, but that's not what's happening. Hence, the PQ won the election.

But because of their situation, government can change without another election. That's why it's so difficult to say that they won.

jacee · September 7, 2012

But because of their situation, government can change without another election. That's why it's so difficult to say that they won.

Nit pick much?

Holy cow denial!

The PQ won enough seats to form a minority government.

Smallc · September 7, 2012

The PQ won enough seats to form a minority government.

Not without the resignation of Charest, and not without the other parties in the National Assembly allowing them to do so. It isn't a nitpick. To say that the PQ 'won' is to discount the many other options that exist within a minority parliament.