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[Choke]

Just because the NDP is on the extreme left on social issues that doesn't mean opposing their ideas makes the Liberals right-wing. The Liberals do have some socially conservative Socreds, etc, still kicking around, but they don't control party policy.

[maplesyrup]

Big right wing money versus the ordinary people of BC - I'm looking forward to the campaign.

[Cartman]

I am aware of the CAW and its tenuous relationship with the NDP. Buzz Hargrove cannot really be said to be an uncritical follower of the NDP. He has been well known to blast them when need be. I did not see anything in the link relevant to this discussion.

Your initial assertion was that the NDP was legally tied to big unions. I want a link to the law that demonstrates as much. Is it a federal law or a provincial law? Many unions do not support the NDP, any relationships that may exist can be severed at any point in time and many unionized workers do not follow their leadership. Buzz is not going to follow his members into the voting booth. But, I would like to know what is wrong with union workers supporting their interests? I am sure that the Liberals take a few $$ from corporations.

Just as it would be silly for me to stereotype and say that the Liberals are legally tied to corporations, it is silly for you to say as much about the NDP and unions.

Just because the NDP is on the extreme left on social issues that doesn't mean opposing their ideas makes the Liberals right-wing. The Liberals do have some socially conservative Socreds, etc, still kicking around, but they don't control party policy.

Such creative discourse used to describe the NDP. Do you mean just "extreme left" or "super-duper, radical fantastically, communist-like, demented left"? If they are so extreme, why have they formed government in the past and why are they competing against the Liberals now? Are the many British Columbians who will vote for them "extreme"? By definition, is this even possible? Do they only get support from extremists or are there a lot of fools who are brainwashed into voting for them?

You are the first person I have ever heard say the BC Liberals are not right-wing. They are hardly Trudeau Liberals or Wilson Liberals or were they just extreme too?

[Choke]

Big right wing money versus the ordinary people of BC - I'm looking forward to the campaign.

Me too, I'll be one of the ordinary people volunteering for the Liberals.

I would like to know what is wrong with union workers supporting their interests?

It isn't in their interest as human beings to vote NDP. The NDP drives jobs away and racks up debt in the process.

Just as it would be silly for me to stereotype and say that the Liberals are legally tied to corporations, it is silly for you to say as much about the NDP and unions.

The CAW has a contract with the NDP. That's what I was referring to.

Are the many British Columbians who will vote for them "extreme"?

No, the NDP's fiscal policies are pretty moderate and that's how they get votes outside Vancouver and Victoria, while in the cities, the people are pretty left-wing socially and that's how they win votes there.

You are the first person I have ever heard say the BC Liberals are not right-wing. They are hardly Trudeau Liberals or Wilson Liberals or were they just extreme too?

I think that the Liberals are moderately right wing fiscally. They haven't gotten rid of universal healthcare, or welfare, or even prescription drug coverage. They could have done all those things, but they didn't. I think they're moderate socially. I think Trudeau liberals are NDPers with tact.

[Cartman]

QUOTE 

I would like to know what is wrong with union workers supporting their interests?

It isn't in their interest as human beings to vote NDP. The NDP drives jobs away and racks up debt in the process.

You know better what is in another person's interests? You really are incredible! Are you an advice columnist or something?

[Choke]

I always vote for the party who I think will do the most good for the most people, I think of the good of everyone, then make a decision, don't you?

[maplesyrup]

BC Liberal party and its supporters are in a daze these days not knowing quite which way to turn. They were expecting a cakewalk re-election victory next May, and have been stunned by what happened in Surrey Panorama Ridge.

Now it's a tossup who will win, the New Democrats sprouting a fresh new face with their new leader Carol James, or the Liberals and their old drunken stumblebum leader BC Premier Gordon Campbell. The Liberals are obviously desperate and their supporters under that kind of stress will say a lot of outlandish and off the wall comments.

British Columbians are tired of Gordon Campbell's extreme agenda.

They've had enough of his mean-spirited polices. Enough of longer health waitlists and cuts to classrooms. Enough of privatization. Enough of taxpayer-funded partisan advertising. And enough of the last-minute political makeovers the premier is trying to give himself.

[Choke]

I don't really care about Campbell either way, he can stay or go, but I don't want the NDP to win.

[maplesyrup]

Nice try, but it will be one or the other.

[Cartman]

I always vote for the party who I think will do the most good for the most people, I think of the good of everyone

I don't really care about Campbell either way, he can stay or go, but I don't want the NDP to win.

Do you not see a glaring contradiction here?

[Choke]

Campbell the man, not the Liberal party. I mean I wouldn't mind a new leader for the Liberals.

[caesar]

I think that the Liberals are moderately right wing fiscally. They haven't gotten rid of universal healthcare, or welfare, or even prescription drug coverage. They could have done all those things, but they didn't. I think they're moderate socially

They haven't got rid of universal health care??????? Sure put a big dint in it. We don't have access to healthcare in a reasonable time in this province( despite the increase in health care premiums and the downgrades hospital services) unless you pay for the services privately or are a politician.

How many people did they kick off welfare/ how many handicapped or disabled were told to PROVE they can't work???

How many seniors are paying huge sums for their prescriptions now.

They could not have done all those things if they wish to get transfer payments from the federal government. They did as much as they could. Cuts to womens and children's services that brought a chiding from the UN

[Choke]

They haven't got rid of universal health care??????? Sure put a big dint in it.

I view that as a positive thing. But the issue at hand is whether he's extreme or not.

We don't have access to healthcare in a reasonable time in this province( despite the increase in health care premiums and the downgrades hospital services) unless you pay for the services privately or are a politician.

We can't afford a better system. Unless you want to jack up taxes on regular people to pay for it. Otherwise you could try to tax corporations and the wealthy...and they'll move out of province.

How many people did they kick off welfare/ how many handicapped or disabled were told to PROVE they can't work???

Not enough. Welfare should be abolished. Pensions for those that absolutely need them are good IMO, and employment insurance for those that lose their jobs, but paying into an abyss like welfare is simply an exercise in futility.

How many seniors are paying huge sums for their prescriptions now.

If they didn't save money for retirement, that isn't my problem.

They could not have done all those things if they wish to get transfer payments from the federal government.

We put more into transfer payments than we get out, I'd like to opt out of that system entirely.

They did as much as they could. Cuts to womens and children's services that brought a chiding from the UN

I think I'm gonna get a bumper sticker made "Campbell's Cuts, Not Deep Enough!" and another one that says "Olympics Before Welfare".

[caesar]

Well choke; we all know where your "logic" lies. Kill Iraqis so they don't suffer from sanctions. You would probably like to kill off the seniors that built this country and paid for the infrastructures you take for granted.

Grow up.

[Choke]

Got to love thread-jacking. If you want to discuss that issue, use the appropriate thread.

[caesar]

Not thread jacking; just stating your logic and compassion in all areas is very lacking in logic and compassion.

We can't afford a better system. Unless you want to jack up taxes on regular people to pay for it. Otherwise you could try to tax corporations and the wealthy...and they'll move out of province

We sure can; we pay enough in taxes and premiums, already. Health care is more important than some stupid road to a ski hill or a fancy train system to the airport. Rav could have been done much more cost effective going down Arbutus corridor. Why should all BCers pay for the expensive risky Olympics. If the government would quit sending all the jobs out of country; perhaps we would have more people working and contributing to our tax base. Those foreign workers doing government work and building our ferries will not be paying taxes to the BC government.

[Cartman]

Caesar said:

Well choke; we all know where your "logic" lies.

Choke said:

Got to love thread-jacking. If you want to discuss that issue, use the appropriate thread.

As a vet. MLW poster, Caesar is well known for staying on topic so I don't think that is the "problem".

[Choke]

Health care is more important than some stupid road to a ski hill or a fancy train system to the airport.

Not to me. Transportation is a more basic necessity than healthcare, if you can't get to the hospital, it becomes pretty useless. Furthermore, people's personal choices, like whether to smoke or eat unhealthy food or not will not affect the cost of the RAV line.

Why should all BCers pay for the expensive risky Olympics.

The pride and the glory.

If the government would quit sending all the jobs out of country; perhaps we would have more people working and contributing to our tax base. Those foreign workers doing government work and building our ferries will not be paying taxes to the BC government.

If local companies were able to compete price-wise, this wouldn't be a problem. For them to compete, we need to get rid of unions and labour standards, or withdraw from the global economy and introduce high tariffs.

Caesar is well known for staying on topic

I figured as much, but he needed a reminder, this has nothing to do with Iraq.

[Slavik44]

If local companies were able to compete price-wise, this wouldn't be a problem. For them to compete, we need to get rid of unions and labour standards, or withdraw from the global economy and introduce high tariffs.

Could you please go back to your economics text book, and read the first page over again, you kow the one that says, that the models used in this book is based on

the assumption that all markets are perfectly competetive. Then after that the second page the one that outlines Market efficiency versus Market equity, and basically lays it out plainly that economists don't care about equality, and that an efficient market isn't always the most benificial market for every one in society.

[Stoker]

The Dark Lord strikes again........

........Not once, but twice

This goes back to my question in the other thread, whats the BC NDP's platform?

[maplesyrup]

You're a big boy, you figure it out!

[Stoker]

You're a big boy, you figure it out!

Fear......right? Same platform as Harper and Kerry.....

[caesar]

If local companies were able to compete price-wise, this wouldn't be a problem. For them to compete, we need to get rid of unions and labour standards, or withdraw from the global economy and introduce high tariffs.

So you would have us sink to third world standards. Gee thanks a lot. We need to work towards improving standards in those countries. There is plenty of extra profit at the top for CEO's; Cut cost where these is lots of fat; at the top.

[caesar]

Well choke; the world doesn't revolve around you. It is not your job to decide if I or any other poster is off topic.

We have an excellent moderator on the forum. Your services are not needed.

[August1991]

Salvik44:

the one that outlines Market efficiency versus Market equity, and basically lays it out plainly that economists don't care about equality, and that an efficient market isn't always the most benificial market for every one in society.

Caesar:

So you would have us sink to third world standards. Gee thanks a lot. We need to work towards improving standards in those countries.

It seems to me, the question is why I should pay more for the expensive domestic doodad rather than the cheaper imported doodad. (In the BC case, should you buy expensive domestic boats or cheaper foreign boats.)

In my mind, the best argument is that we should help family. Keep the money, work, benefits among ourselves, among our own.

Proiblem: Where do we draw the line of family/not-family? City? Province? Country? Planet?

Think of your own "traditional" family. How do you decide whether to keep it "in the family" or to share it with outsiders?

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I don't mean to "hijack" this thread. I mean simply to ask whether the BC ferry purchase deal was truly bad. Was it?