ROC

[westguy]

You do have your own money. Alberta's provincial income tax stays in Alberta. None of it goes to Québec.

As long as Alberta remains a part of the Canadian confederacy, Albertans will be required to pay into the federal state, which will then decide to spend the money in whatever way is in the best interests of the entire confederation.

as long as Alberta remains in confederation it will get screwed

[westguy]

Again that is fine you do however have to pay for the Labour that you take from the other provinces. Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and PEI all paid for the Education and Health of those 18-50 year olds you took from them. They are training your future Albertans right now so Alberta can grow and you wont have to immigrate people that don't fit into your culture. It is an investment to make the country stronger. Rich provinces always need trained people to grow and that was the case to when Ontario was the ones paying for the rest of us.

In 2002 when Ontario Farmers sent their Wheat west because of a poor year so they could feed their cows they did it because we are a country. DEAL WITH IT!

I know you think there is a wall around Alberta but there isn't. However 206,000 people moved from Ontario to Alberta over the past decade. THAT IS JUST ONTARIO. Think about will you. It helps Alberta that NS has money to educate its population. It is a small small price to pay to get highly skill labor that easily integrates into your culture. You just want it both ways. You want Labor for free and you want other provinces to pay for it.

You sound just like Quebec "give me mine screw what is fair, and everyone else" you are the thing you pretend to hate and I find that funny.

no one made them come to Alberta and they did not do so out of the goodness of their hearts

[bleeding heart]

as long as Alberta remains in confederation it will get screwed

Then it's an infinite prospect, because they will never leave.

[westguy]

no one made them come to Alberta and they did not do so out of the goodness of their hearts

I dont "hate anyone" I just think the system is unfair to some provinces. I have been to Quebec 5 times and found the population very friendly and likable.

That does not mean I do not feel they are taking advantage of the system by threatemimg independence after they have received $250b from the ROC . By the way - for all the NDPers out there ( amd it seems there are many) the idea of a referendum by the other 9 provinces to see if Quebec should remain in Canada was Rex Murphy's of CBC ( grossly leftist network) not mine.

[westguy]

Then it's an infinite prospect, because they will never leave.

of course cuz they've got it too good here.

[bleeding heart]

of course cuz they've got it too good here.

Agreed, exactly so.

[Tilter]

Again that is fine you do however have to pay for the Labour that you take from the other provinces. Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and PEI all paid for the Education and Health of those 18-50 year olds you took from them. .

If there were jobs in Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and PEI the workers would stay there. Is the reason they move that they have run out of pogy? How many oilwell drilling experts has PEI exported from it's dynamic oil industry?

[bleeding heart]

If there were jobs in Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and PEI the workers would stay there. Is the reason they move that they have run out of pogy?

People move all the time because they need to work. It's not generally because they "have run out of pogy."

What a jerkoff thing to say. Unbelievable.

[Tilter]

People move all the time because they need to work. It's not generally because they "have run out of pogy."

What a jerkoff thing to say. Unbelievable.

So you are saying that they are doing it so they can see a little of Canada & find work to boot?

Also, jerking off (as in jerkoff thing) is what you do when you run out of pogy.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Tilter

[cybercoma]

as long as Alberta remains in confederation it will get screwed

How is Alberta getting screwed exactly? Albertans pay the exact same federal income tax rates as everyone else in the country.

[punked]

If there were jobs in Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, and PEI the workers would stay there. Is the reason they move that they have run out of pogy? How many oilwell drilling experts has PEI exported from it's dynamic oil industry?

Sure and if there was jobs there and not in Alberta people from Alberta would move there. The people from NS would end up paying for that Albertan labor and the country would be better off because it. Stop pretending you are stupid and don't understand why equalization is good for Alberta please. I understand why people in Alberta say what they do but that money would just then either not exist because you wouldn't have the million people from everywhere else jn Canada or you would have educate them yourselves. You would save any money

[punked]

no one made them come to Alberta and they did not do so out of the goodness of their hearts

What are you talking about? That money is to make sure services are the same across Canada. If they weren't Nova Scotia would train lessppipe fitters meaning Alberta would have less pipe fitters. That means less growth of industry, and less people paying income tax in Alberta and that money you just gave Quebec isn't even there to begin with plus there would probably be less money even after you take equalization. You are trying to cut off you noise to spite your face because you as a person does not understand economics. Great.

[madmax]

for certain faculties it is: Grad studies, law, medicine, dentistry. I said tuition is 6-12,000. My daughter went to law school - dont tell me how much she paid as I know.

Nice, I thought we were talking General Tuitions

Well the nice thing is you can go to Monction for $4,900

but yes Alberta is $9,900 for Law school.

Having paid more then one persons way through law school and with another now in the household, well, not as of today lol.....

Regardless,

First you go to Regular University before law School.

I would HOPE TO HIGH HEAVEN you haven't been paying $12000 like you posted only to be paying less for Law School?

Mind you Law School is more expensive in the big T.O and even Windsor.

I'd be broke broke broke if those first 3 years had been the CRAZY tuitions you speak of for a BA.

Again you could send your children to McGill for $7,564.70

that might save you a bit of dough.

[madmax]

How is Alberta getting screwed exactly? Albertans pay the exact same federal income tax rates as everyone else in the country.

That is the Irony of it all.

It would be like saying, I pay taxes and any Federal Monies sent to a region to far away for me to directly benefit is a ripoff to me and I want to opt out.

[madmax]

Sure and if there was jobs there and not in Alberta people from Alberta would move there.

Short Memories....

I have good friends , bricklayers from Alberta, moved to Ontario many decades back during a downturn, made a good living, swung back West for the next boom. I am surprised they are not all busted up after all these years in the trades.

Things slow down, they come back to Ontario.....home of half the family. Alberta the home of the other half.

Its been back and forth for as long as I have known them.

[bleeding heart]

So you are saying that they are doing it so they can see a little of Canada & find work to boot?

No...I'm saying they are doing it so they can find work, period. Most don't go on pogy, but simply go looking for work.

What's so difficult to understand?

Also, jerking off (as in jerkoff thing) is what you do when you run out of pogy.

No, it's what one does while sititng at the computer and pondering the inferiority of everyone looking for work.

[Rocky Road]

I think many in this thread seem to misunderstand the feelings of Westerners towards the East and particularly towards Quebec.

You are not going to change their feelings with nitpicking math about the West receiving transfer payments back in the 30's. That's the sort of thing that makes the average guy's eyes glaze over. The problem is much more visceral.

Westerners, particularly Albertans, are of a very hardworking culture. They have had some very hard economic knocks within recent memory. The NEP was not that long ago. People lost their jobs and their homes in droves. At one point over a third of Calgary's commercial real estate was empty. Make no mistake, their setback was deep and it HURT!

Despite that, they rolled up their sleeves, pulled together and rebuilt their economy. It wasn't Ottawa who made the oil boom out west. Ottawa just followed along and taxed the hell out of it as fast as it could.

When these western folks look to Quebec, they see a province who seems to have a sense of entitlement. To them, Quebec built her economy by blackmailing Ottawa with talk of separation. Quebec appears to be much more in debt than the west yet has incredibly cheap day care and the lowest tuition rates for university students, by far! Quebec may not have oil but it has vast amounts of hydro electricity that most homes are heated with it. As an Ontarioan, the first time I saw that I was shocked to the core!

So Westerners lack respect for the East and Quebec not for audits and accounting but for an impression of their work ethic, or lack of one. In a word, westerners think Quebecers are lazy! They live a better life than other Canadians yet tend to be whiny about not getting enough from Ottawa.

This is a perception and may not be very accurate but once again, in politics perception is everything.

I live in Alberta and very much agree.

[westguy]

How is Alberta getting screwed exactly? Albertans pay the exact same federal income tax rates as everyone else in the country.

at the risk of repeating the obvious, Alberta is contributing more $$ by 7.4b$/yr than it is receiving back from the Feds. Altho the numbers have changed over the years , the concept remains the same. To those who say that Alberta received equalization payments in the 30's, while that may/may not be true, Alberta and the rest of the west were required to pay heavy tariffs to support Ontario manufacturing as well, so Alberta and the west were paying out while/if they were receiving equalization payments.

Where do you think the $5b comes from to subsidize Quebec??- Alberta taxpayers and business and other provinces is where. I dont see Quebec sharing their Hydro Quebec receipts with the ROC. Ask yourself how our economy would be doing without Alberta in the last few years.

[Smallc]

at the risk of repeating the obvious, Alberta is contributing more $$ by 7.4b$/yr than it is receiving back from the Feds.

Alberta has a per capita GDP that's more than 1.5 times the national average....because you're sitting on huge reserves of oil and gas. Get over yourselves. In a federation, wealth in shared in order to reduce disparity. That's what Equalization is for.

[westguy]

Post was corrected. I ment sales tax. Which every other province pays. It is fine to complain about services you don't have but when you refuse to pay for them you look like a jerk to do so.

so you think the ROC should pay for Atlantic fishermen who work only seasonally and refuse to take jobs so that they can collect EI during off-season and we should smile about it??

[punked]

so you think the ROC should pay for Atlantic fishermen who work only seasonally and refuse to take jobs so that they can collect EI during off-season and we should smile about it??

You will have to point out where I said that. I do think many fisherman fish for half the year then go to Alberta and work your oil fields and go to your province to grow it. Adding to your GDP. That labour helps you and your province

Stop pretending it doesn't. EI is there for those who path into it. I am sorry you don't like that but that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH EQUALIZATION and because you think they are the samehing you are uninformed and a hazard to this country and Alberta

Edited September 3, 2012 by punked

[Wild Bill]

so you think the ROC should pay for Atlantic fishermen who work only seasonally and refuse to take jobs so that they can collect EI during off-season and we should smile about it??

As usual westguy, it's not that simple! Those fisherman don't refuse to take jobs. There ARE no jobs!

I believe the maritime economy has been deliberately set up to keep workers on the dole for generations now! It's the old "company store" scam!

Very little of the government money poured into the Maritimes has resulted in sustainable, long term business. Rather, what happens is that grant money will fund a startup that lasts for a couple of years, goes under when the grant money ends and another startup is funded. The market does not determine the nature of new businesses - the government does! We all know how great a record government has for picking winners. Often, a successful business will find that the government has suddenly decided to give grant money to create a competitor! You are forced out of business and then afterwards that competitor follows, when its grant money runs out.

So the average Maritime worker is forced into a succession of part-time and short term jobs. If he plays the game he can get by but there's one caveat - he has to keep voting for parties that will continue the grant money! That sticks in the craw of many down East but they don't have a lot of choice. It's hard to act on pride when you have to feed your kids.

It's easy to say just move out west but that's a hard thing for a Maritimer. Many do and have done so, of course. Still, they could be in Alberta for 30 years and yet will still refer to Nova Scotia or New Brunswick as "Down Home". Alberta is where they found they HAD to live, not where they WANTED to live! To them, it was like emigrating to another country.

If you know any "downhomers" in Alberta you know I am right! If you stop and think about it, someone born and raised in sight of the Rockies would have a hard time leaving to work in the Maritimes, if the shoe was on the other foot.

It's easy for a westerner to say "Just move out here!" Doesn't bother you none! Alberta is YOUR home! To you it's the best place to be!

Would it be so strange to find that people in other parts of Canada feel the same way about where they live?

[TheNewTeddy]

If you are born and raised in the Atlantic, and you learn any, ANY useful skills, you get the hell out of there and move to a province that will pay you well.

The reason why the Atlantic is so poor is because all the skilled workers have moved to other provinces.

[punked]

If you are born and raised in the Atlantic, and you learn any, ANY useful skills, you get the hell out of there and move to a province that will pay you well.

The reason why the Atlantic is so poor is because all the skilled workers have moved to other provinces.

Nope it is because all their resources were taken a long long time ago. If we started pumping oil of the ground the same time we started to take the fish out of the Ocean there would be none of that left either and Alberta would want Ontario to pay for everything.

[blueblood]

Nope it is because all their resources were taken a long long time ago. If we started pumping oil of the ground the same time we started to take the fish out of the Ocean there would be none of that left either and Alberta would want Ontario to pay for everything.

Nope, it's because of the port factor. BC is a busier hub than Atlantic Canada because of the china factor. Atlantic Canada has the bad luck of being in a crappy spot far away from export markets. Fishing is an industry that only works when its tightly regulated, however since there is not much of aquaculture and fish farming out there, it's going to be tough to have a primary industry.

There are many years of oil/nat gas in Alberta along with pop growth. Along with research in the energy sector, Alberta has no foreseeable problems in the near future. Fishing is a pittance compared to a lively port, hence why BC is booming whereas Atlantic Canada is not.