How to screw over the little people

[Argus]

Just one of the astonishing things about the dog eat dog life that is America: Tax Liens Auctions.

Here's how it works. Say you're seventy five years old, and you own your home. But you didn't pay your tax that year, or a portion of your tax. Say you owe the city/state $500. Before you know it they slap a tax lien on your home, then sell it at auction. Private investors, including the big banks, snap these up. Then you have a very limited opportunity to try and pay your tax bill along with surcharges and interest. If you don't pay it - you lose the house. And it doesn't matter how much equity you have in it. You could have $200,000 equity in the house, but if you didn't pay that $500 tax bill the house could be sold to a bank for the amount of the lien, and then they resell it for $200,000 and get huge profits.

And who gets screwed? Clearly, the elderly, and people who have communications issues, or where there are communication problems, such as not getting their mail. Who gets the huge profits? Guess.

You have to wonder how laws like this manage to stay on the books, and how it is people don't string up the politicians who put them there or who keep them there or who take advantage of them. Then again, it seems that in America, you have a group of haves who don't give a damn about anyone else, and the have-nots who have no political power.

Tax Liens

[bush_cheney2004]

....Then again, it seems that in America, you have a group of haves who don't give a damn about anyone else, and the have-nots who have no political power.

Property owners pay taxes at a mill rate determined by elected and appointed officials. This is for school district taxes, county taxes, park board, and other taxing districts.

So the moral of the story is: Vote on tax referenda and PAY YOUR FRICKIN TAXES! DUH!

What do they do to tax deadbeats in Canada....give them the Victoria Cross?

[guyser]

Never liked them much.Seems a scummy way to get a house, and pretty sad way to lose one. But most people probably lose it due to their own fault.

Not much diff here, except it takes 4 or more, likely 6 years for it to happen. Not to mention it isnt sold at auction, but sold to the mortgage lender and or intersted legal party to the house. Takes 3 yrs of unpaid taxes, then goes to the mmortgage holder who then waits a couple more years before they can move on it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Never liked them much.Seems a scummy way to get a house, and pretty sad way to lose one. But most people probably lose it due to their own fault.

Damn right it is their own fault, and more times than not the property has become a pain in the ass for the neighbourhood, property values, and renter scum.

Not much diff here, except it takes 4 or more, likely 6 years for it to happen.....

We don't 'eff around down here! Taxes and Death....not necessarily in that order.

Edited July 10, 2012 by bush_cheney2004

[guyser]

So the moral of the story is: Vote on tax referenda and PAY YOUR FRICKIN TAXES! DUH!

Quite true , but with all govt agencies and or municipal tax offices, they are horrendously sloppy with paperwork and notifications.

Thats where the true problems arise.

What do they do to tax deadbeats in Canada....give them the Victoria Cross?

NO, we just threaten to move them to Minnesota. They tend to pay up quick.

Edited July 10, 2012 by guyser

[bush_cheney2004]

Quite true , but with all govt agencies and or municipal tax offices, they are horrendously sloppy with paperwork and notifications.

Thats where the true problems arise.

Any idiot who has ever played a game of Monopoly knows about property taxes. It's not complicated and there are multiple warnings.

NO, we just threaten to move them to Minnesota. They tend to pay up quick.

Whatever works when the Taxman cometh.....

[Argus]

Never liked them much.Seems a scummy way to get a house, and pretty sad way to lose one. But most people probably lose it due to their own fault.

It's done too quickly, and it's done with profits in mind. You can say it's their own fault, and for you and me that might be the case. But this system doesn't take into account all the elderly, who might not understand this, and might think it's just a small bill they can put off, or those who don't speak English well, or those who, to put it bluntly, aren't very smart. Being able to lose tens of thousands in equity in a house for a few hundred bucks of unpaid tax is ludicrous.

[cybercoma]

Never liked them much.Seems a scummy way to get a house, and pretty sad way to lose one. But most people probably lose it due to their own fault.

Even if that were true, and I don't see how it would matter, why on earth can't they pay back the difference between the equity and the debt+interest?

[bush_cheney2004]

Even if that were true, and I don't see how it would matter, why on earth can't they pay back the difference between the equity and the debt+interest?

Because it's tax forfeited property, not tax forfeited equity.

[Guest American Woman]

It's done too quickly, and it's done with profits in mind. You can say it's their own fault, and for you and me that might be the case. But this system doesn't take into account all the elderly, who might not understand this, and might think it's just a small bill they can put off, or those who don't speak English well, or those who, to put it bluntly, aren't very smart. Being able to lose tens of thousands in equity in a house for a few hundred bucks of unpaid tax is ludicrous.

So do tell. How quickly does it happen?

Anyone who speaks English well enough to apply for and get a mortgage and/or anyone smart enough to do that, has the ability to find out what their responsibilities are as a homeowner. I would have to assume that the elderly owned their home for some time - so I'm not sure why they wouldn't understand the process. If they are starting to get dementia, they should have family members looking out for them.

At any rate, not all states have tax lien sales and among those that do, the laws and time periods vary - but all property owners are given a time span to pay the taxes before they lose their house.

At any rate, a lot of scummy things happen - and they *gasp* happen in Canada, too. It's not limited to the dog eat dog world that is America.

[Bonam]

There are thousands upon thousands of rules you have to comply with as a citizen of any modern Western country. Paying your taxes is just one of them. Overlooking any of these things results in various consequences, some slight, others severe. That's just what living in a bureaucracy means. Those who are unable or unwilling to understand and comply with what is required of them will be subjected to the standard consequences of such failure in compliance. The government is fully willing and capable to screw over individuals for tiny technicalities, or to enable private entities to do this screwing over on their behalf. One must know this and act accordingly.

[cybercoma]

At any rate, a lot of scummy things happen - and they *gasp* happen in Canada, too.

Then stop trying to derail threads and start a thread about those things in the Canadian politics forums.

[bush_cheney2004]

[Wilber]

Some Canadian cities like Vancouver where property values are very high, allow the elderly who have a large amount of equity in their homes to postpone paying taxes until the property is sold in the manner of a reverse mortgage.

The primary object of the exercise should be to give an owner the opportunity to pay their taxes plus any interest, not put them out on the street.

[bush_cheney2004]

Then stop trying to derail threads and start a thread about those things in the Canadian politics forums.

Yea...this is the United States Politics forum and anything having to do with the USA is never mentioned in the Canadian Politics forum...no sirreebob!

[Guest American Woman]

Some Canadian cities like Vancouver where property values are very high, allow the elderly who have a large amount of equity in their homes to postpone paying taxes until the property is sold in the manner of a reverse mortgage.

The primary object of the exercise should be to give an owner the opportunity to pay their taxes plus any interest, not put them out on the street.

Some American states/counties/cities also have property tax relief and/or exemption programs. One such example: On Monday, July 9, Ulster County executive Mike Hein signed five new property tax exemptions into law. The new exemptions will mean tax breaks for first-time homebuyers, veterans, seniors, and disabled people in Ulster County. links

As I previously pointed out, such things vary; the topic is not a standard "American" procedure/practice.

[Argus]

There are thousands upon thousands of rules you have to comply with as a citizen of any modern Western country. Paying your taxes is just one of them. Overlooking any of these things results in various consequences, some slight, others severe. That's just what living in a bureaucracy means.

Oh, okay. So the fairness or justice of the penalty is irrelevant is what you're saying? You were late on your taxes, so you deserve to lose your house. Maybe even be executed?

Funny that the same people who push these kinds of things are also the same people who decry any taxation on the wealthy or corporations. If a corporation is late paying its taxes should all its assets be commandeered and sold off to pay those taxes?

And why is it the land of God fearing, born again Christians seems to have so little Christian charity, tolerance or forgiveness among those who are its most ardent followers?

[Bonam]

Oh, okay. So the fairness or justice of the penalty is irrelevant is what you're saying? You were late on your taxes, so you deserve to lose your house. Maybe even be executed?

I didn't say you "deserve" to lose your house, or anything of the like. Nor did I make any moral assertions about what "should" happen or what is "ok". I made a simple statement of facts.

[Pliny]

Just one of the astonishing things about the dog eat dog life that is America: Tax Liens Auctions.

Here's how it works. Say you're seventy five years old, and you own your home. But you didn't pay your tax that year, or a portion of your tax. Say you owe the city/state $500. Before you know it they slap a tax lien on your home, then sell it at auction. Private investors, including the big banks, snap these up. Then you have a very limited opportunity to try and pay your tax bill along with surcharges and interest. If you don't pay it - you lose the house. And it doesn't matter how much equity you have in it. You could have $200,000 equity in the house, but if you didn't pay that $500 tax bill the house could be sold to a bank for the amount of the lien, and then they resell it for $200,000 and get huge profits.

And who gets screwed? Clearly, the elderly, and people who have communications issues, or where there are communication problems, such as not getting their mail. Who gets the huge profits? Guess.

You have to wonder how laws like this manage to stay on the books, and how it is people don't string up the politicians who put them there or who keep them there or who take advantage of them. Then again, it seems that in America, you have a group of haves who don't give a damn about anyone else, and the have-nots who have no political power.

Tax Liens

It's the same procedure in Canada. It isn't exclusive to the United States.

Here's Vancouver's tax auction site.

[guyser]

It's the same procedure in Canada. It isn't exclusive to the United States.

Here's Vancouver's tax auction site.

No it isnt, read your site then Argus link and see the diff.

Not uniform in all US states either.

The diff is ( among other things) the homeowner can pay off the loan and have a year to do so.

The article listed is saying he home islost o new owner if it gets to tax lien sale and the orig owner does not step up.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Not uniform in all US states either.

Sorry 'bout that...we will try harder to harmonize state laws to make ignorant anti-American rants from Canada more plausible.

[guyser]

Sorry 'bout that...we will try harder to harmonize state laws to make ignorant anti-American rants from Canada more plausible.

Huh?

[bush_cheney2004]

Huh?

No worries....you played the straight man for that joke.

[guyser]

No worries....you played the straight man for that joke.

ah.....ok

[BC_chick]

Property owners pay taxes at a mill rate determined by elected and appointed officials. This is for school district taxes, county taxes, park board, and other taxing districts.

So the moral of the story is: Vote on tax referenda and PAY YOUR FRICKIN TAXES! DUH!

What do they do to tax deadbeats in Canada....give them the Victoria Cross?

I think the point was that the punishment does not fit the crime. Clearly you missed it.

ETA: you too, Bonam.

Edited July 15, 2012 by BC_chick