More Cuts to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans on the way

[cybercoma]

I've been here long enough to know how to answer a question on this forum. We don't know the exact rationale behind the decision to move the boat. To assume that CCG didn't really think it through is pretty naive.

You know, you might otherwise be right, but the same thing could have been said about assuming Vic Toews didn't read the legislation he put forward to the House.

[cybercoma]

But does it have the largest call volume? That's the real question.

I find this question strange, especially coming from you. It's like someone else has been using your account over the last couple months.

When it comes to emergency response should the primary consideration call volume or response time? The new plan drastically reduces response time. People in BC are seriously concerned about this. The division left open is seriously concerned about it.

There are some places where you shouldn't be cutting corners to save a buck.

[eyeball]

the real issue is inclusiveness; rather, the lack of it. We have a Harper Conservative Minister stating local consultation with VanCity was done... countered by Mayor Robertson. We have numerous accounts from concerned affected groups that they were not notified/consulted. Finally, we get an outright admission from the Harper Conservative government/Coast Guard, that no outside consultation was undertaken - none!

I agree with all that (except the semantic quibble that it's local consultation that's not taking place) it's just that I've been experiencing this at the hands of DFO for decades so excuse my puzzlement at why Canadians are just taking notice now...welcome to my world ya'll. You can be sure you'll be seeing more of this in your regions as I've been pointing out in this forum for years now how coastal communities are like little canaries in a coal mine.

[Smallc]

I find this question strange, especially coming from you. It's like someone else has been using your account over the last couple months.

It's just that this place kind of sucks now.

When it comes to emergency response should the primary consideration call volume or response time? The new plan drastically reduces response time. People in BC are seriously concerned about this. The division left open is seriously concerned about it.

Call volume. If a centre has a higher call volume, it should get more resources, because it's responding to more calls closer to it. Response time overall will be improved.

There are some places where you shouldn't be cutting corners to save a buck.

No one is cutting corners...they're repositioning resources.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Smallc

[eyeball]

When it comes to emergency response should the primary consideration call volume or response time? The new plan drastically reduces response time. People in BC are seriously concerned about this. The division left open is seriously concerned about it.

What time, the time it takes to redirect a distress call on channel 16 through a repeater can't possibly be more than a few seconds and a mayday by GMDSS is virtually instantaneous.

The local and regional mix of volunteer and paid SAR units ( they should all be paid as far as I'm concerned) will remain the same and the only change is they'll receive their initial notification from Victoria Radio instead of Tofino Radio (which was actually always in Ucluelet). As for the local knowledge of radio operators most of our's seem to rotate in and out and never stay long anyway so how knowledgeable they actually are of really local names and places may not be as big an issue as people think. In any case the virtually universal use of easy to use GPS plotters makes directing search efforts almost effortless in a navigational sense.

The other change is that the radar image coming off Mt Ozzard that's managing vessel traffic in and out of Juan de Fuca Straight will be monitored in Victoria instead of Ucluelet - Victoria gets the image already. I suppose if the radar on the mountain top needs servicing they'll have to send a tech by helicopter as opposed to driving up which would probably takes as much time. There's the cost of the occasional helicopter but there's also the savings from not having to maintain a road, gate, and storage shed for a snow machine etc. I honestly cannot think of any SAR operations close to shore, which comprise the vast majority, that would have to rely on this radar so that's not an issue.

Notwithstanding this I still think lighthouses should be manned to provide human weather observations that I know from experience machines still do not match for timely accurate reporting.

Edited June 12, 2012 by eyeball

[cybercoma]

Here is an interesting article I came across on this topic.

It seems that Vancouver Island Conservative MP James Lunney is on the defensive about the budget cuts to search and rescue. He claims he was very much against it, but he blames the cuts on bureaucrats, rather than the Harper Government. New Westminster-Coquitlam NDP MP Fin Donnelly said that Lunney should have the conviction to stand up for the bill that he voted for, otherwise he should have voted against it.

This is the second Conservative MP in BC to come out against the Harper Government recently. David Wilks was sent to the woodshed and had an attitude adjustment after video of a meeting with his constituents went viral.

[eyeball]

Veteran Vancouver Island MP James Lunney told a radio station last week that he was concerned about the closure of the Kitsilano search-and-rescue station in Vancouver and a number of marine communications centres across Canada, including centres in Vancouver, Comox and Tofino.

Tofino Radio is not and never was in Tofino, it's always been in Ucluelet. Lunney doesn't seem any more aware of this little quirk within his own riding than the bureaucrats in Ottawa - which might as well be on the dark side of the moon for all the effort it takes to incorporate a local view of things into it's policies.

[dre]

I've been here long enough to know how to answer a question on this forum. We don't know the exact rationale behind the decision to move the boat. To assume that CCG didn't really think it through is pretty naive.

Actually its no less naive than just having faith in the decision.

[Peter F]

Tofino Radio is not and never was in Tofino, it's always been in Ucluelet. Lunney doesn't seem any more aware of this little quirk within his own riding than the bureaucrats in Ottawa - which might as well be on the dark side of the moon for all the effort it takes to incorporate a local view of things into it's policies.

From the Coast Guards "Radio Aids to Marine Navigation" (my italics of text)

RAMN 2012 - Pacific and Western Arctic

TOFINO, BRITISH COLUMBIA

Marine Communications and Traffic Services Centre

MMSI: 00 316 0012

Call Sign: VAE

Hours: H24

For Radio Services, call Tofino Coast Guard Radio.

For Vessel Traffic Services, call Tofino Traffic – refer to Part 3.

Radio service available in English only.

Mailing Address:

Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Canadian Coast Guard

Tofino MCTS Centre

Officer-in-Charge – MCTS Operations

PO Box 190

Ucluelet, BC V0R 3A0

It should be no surprise that Lunney refers to the station as Tofino

Edited June 19, 2012 by Peter F

[eyeball]

It should be no surprise that Lunney refers to the station as Tofino

Except he referred to the station as being in Tofino, which it isn't.

[bleeding heart]

so excuse my puzzlement at why Canadians are just taking notice now...welcome to my world ya'll. You can be sure you'll be seeing more of this in your regions as I've been pointing out in this forum for years now how coastal communities are like little canaries in a coal mine.

Hey, man...I live in the Maritimes, so...yeah.

Edited June 20, 2012 by bleeding heart

[The_Squid]

The Kitts beach station (and sole lifeboat) arent equipped to deal with any oil spills……

Not true. There is oil spill response equipment at the base.

As to students taking over primary SAR, though sounding bad in practice, the local lifeguards/rescue boats have been doing that for decades…….

Students in a RHIB are not going to be as well prepared or trained as well as a properly equipped CCG base with a Lifeboat.

And no one is shutting down the VPD Marine Unit thats based in the inlet……

VPD are not CCG and are not as well trained in rescue, oil spill response, etc. as the CCG are.

As to the response time from Sea Island, the inclusion of the newer Hovercraft will certainly help cover greater distances, well the Kitts beach lifeboat, based closer to the Airport will allow the CCG to respond to calls up the Fraser to Delta Port with the conventional boat, where as before, the speed of the Hovercraft up the river was always underutilized….

This statement does not even make any sense. How was the hovercraft speed underutilized in the river? I haven't seen specs for the new craft vs the old. Do you have a link to back up your claim of greater coverage?

The river response by the hovercraft is good already. The busiest port in Canada now has no CCG presence. That is pathetic in my view.

Edited June 20, 2012 by The_Squid

[Wilber]

VPD are not CCG and are not as well trained in rescue, oil spill response, etc. as the CCG are.

The VPD shouldn't enter into it, their job is policing. It is not up to the residential property tax payers of Vancouver pay for coast guard services in the port of Vancouver.

It wouldn't surprise me if this was expected though. The job of policing our borders outside of border crossings falls largely on municipal police forces.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Wilber

[Smallc]

Actually, SAR is often the responsibility of local law enforcement. Vancouver harbour is not the open ocean, so....

[The_Squid]

Actually, SAR is often the responsibility of local law enforcement. Vancouver harbour is not the open ocean, so....

They participate in SAR but it is not their primary responsibility. And, unlike a CCG SAR station that is specifically there to perform that function, they are not as well equipped to perform SAR. Nor are they going to be putting in the proper funding to take over that function.

[eyeball]

The VPD shouldn't enter into it, their job is policing. It is not up to the residential property tax payers of Vancouver pay for coast guard services in the port of Vancouver.

Why not? Preventing terrorist attacks are certainly touted as a raison d'etre for the brave new coast guard of Harper's Government so why shouldn't every Canadian pony up the costs?

It wouldn't surprise me if this was expected though. The job of policing our borders outside of border crossings falls largely on municipal police forces.

Dealing with terrorism was usually the job of the police but now it's mainly the army's.

[Smallc]

They participate in SAR but it is not their primary responsibility.

Ground and inland water SAR is their primary responsibility. This is a grey area. There will still be coast guard assets available, and, in the eyes of the CCG, it seems those assets will be more strategically located for their actual usage.

[eyeball]

Actually, SAR is often the responsibility of local law enforcement. Vancouver harbour is not the open ocean, so....

It's pretty rare to see a search in my region not include local police, park wardens (fed and prov), volunteer coast guard auxiliary, and often whoever is out on the water or ready to go assisting the CCG.

Most of the volunteers are always eager to go, some are probably adrenaline junkies like some volunteer firefighters and many are trying to rack up as much sea-time as possible in their quest for greater marine certification and or a paid job with the CG.

Edited June 20, 2012 by eyeball

[Guest Derek L]

Not true. There is oil spill response equipment at the base.

No there isn’t, ( Small booms are already located further up the inlet at the oil terminal) that’s the reasonability of the Environmental Response Division and require a much large vessel with large davits for launching the equipment……..The larger vessels are stationed in Victoria out by Ogden Point.

Students in a RHIB are not going to be as well prepared or trained as well as a properly equipped CCG base with a Lifeboat.

There’s more city Life Guards on duty, during daytime, on large beaches then there are Coast Guard personal at Kitts.

VPD are not CCG and are not as well trained in rescue, oil spill response, etc. as the CCG are.

Neither departments are trained as well in oil response as the private personal at the Petro Canada, Shell, Esso and Kinder Morgan terminals………As to SAR, as mentioned by smallc, it’s an inland water way……….The VPD is more then adequate.

This statement does not even make any sense. How was the hovercraft speed underutilized in the river? I haven't seen specs for the new craft vs the old. Do you have a link to back up your claim of greater coverage?

The river response by the hovercraft is good already. The busiest port in Canada now has no CCG presence. That is pathetic in my view.

You know not of what you speak………The Hovercraft are unable to travel at a fraction of their top speed in the Fraser River due in part to safety of other traffic, the physical nature of the river and erosion to the Richmond dykes……..

As to Canada’s “busiest port”, again you’ve demonstrated you don’t know what you’re talking about……..The “Port of Vancouver” is made up of numerous terminals, with the largest being Delta Port (Up the Fraser River) and Roberts Bank (In the Georgia Strait by the BC Ferry Terminal) with both locations being closer to Sea Island (Richmond) then Kitts Beach (Vancouver).

[The_Squid]

As to Canada’s “busiest port”, again you’ve demonstrated you don’t know what you’re talking about……..The “Port of Vancouver” is made up of numerous terminals, with the largest being Delta Port (Up the Fraser River) and Roberts Bank (In the Georgia Strait by the BC Ferry Terminal) with both locations being closer to Sea Island (Richmond) then Kitts Beach (Vancouver).

Nope Once again you are wrong. The Port Metro Vancouver is the busiest port in Canada. That's the downtown port. Are you just making this up as you go along? The information is easy to find.

http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/en/about.aspx

There’s more city Life Guards on duty, during daytime, on large beaches then there are Coast Guard personal at Kitts.

Ok. And lifeguards are going to do SAR in your world? This is pure nonsense.

As to SAR, as mentioned by smallc, it’s an inland water way……….The VPD is more then adequate.

The ocean is inland? Where do you live? What a ridiculous statement. The VPD is adequate? You're serious? LOL

[Wilber]

Why not? Preventing terrorist attacks are certainly touted as a raison d'etre for the brave new coast guard of Harper's Government so why shouldn't every Canadian pony up the costs?

Dealing with terrorism was usually the job of the police but now it's mainly the army's.

Then let every Canadian do it, don't leave it up to the property tax payers of border municipalities.

[Guest Derek L]

Nope Once again you are wrong. The Port Metro Vancouver is the busiest port in Canada. That's the downtown port. Are you just making this up as you go along? The information is easy to find.

http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/en/about.aspx

Perhaps you should edumacate yourself further……From your own link:

http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/en/about/portoverview.aspx

Positioned on the southwest coast of British Columbia in Canada, Port Metro Vancouver is North America’s gateway to the world’s most dynamic economies. Port jurisdiction covers more than 600 kilometres of shoreline and extends from Point Roberts at the Canada/U.S. border through Burrard Inlet to Port Moody and Indian Arm, and from the mouth of the Fraser River, eastward to the Fraser Valley, north along the Pitt River to Pitt Lake, and includes the north and middle arms of the Fraser River.

Ok. And lifeguards are going to do SAR in your world? This is pure nonsense.

Off Vancouver’s recreational beaches, sure, why not? What do you think their purpose is?

The ocean is inland? Where do you live? What a ridiculous statement. The VPD is adequate? You're serious? LOL

Where do I live? Up the hill from Port Moody and the Burrard inlet

[The_Squid]

Perhaps you should edumacate yourself further……From your own link:

http://www.portmetrovancouver.com/en/about/portoverview.aspx

Off Vancouver’s recreational beaches, sure, why not? What do you think their purpose is?

Where do I live? Up the hill from Port Moody and the Burrard inlet

And the downtown port is the busiest in Canada. Nothing you posted refutes that.

Lifeguards are going to swim out and help vessels in distress? Wow.... Ok.

For living near the ocean, you certainly don't know much about it.... You sound like a city-person when you suggest lifeguards can do SAR.

Edited June 21, 2012 by The_Squid

[cybercoma]

And the downtown port is the busiest in Canada. Nothing you posted refutes that.

Lifeguards are going to swim out and help vessels in distress? Wow.... Ok.

For living near the ocean, you certainly don't know much about it.... You sound like a city-person when you suggest lifeguards can do SAR.

And what about someone having a heart attack out on the water. This is quite literally going to be life and death for some people.

[Guest Derek L]

And the downtown port is the busiest in Canada. Nothing you posted refutes that.

Lifeguards are going to swim out and help vessels in distress? Wow.... Ok.

For living near the ocean, you certainly don't know much about it.... You sound like a city-person when you suggest lifeguards can do SAR.

And nothing you posted proves your point, other then you don‘t know what you‘re talking about.……….The Vancouver wharfs don’t see a fraction of the ship, rail and road traffic as the facilities on the Fraser and Roberts Bank……….

The Lifeguards have boats………funny concept.

For someone claiming to live on an Island, you certainly don’t know what the definition of Inlet is..