Hey Toronto has made International News.

[Guest Peeves]

A few dared reference 'Black'.

None seemed to mention , Somalis , Jamaicans or absentee fathers.

None that in the area of the shootings has a different gang controlling each building complex.

None that the cops weren't aware of the B.B Q plans nor were they there to monitor same as they should have been in that situation, in that situ. (Danzig street)

http://www.nationalpost.com/index.html

Apparently 2 gang bangers had a shoot out in front of 200 witnesses...Not the least concerned it seems that anyone would come forth to identify them?

Will anyone?

Why should they when police wont step up to identify their own.

Another aside. Banning guns -bullets or having records of legally owned guns won't help this type of crime. It might some others?

But personally, on seeing how a few million voters lists personal info was allowed to be scammed by someone for their own end, you have to know that a registered list of gun owners will similarly be obtained by criminals wanting to know where guns are available. I don't want my info out there for someone to either steal my I.D. nor to know if I'm armed...thank you but leave me off any lists. And...

In THAT community, I doubt I'd 'come forward either'.

[Black Dog]

Yeah and Adam Vaughan went after Mayor Ford, blaming a hiring freeze the police's response. Using tragedy to score political points isn't above either side of the political spectrum.

Well, when the same mayor has always voted against funds for anti-gang/community development programs starts blustering about declaring war on gangs, pointing out the hypocrisy there isn't just about scoring points.

[Boges]

Well, when the same mayor has always voted against funds for anti-gang/community development programs starts blustering about declaring war on gangs, pointing out the hypocrisy there isn't just about scoring points.

Well the Adam Vaughan statement was about the police. The Police seem to have been taken care of very well by this Mayor, to a fault I'd say. He did ask the Chief to trim some money, but he asked all departments to do that. He didn't make them cut 10% though.

To blame the mayor for this is trying to use the event to score political points.

[Canuckistani]

The gangland stuff is just fear mongering. Maybe it is "gang related," but that doesn't change the fact that violent crime in Canada is at a 40 year low.

That doesn't mean we get to pat ourselves on the shoulder and relax either. Gang crime ain't at a 40 year low. We need to deal with it, on all fronts.

[wyly]

instead of getting tough on pot and other drug users laws need to toughened in regards to illegal hand gun possession and smuggling of such weapons into canada...anyone with an illegal handgun should be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, there is no other reason to have a handgun in your possession without a permit...make the consequences for smuggling or having a handgun in one's possession so high that it becomes a real deterrent for doing so...the gangster/punks will have to resort to using knives which much safer for innocent bystanders, and I really don't care if gangsters want to stab each other to death...

[cybercoma]

That doesn't mean we get to pat ourselves on the shoulder and relax either. Gang crime ain't at a 40 year low. We need to deal with it, on all fronts.

I didn't say we need to ignore it.

[Boges]

instead of getting tough on pot and other drug users laws need to toughened in regards to illegal hand gun possession and smuggling of such weapons into canada...anyone with an illegal handgun should be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, there is no other reason to have a handgun in your possession without a permit...make the consequences for smuggling or having a handgun in one's possession so high that it becomes a real deterrent for doing so...the gangster/punks will have to resort to using knives which much safer for innocent bystanders, and I really don't care if gangsters want to stab each other to death...

Stopping the illegal importing of hand guns is about as tough as stopping the importing of illicit drugs.

The big difference is, unlike drugs, owning and concealing a hand gun is a constitutional right for our neighbours to the south.

Would you support mandatory minimum sentences for possessing an illegal gun?

Edited July 18, 2012 by Boges

[cybercoma]

Would you support mandatory minimum sentences for possessing an illegal gun?

Seriously, F mandatory minimums. Parliament cannot foresee every possible circumstance. That's why we have courts. They hear every last detail about a case and render a decision. Stop trying to strip away fair hearings.

Remember that gun registry you hated? Imagine if not registering your firearm sometime in the future made it illegal to possess it.

Do you think it's fair and just that a person ought to receive a minimum 3 years in prison for that?

Edited July 18, 2012 by cybercoma

[Boges]

Seriously, F mandatory minimums. Parliament cannot foresee every possible circumstance. That's why we have courts. They hear every last detail about a case and render a decision. Stop trying to strip away fair hearings.

Alright well what prison sentence would you attach to concealing a hand gun because you need a stiff deterrent to prevent people from carrying it. . . don't you?

[Canuckistani]

"Gang-related" is a pretty vague term. Any group of wannabes with a Glock and a bag of weed can call themselves a gang.

Any group with a Glock (presumably illegal) is a pretty scary proposition, no matter what you call it.

[cybercoma]

Forget hypotheticals. The RCMP has changed the regulations on firearms in the past. Making things illegal that were once legal to possess. Automatically with the stroke of a pen, hundreds of people could be required to be sentenced to a mandatory minimum of 3 years in prison.

Our courts need to be more adaptable to these things.

[Boges]

Remember that gun registry you hated? Imagine if not registering your firearm sometime in the future made it illegal to possess it.

It wasn't a hand gun registry. It was a LONG GUN registry. Was a hunting rifle used in Monday's shooting?

Edited July 18, 2012 by Boges

[Canuckistani]

I didn't say we need to ignore it.

You replied that crime is at a 40 yr low in response to concerns about gang violence, which implies that we don't have much to worry about. Again, gang violence is definitely not at a 40 yr low, this is a subject we do have to worry about. Just tough on crime stuff won't fix it, either.

[cybercoma]

Alright well what prison sentence would you attach to concealing a hand gun because you need a stiff deterrent to prevent people from carrying it. . . don't you?

I'm not going to get into putting a fixed number on sentencing. Every case is unique and requires a judge to hear all of the particulars of it before rendering a decision.

Look at the crackhead that tried to sell an undercover cop a gun. Under Tory law he was required to get 3 years, mandatory minimum, for gun trafficking. He never had a gun and was just trying to get crack money. It isn't even remotely fair and just that he would be given 3 years incarceration.

[cybercoma]

It wasn't a hand gun registry. It was a LONG GUN registry. Was a hunting rifle used in yesterday's shooting?

I shouldn't have used a hypothetical with you because it figures you would misunderstand the point I was making. Laws change. That's why I used the very real RCMP example.

Mandatory minimums are an all around terrible idea.

[Boges]

Forget hypotheticals. The RCMP has changed the regulations on firearms in the past. Making things illegal that were once legal to possess. Automatically with the stroke of a pen, hundreds of people could be required to be sentenced to a mandatory minimum of 3 years in prison.

Our courts need to be more adaptable to these things.

Owning a concealed handgun is already illegal. You could charge people right now. But the courts need to have teeth.

Another solution would be this: The shooting happened in community housing. If you're found with a gun and you live in community housing, your family is evicted. That might make these guys think twice about carrying a gun.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Boges

[cybercoma]

Owning a concealed handgun is already illegal. You could charge people right now. But the courts need to have teeth.

Another solution would be this: The shooting happened in community housing. If you're found with a gun and you live in community housing, your family is evicted. That might make these guys think twice about carrying a gun.

The courts have all the power they need to imprison people.

And it's quite rich to hear a gun supporter claim the government should confiscate people's firearms if they live in community housing. What if I like to hunt or go to the range? Or need home protection because I'm in a high crime area?

[wyly]

Stopping the illegal importing of hand guns is about as tough as stopping the importing of illicit drugs.

The big difference is, unlike drugs, owning and concealing a hand gun is a constitutional right for our neighbours to the south.

unlike drugs the reason for someone to possess a restricted handgun is to kill someone, drug sellers don't intend to kill their customers that's poor business...so treat illegal handgun possession as conspiracy to commit murder...

I don't care what laws the US has we restrict handgun ownership...

Would you support mandatory minimum sentences for possessing an illegal gun?

well obviously, I don't see a need for handguns at all but we have laws restricting their use and ownership and need to make sure that only those who have a permit to own one do so...anyone who would defy those restrictions has criminal intentions in mind for those handguns...if toughing the laws on handgun use doesn't deter their acquisition at least we can get those who use them off the streets for a long time...

[cybercoma]

unlike drugs the reason for someone to possess a restricted handgun is to kill someone, drug sellers don't intend to kill their customers that's poor business...so treat illegal handgun possession as conspiracy to commit murder...

Yet the concealed carry crowd says that carrying a handgun is not a conspiracy to murder, it's a deterrent.

[wyly]

.

Another solution would be this: The shooting happened in community housing. If you're found with a gun and you live in community housing, your family is evicted. That might make these guys think twice about carrying a gun.

they could get life in prison for shooting and killing someone I hardly think evicting them is going to scare them much...20yrs for simple possession may give them pause to think about having one...

[Boges]

The courts have all the power they need to imprison people.

And it's quite rich to hear a gun supporter claim the government should confiscate people's firearms if they live in community housing. What if I like to hunt or go to the range? Or need home protection because I'm in a high crime area?

I'm not a "gun supporter" But I don't think gun ownership should be illegal, I don't think that's an extreme opinion.

If the gun in the home of the person in community housing was legal and registered than that's fine.

[wyly]

Yet the concealed carry crowd says that carrying a handgun is not a conspiracy to murder, it's a deterrent.

yeah but that's an american argument we aren't allowed to have concealed handguns here...

[Canuckistani]

they could get life in prison for shooting and killing someone I hardly think evicting them is going to scare them much...20yrs for simple possession may give them pause to think about having one...

If heavy sentences worked, there would be no murders. I would like to see judges get tougher with people possessing illegal guns, but as long as the gang culture thrives, it won't really do much. If you're willing to shoot people and be shot as a day to day occurrence, jail isn't going to be much of a deterrent.

[cybercoma]

they could get life in prison for shooting and killing someone I hardly think evicting them is going to scare them much...20yrs for simple possession may give them pause to think about having one...

Why would you give someone 20 years for possession? You don't think that's at all excessive for merely possessing a gun? You get life for first-degree murder. If that doesn't give people pause, what the hell is 20 years for possession going to do?

The people that take pause follow the laws. Those that don't will never take pause. However, I don't believe in pre-emptive incarceration for thoughtcrimes.

[wyly]

I'm not a "gun supporter" But I don't think gun ownership should be illegal, I don't think that's an extreme opinion.

If the gun in the home of the person in community housing was legal and registered than that's fine.

we're talking handguns here, it's not easy getting a handgun and the type of people we're discussing have little chance of getting a handgun legally...