Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 So what, the point is we have different systems. The vast majority of those Swiss gun owners have had military training and it is they who are relied upon to be the country's military if it is needed. But “there’s a gun in every house” and the Swiss don’t have a high rate of gun homicide……..Do military members not have the same personal problems as “average Joe”? Quote
The_Squid Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Posted July 30, 2012 Again, that doesn’t confirm the point of the OP………. One post from a racist gun-nut certainly does not refute a study done by the Harvard School of Public Health. Quote
Wilber Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 But “there’s a gun in every house” and the Swiss don’t have a high rate of gun homicide……..Do military members not have the same personal problems as “average Joe”? Look, if Canadians decide they want to get rid of their standing army and have every person spend six months a year undergoing military training with annual refreshers and subject to call up for 15 years or so, then that's OK with me. The point is, they do this to defend their state, not to defend themselves from their state. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 One post from a racist gun-nut certainly does not refute a study done by the Harvard School of Public Health. Are you calling me a racist? Clearly, the study posted by Argus refutes your entire OP………Care to address that? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 Look, if Canadians decide they want to get rid of their standing army and have every person spend six months a year undergoing military training with annual refreshers and subject to call up for 15 years or so, then that's OK with me. The point is, they do this to defend their state, not to defend themselves from their state. That's all well and good, "More Guns, don’t equal more homicides" as demonstrated by greater private ownership in the Nordic countries, Switzerland and France……….Again they all have similar gun laws as us, but yet lower gun crime……….It`s almost like private ownership of Firearms plays little into gun crimes…….look at the study, and all those latin American countries with lower legal ownership then us, but drastically increased gun crime. Quote
The_Squid Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Posted July 30, 2012 Argus posted a clip from a newspaper blog that no longer has the graphic up to examine, nor does it cite any references. Are you calling me a racist? This is rhetorical, correct? Cuz I thought that I was fairly clear... Quote
Wilber Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 That's all well and good, "More Guns, don’t equal more homicides" as demonstrated by greater private ownership in the Nordic countries, Switzerland and France……….Again they all have similar gun laws as us, but yet lower gun crime……….It`s almost like private ownership of Firearms plays little into gun crimes…….look at the study, and all those latin American countries with lower legal ownership then us, but drastically increased gun crime. I am not anti gun. I don't see the need for changes in our laws. I think they are a good compromise. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 Argus posted a clip from a newspaper blog that no longer has the graphic up to examine, nor does it cite any references. This is rhetorical, correct? Cuz I thought that I was fairly clear... A Blog? It's the National Post......... http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/28/guns-ownership-around-the-world-graphic/ With the data sourced from Census reports, National Police Forces, National ministries of Justice and the WHO…….. Care to refute them? Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 I am not anti gun. I don't see the need for changes in our laws. I think they are a good compromise. As I said numerous times, I’ve no problem with licensing of gun owners, but little use for registries, the ATT/ATC and though we have the partial mechanisms, would like to see self-defence laws better defined and a greater issuing of the ATC’s……….. Quote
The_Squid Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Posted July 30, 2012 A Blog? It's the National Post......... http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/07/28/guns-ownership-around-the-world-graphic/ With the data sourced from Census reports, National Police Forces, National ministries of Justice and the WHO…….. Care to refute them? Read the Harvard study. This National Post article does not refute it one bit. Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide. We found that across developed countries, where guns are more available, there are more homicides. These results often hold even when the United States is excluded. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 Read the Harvard study. This National Post article does not refute it one bit. Sure it does........It provides data relating to private gun ownership and gun related homicides in each country……..No opinions, no professors etc……….And clearly proves your linked study bunk. Quote
The_Squid Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Posted July 30, 2012 no professors No analysis, no statistical math needed, right? That wasn't a study. Enough with your silliness. No matter what any study said, you would never believe the truth about gun statistics. Plus you want more lax gun control measures. Read the articles I posted that show what lax gun carrying measures does. In the past week it was easy to google up 3 little kids that were killed because of the lack of care that gun owners exhibit when gun owners are allowed "freedom". Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 No analysis, no statistical math needed, right? That wasn't a study. Enough with your silliness. No matter what any study said, you would never believe the truth about gun statistics. Plus you want more lax gun control measures. Read the articles I posted that show what lax gun carrying measures does. In the past week it was easy to google up 3 little kids that were killed because of the lack of care that gun owners exhibit when gun owners are allowed "freedom". I don’t need to “read up”……..As I said, the Scandinavian countries, the French & Swiss have slightly higher private gun ownership rates then Canada, similar or more lax laws and less gun related homicides…….Contrasted with places like Mexico and Brazil, with less private ownership, stricter gun laws and a drastically increased rate of gun related homicides…………Clearly "More Guns = More Homicides" is a bunk theory and disproves your mantra. Perhaps you should change the OP title to a more accurate one………..Just saying Quote
The_Squid Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Posted July 30, 2012 I don’t need to “read up”……..As I said, the Scandinavian countries, the French & Swiss have slightly higher private gun ownership rates then Canada, similar or more lax laws and less gun related homicides…….Contrasted with places like Mexico and Brazil, with less private ownership, stricter gun laws and a drastically increased rate of gun related homicides…………Clearly "More Guns = More Homicides" is a bunk theory and disproves your mantra. Perhaps you should change the OP title to a more accurate one………..Just saying Read the paper. And read up about the little kids shot when their parents have the "freedom" to carry around a handgun. Sheer idiocy. It isn't my mantra, it's facts. Sorry if that doesn't match your gun-nut philosophy. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 Read the paper. And read up about the little kids shot when their parents have the "freedom" to carry around a handgun. Sheer idiocy. It isn't my mantra, it's facts. Sorry if that doesn't match your gun-nut philosophy. And what of the children drowning in pools in Quebec….Let’s ban pools As I said, the numbers on gun homicides and private ownership don’t lie, and clearly refute your BS assertion. Quote
guyser Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 And what of the children drowning in pools in Quebec….Let’s ban pools 115 deaths of children in pools http://www.mels.gouv.qc.ca/loisirsport/pdf/FaitsSaillantsNoyadeAnglais.pdf As I said, the numbers on gun homicides 206 What were you saying? http://www.prevention-violence.ca/English/PDFsEnglish/TheProblemFirearms.pdf Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) 115 deaths of children in pools http://www.mels.gouv.qc.ca/loisirsport/pdf/FaitsSaillantsNoyadeAnglais.pdf 206 What were you saying? http://www.prevention-violence.ca/English/PDFsEnglish/TheProblemFirearms.pdf I was saying: http://www.redcross.ca/cmslib/general/10drwn_english.pdf According to data provided by Statistics Canada,drowning was the 4th most common cause of death by unintentional injury in Canada during 1991-2000, after highway deaths, falls and poisoning. Drowning was the leading cause of death for recreational and sporting activities. 5,900 individuals died and 3,289 were hospitalized for near drowning. Incalculable are the suffering and long-term personal losses of the nearly 10,000 family tragedies represented by these statistics. Furthermore, economic costs to Canadians of these deaths exceed 10 billion dollars. Yet many of these incidents are preventable From your link: http://www.prevention-violence.ca/English/PDFsEnglish/TheProblemFirearms.pdf Firearm death and injury is a significant public health and safety issue in Canada.Every year in Canada, approximately 800 Canadians are killed with firearms. As in most industrialized countries (except the USA), the majority of these deaths are suicides. Of those, ~80% are Suicides, ~15% accidents and ~5% homicides.............I trust most drowning deaths are accidents.......Sooooooo So why not ban swimming? Think of the Children.... Edited July 30, 2012 by Derek L Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 30, 2012 Report Posted July 30, 2012 Then there's this: http://www.heartandstroke.com/site/c.ikIQLcMWJtE/b.3483991/k.34A8/Statistics.htm Deaths from smoking and second-hand smokeSmoking contributes to more than 37,000 deaths a year in Canada, of which almost 11,000 are heart disease and stroke-related (29% of all smoking-related deaths are heart disease and stroke-related). 21 Almost 6,300 non-smokers die each year from exposure to second-hand smoke. Smoking is responsible for 14.54% of all heart disease and stroke deaths. If current rates of tobacco use continue, approximately 1 million Canadians will die over the next 20 years as a direct result of smoking and second-hand smoke.22 Why are we letting smokers, smoke in front of other people? I’m not saying ban smoking, but perhaps all smokers should have to store and use their cigarettes in private parlours where non-smokers won’t be made victims………..Who would have thunk, a Canadian has a much greater chance dieing from second hand smoke then guns and drowning…………Think of the Children. Quote
guyser Posted July 31, 2012 Report Posted July 31, 2012 I was saying: Actually you moved the goalposts. Fine, I expected as much even if I am not one who subscribes to the vailidity of the thread title. But if you are going to say pool drownings in Que, vs deaths by guns, then dont bring drownings in Canada as your rebuttal.. Its a de facto admission you were wrong. Quote
Guest Derek L Posted July 31, 2012 Report Posted July 31, 2012 Actually you moved the goalposts. Fine, I expected as much even if I am not one who subscribes to the vailidity of the thread title. But if you are going to say pool drownings in Que, vs deaths by guns, then dont bring drownings in Canada as your rebuttal.. Its a de facto admission you were wrong. Moving the goalposts? As per the thread title: More guns = more homicides In which case 28 homicides using firearms were Committed in 2003.……..not 206.…………Now if we assume said 115 deaths from drowning in Quebec are all accidents and contrast said number with firearms related accidents from your link over the same time, we’re talking about ~10-15 accidental firearms related deaths a year……… Apples to Apples Quote
wyly Posted July 31, 2012 Report Posted July 31, 2012 That's all well and good, "More Guns, don’t equal more homicides" as demonstrated by greater private ownership in the Nordic countries, Switzerland and France……….Again they all have similar gun laws as us, but yet lower gun crime……….It`s almost like private ownership of Firearms plays little into gun crimes…….look at the study, and all those latin American countries with lower legal ownership then us, but drastically increased gun crime. ya ya , lots' claims but zero backing to those claims you hear from the boys down at timmies...autoamtic weapon claim was BS...Switzerland does not not allow automatic weapons in civilian hands, citizen soldiers may keep their auto weapons when they leave the service but the automatic feature must be disabled...then earlier you claimed Mexicans have highly restricted gun laws a minimum of research would show that is wrong as well...a quick survey of other central american countries the only restriction preventing owning a gun is a lack of license, requirement for license is genuine reason to possess a firearm- security, hunting and sports shooting just as it is in canada.... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bleeding heart Posted July 31, 2012 Report Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) I was saying: http://www.redcross.ca/cmslib/general/10drwn_english.pdf From your link: http://www.prevention-violence.ca/English/PDFsEnglish/TheProblemFirearms.pdf Of those, ~80% are Suicides, ~15% accidents and ~5% homicides.............I trust most drowning deaths are accidents.......Sooooooo So why not ban swimming? Think of the Children.... Obviously you consider the "war on Terror" to be a monumental sham, then. No worries...I do too! Edited July 31, 2012 by bleeding heart Quote “There is a limit to how much we can constantly say no to the political masters in Washington. All we had was Afghanistan to wave. On every other file we were offside. Eventually we came onside on Haiti, so we got another arrow in our quiver." --Bill Graham, Former Canadian Foreign Minister, 2007
Guest Derek L Posted July 31, 2012 Report Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) ya ya , lots' claims but zero backing to those claims you hear from the boys down at timmies...autoamtic weapon claim was BS...Switzerland does not not allow automatic weapons in civilian hands, citizen soldiers may keep their auto weapons when they leave the service but the automatic feature must be disabled...then earlier you claimed Mexicans have highly restricted gun laws a minimum of research would show that is wrong as well...a quick survey of other central american countries the only restriction preventing owning a gun is a lack of license, requirement for license is genuine reason to possess a firearm- security, hunting and sports shooting just as it is in canada.... And all those automatics don’t equal more homicides? As to Mexico, again, your research has failed you………What are the restrictions on firearms limits? military calibers? types of actions etc? All restrictions not shared in Canada……… To add, do you know what a 12.2 Firearms licence is in Canada? Edited July 31, 2012 by Derek L Quote
guyser Posted July 31, 2012 Report Posted July 31, 2012 Moving the goalposts? As per the thread title: In which case 28 homicides using firearms were Committed in 2003.……..not 206.…………Now if we assume said 115 deaths from drowning in Quebec are all accidents and contrast said number with firearms related accidents from your link over the same time, we’re talking about ~10-15 accidental firearms related deaths a year……… Apples to Apples Nice try but fail. More goalposts moved. The point is, dont be using stats you had no idea about when making your argument. In the last post of yours you amended how people died. Quote
Argus Posted July 31, 2012 Report Posted July 31, 2012 Argus posted a clip from a newspaper blog that no longer has the graphic up to examine, nor does it cite any references. Actually, it does. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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