Jordanian lawmaker pulls a gun on a critic on live TV

kraychik · July 8, 2012

The "political activist" on the left accused the Jordanian lawmaker on the right of being a Mossad agent. That's about all it takes to get another Jew-hating Muslim Arab to pull a gun on you, considering this is the worst thing in the world that one can be (aside from being a homosexual Mossad agent, of course... or a woman).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Dc8GliNTE

Edited July 8, 2012 by kraychik

Signals.Cpl · July 8, 2012

The "political activist" on the left accused the Jordanian lawmaker on the right of being a Mossad agent. That's about all it takes to get another Jew-hating Muslim Arab to pull a gun on you, considering this is the worst thing in the world that one can be (aside from being a homosexual Mossad agent, of course... or a woman).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Dc8GliNTE

How did you get all that? Do you speak the language?

kraychik · July 8, 2012

How did you get all that? Do you speak the language?

Are you suggesting that I'm misrepresenting the dialogue? I want you to tell me you don't believe me.

Signals.Cpl · July 8, 2012

Are you suggesting that I'm misrepresenting the dialogue? I want you to tell me you don't believe me.

I am saying anyone can put a video on youtube and "explain" what happened. I can take that video and give it a different spin for a different cause if I so choose.

kraychik · July 8, 2012

I am saying anyone can put a video on youtube and "explain" what happened. I can take that video and give it a different spin for a different cause if I so choose.

Tell me I'm lying, then.

Signals.Cpl · July 8, 2012

Tell me I'm lying, then.

I don't speak the language so I can't tell if its the right translation or not.

DogOnPorch · July 8, 2012

It's as kraychik describes. The video has been going around for a couple of days now.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4417163/MP-Mohammad-Shawabka-pulls-a-gun-on-Jordanian-TV.html

bleeding heart · July 8, 2012

According to the link, he also called him "a thief." How do we know that's not what really set him off?

TheNewTeddy · July 8, 2012

Are you suggesting that I'm misrepresenting the dialogue? I want you to tell me you don't believe me.

I don't believe you because you wont tell us how you know. If you told us how you know (that you speak the language, spoke directly to someone who did, etc) then I would believe you, but your defensiveness and refusal to answer leads me to think you are, indeed, telling lies.

Peter F · July 8, 2012

According to the link, he also called him "a thief." How do we know that's not what really set him off?

being called a Mossad agent isnt a bad thing. Being called a thief is. Seems that on the face of it the slander of 'Thief' is what set him off. On the other hand I would be insulted by someone saying I'm a spy for a foreign country. Thats pretty slanderous too.

Argus · July 8, 2012

being called a Mossad agent isnt a bad thing. Being called a thief is. Seems that on the face of it the slander of 'Thief' is what set him off. On the other hand I would be insulted by someone saying I'm a spy for a foreign country. Thats pretty slanderous too.

Slanderous? It will get you killed in much of the Muslim world if it's believed. These people are not exactly enlightened. You can even find their political representatives pulling guns on people on live TV. :rolleyes:

kraychik · July 8, 2012

I don't speak the language so I can't tell if its the right translation or not.

There's a reason I want you to call me a liar, which is essentially what you're implying with your demand for proof that the Jordanian lawmaker was accused of being a Mossad agent. This reveals a lot about your ignorance of these societies. It is only hard for you to believe the truth about this exchange because you think it is far-fetched that a Muslim Arab "political activist" (critic of the government) would accuse a politician he disliked of being a Mossad agent. This is not an uncommon accusation in Muslim or Arab societies to be hurled against a political enemy, and it is used intentionally to feed off of the virulent anti-Semitism that is endemic to these societies. You seem to be unaware of this phenomenon, as well. What you don't realize is how much you reveal about yourself, you assumptions and your ignorance about the region and its inhabitants, through the very little you actually said. No doubt you hoped your short request for proof that the exchange occurred as I said it did was innocuous, but in reality it revealed a lot about you.

kraychik · July 8, 2012

According to the link, he also called him "a thief." How do we know that's not what really set him off?

Is that a serious comment?

bleeding heart · July 8, 2012

Is that a serious comment?

Is that a serious question?

kraychik · July 8, 2012

I don't believe you because you wont tell us how you know. If you told us how you know (that you speak the language, spoke directly to someone who did, etc) then I would believe you, but your defensiveness and refusal to answer leads me to think you are, indeed, telling lies.

Of course you don't believe me, because you are an oblivious leftist who is absolutely shocked that the anti-Semitism of this society is so intense that the absurd accusation of being a Mossad agent would trigger such a response. It floors you because you live in a fantasy land where all societies and cultures are essentially the same. People who live in Realville (to borrow a term from Rush Limbaugh), however, weren't really that shocked at all to come across this exchange. ]

You also greatly misunderstood my tone. It should've been quite clear that I wanted to trap Signals.Cpl into calling me a liar (or stupid enough to believe a false story), so that I could throw it back in his face and expose his ignorance. Thank you for doing the job for him.

kraychik · July 8, 2012

Slanderous? It will get you killed in much of the Muslim world if it's believed. These people are not exactly enlightened. You can even find their political representatives pulling guns on people on live TV.

Exactly. This truth, however, cannot be accepted by the leftists who observe the false doctrine cultural/social/religious relativity, lest it shatter a core illusion of their worldview.

kraychik · July 8, 2012

being called a Mossad agent isnt a bad thing.

Thank you for exposing the ignorance of the left.

Edited July 8, 2012 by kraychik

kraychik · July 8, 2012

It's as kraychik describes. The video has been going around for a couple of days now.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4417163/MP-Mohammad-Shawabka-pulls-a-gun-on-Jordanian-TV.html

The translation is even available from the English-language propaganda arm of the Iranian dictatorship.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/08/249926/jordan-mp-whips-out-gun-in-live-tv-show/

“You are a spy in the pay of” the Syrian government, Shawabka said.

Murad, in return, accused Shawabka of being a spy in the pay of the Israeli Mossad agency and said the lawmaker was “a thief.”

I wanted Signals.Cpl to call me a liar, I really did. Although he sort of implied it, even if he didn't explicitly state it, which is good enough for me. Thankfully, a few leftists did come in here and make hilarious comments.

Signals.Cpl · July 8, 2012

There's a reason I want you to call me a liar, which is essentially what you're implying with your demand for proof that the Jordanian lawmaker was accused of being a Mossad agent.

No, I require proof as to the context of the video. I could take that video and put in a different "translation" of the argument and give it a completely different spin on the video. What you are asking here is for people to trust a translation that could conceivably come from someone who like myself does not speak the language and is therefore pulling the "translation" out of thin air.

This reveals a lot about your ignorance of these societies.

You are right, just because I want some proof as to the authenticity of the translation I MUST be ignorant of those societies.

It is only hard for you to believe the truth about this exchange because you think it is far-fetched that a Muslim Arab "political activist" (critic of the government) would accuse a politician he disliked of being a Mossad agent.

Where did I say that? I wanted a proper translation from a reliable source rather than someone who may or may not speak the language in question. Just because that is an insult does not mean that this was indeed the insult that spark the confrontation, and you are saying that this is an insult in that society therefore it MUST be what sparked this confrontation shows your ignorance.

This is not an uncommon accusation in Muslim or Arab societies to be hurled against a political enemy, and it is used intentionally to feed off of the virulent anti-Semitism that is endemic to these societies.

I don't care how common this accusation is, what I want to know is what evidence you have to support the claim about this specific case.

You seem to be unaware of this phenomenon, as well.

What phenomenon? The one where you take a video that was translated by someone who may or may not speak the language and then get defensive when someone asks for supporting evidence.

What you don't realize is how much you reveal about yourself, you assumptions and your ignorance about the region and its inhabitants, through the very little you actually said.

Please elaborate how I "revealed" so much by simply asking for a proper translation? For all I know that video could have a completely different argument in it and you seem to get defensive when someone asks for more reliable translation.

No doubt you hoped your short request for proof that the exchange occurred as I said it did was innocuous, but in reality it revealed a lot about you.

What did it reveal? That I want reliable evidence? For all I know it could be your youtube account and your translation on that video which would actually explain your apparent fear of questions aimed at the reliability of the translation.

What this tells me is that you made a discussion, and you expect to have everyone listen to you and take a youtube video with a questionable translation and your reply made me even more curious as to why you are so defensive over a simple question.

kraychik · July 8, 2012

Honestly, I didn't anticipate that anyone would disbelieve my description of the dialogue, which came from other sources. Of course, the left still does surprise me on occasion. I won't belabour the point, but as I've already stated, your request for proof is rooted in only a few possibilities. Either you think I'm lying, or you think I'm stupid. Beyond that, it's hard for you to believe that such a hostile exchange could transpire the way it was described, which tells us that you're pretty oblivious about the rampant anti-Semitism in the Middle East.

Signals.Cpl · July 8, 2012

The translation is even available from the English-language propaganda arm of the Iranian dictatorship.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/07/08/249926/jordan-mp-whips-out-gun-in-live-tv-show/

“You are a spy in the pay of” the Syrian government, Shawabka said.

Murad, in return, accused Shawabka of being a spy in the pay of the Israeli Mossad agency and said the lawmaker was “a thief.”

I wanted Signals.Cpl to call me a liar, I really did. Although he sort of implied it, even if he didn't explicitly state it, which is good enough for me. Thankfully, a few leftists did come in here and make hilarious comments.

And how did you intent to trap me? I asked for proof and you demanded I call you a liar without presenting any proof, seems to me that you are not a liar, just extremely ignorant and with the belief that we should take you on your word...just because you say something it does not mean it's a fact/

Signals.Cpl · July 8, 2012

Honestly, I didn't anticipate that anyone would disbelieve my description of the dialogue, which came from other sources.

Here is a tip, present the other sources when someone asks how you know that what they are saying.

Of course, the left still does surprise me on occasion.

If you think I am on the left...well you have some serious problems...

I won't belabour the point, but as I've already stated, your request for proof is rooted in only a few possibilities.

That I want evidence? That just because karychik says its true doesn't necessarily make it so.

Either you think I'm lying, or you think I'm stupid.

Column B

Beyond that, it's hard for you to believe that such a hostile exchange could transpire the way it was described, which tells us that you're pretty oblivious about the rampant anti-Semitism in the Middle East.

And you seem to be oblivious to the fact that not every argument in the middle east is directly connected to anti-Semitism, either you don't understand that those societies are a little more complex then how you portray them or your extreme rightwing view is blinding you to any facts that don't conform to your limited understanding and view.

kraychik · July 8, 2012

And how did you intent to trap me? I asked for proof and you demanded I call you a liar without presenting any proof, seems to me that you are not a liar, just extremely ignorant and with the belief that we should take you on your word...just because you say something it does not mean it's a fact/

That's fine, but the mistrust you have is grounded in an ignorance of certain common themes in the Middle East. Like I said, either you thought I was intentionally lying or that I was not sharp enough to discern between a believable source for the translation, or that I don't speak the language.

Suppose I posted a propaganda video from a suicide bomber made prior to his or her operation and described the anti-American, anti-Semitic, or other hate in his speech. Would you also have a hard time believing my description of that dialogue? The point is that the events as I described them wouldn't have been hard to believe (which prompted your suggestions that I was either lying or stupid) for any person with a modicum of familiarity with the Middle East.

Signals.Cpl · July 8, 2012

That's fine, but the mistrust you have is grounded in an ignorance of certain common themes in the Middle East. Like I said, either you thought I was intentionally lying or that I was not sharp enough to discern between a believable source for the translation, or that I don't speak the language.

It's not about you, its about me asking for something more reliable than a youtube translation that for all I know you wrote.

Suppose I posted a propaganda video from a suicide bomber made prior to his or her operation and described the anti-American, anti-Semitic, or other hate in his speech. Would you also have a hard time believing my description of that dialogue?

1) Suppose he is Chechen suicide bomber aiming his attack against Russia for something related to Russia directly, should I still believe that your translation is right if you state that it is anti-American and anti-Semitic?

2)Hate in his speech? I think there is a pretty good chance that hate would be present in a suicide bomber, besides "other hate in his speech" is so broad that it could encompass everything from hating his wife to hating his dog.

The point is that the events as I described them wouldn't have been hard to believe (which prompted your suggestions that I was either lying or stupid) for any person with a modicum of familiarity with the Middle East.

Just because its not hard to believe doesn't make it true. Just because being called a Mossad agent is a grave insult does not give you the right to interpret EVERY argument as such. It seems to me that you are arguing that the context of the video is irrelevant because being called a Mossad agent is a grave insult and thus it explains the video, you don't care about the facts you just assume thats what the argument is about and go with it.

kraychik · July 8, 2012

It's not about you, its about me asking for something more reliable than a youtube translation that for all I know you wrote.

1) Suppose he is Chechen suicide bomber aiming his attack against Russia for something related to Russia directly, should I still believe that your translation is right if you state that it is anti-American and anti-Semitic?

2)Hate in his speech? I think there is a pretty good chance that hate would be present in a suicide bomber, besides "other hate in his speech" is so broad that it could encompass everything from hating his wife to hating his dog.

Just because its not hard to believe doesn't make it true. Just because being called a Mossad agent is a grave insult does not give you the right to interpret EVERY argument as such. It seems to me that you are arguing that the context of the video is irrelevant because being called a Mossad agent is a grave insult and thus it explains the video, you don't care about the facts you just assume thats what the argument is about and go with it.

Well, "the facts" have been provided to you, no need to go around this circle again with a supposedly-conservative man who quotes a leftist like Mohandas Gandhi in his signature.