Half-Way House in Veron, BC

[Stoker]

Thats all well and good MS, but Ma Jones and Hearts & Minds (where do you get this crap?) are talking about US prisions.......let's atleast try and stay on topic here

[maplesyrup]

Your God society incarcerates more people than any reporting nation.

United States prison population

The factual accuracy of this article is disputed. See the discussion page for more information.

The prison population of the United States is in a constant state of flux, increasing or decreasing based on a number of factors, including the number of arrests, length of prison sentences, parole, legislation to determine what is legal and what is not, and so on.

In 2000, the number of prisoners under the jurisdiction of the Federal or State adult correctional authorities was 1,381,892 and overall, the United States incarcerated 2,071,686 persons[1] (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p00.pdf).

In 1990 the total prison population numbered only 773,905, by 2002 it had risen to around 2.1 million[2] (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/p02.pdf).

1 of every 143 US residents is in prison in 2002, or roughly 474 out of every 100,000 Americans. This is around 22% of the total world prison population.

The three states with the lowest ratio of imprisoned to unimprisoned population are: Minnesota (121 per 100,000), Maine (128/100,000), and North Dakota (120/100,000). The three states with the highest ratio are: Louisiana (763/100,000), Texas (704/100,000), and Oklahoma (653/100,000).

The United States has the highest proportionate prison population of any reporting world nation. Russia, which is currently in the process of releasing a number of improperly incarcerated citizens, has a rate of 644 per 100,000, and a 2002 total population of around 900,000. For the most part, the U.S. rate is five to eight times that of the Western European nations and Canada. The rate in England and Wales, for example, is 139 persons imprisoned per 100,000 residents while in Norway it is 59 per 100,000.

What a wonderful role model the US is, eh?

[Stoker]

First line:

The factual accuracy of this article is disputed. See the discussion page for more information.

[maplesyrup]

With your logic Norway must be truly screwed up as they incarcerate at a very low rate.

[Stoker]

With your logic Norway must be truly screwed up as they incarcerate at a very low rate.

What are you on about now? And what logic are you referring to? Where did i bring up Norway or the United States for that mater?

How many KM is OSLO from Veron?

[maplesyrup]

First line:

The factual accuracy of this article is disputed. See the discussion page for more information.

I purposely posted that so you would you see the authors of the article don't pretend to be an authority on everything like some people around here.

[Stoker]

I purposely posted that so you would you see the authors of the article don't pretend to be an authority on everything like some people around here.

Ahh.......so you purposely back-up your claims with crap, since you don't know what your talking about

Makes sense to me

[caesar]

Maple what makes you say something like that. The Vernon citizens do have rights for a safe and secure environment. Until they can run those halfway houses without violent incidents close them down or move them out of town. Move them across the street from you.

[caesar]

The Vernon citizens have won. This halfway house will be closed Feb 1st and demolished

[JWayne625]

Let me add my two cents worth, because the same thing happened with another John Howard, half-way house in Saint John, NB a few years ago. The big difference was that the offender that did the murder here was not in for a violent crime, but while he was out one evening he committed a murder, it just happens that it was his uncle whom he murdered. There was some speculation of abuse on the part of the uncle, and therefore he was charged and convicted of manslaughter. He did his time and got out on parole, but has since been involved in the beating death of another individual and he is now back in prison convicted of, I believe 2nd degree murder.. Maybe they will keep him this time, but I have my doubts, since I don't have a lot of faith in our so-called justice system anymore.

When the John Howard Society set up these adult half-way houses and YOA Group homes in our city, in New Brunswick, I'm quite sure that assurances were given that people convicted of violence and sex related crimes would not be considered for residency at these facilities, but I can tell you that if those assurances were in fact given, that trust has been broken numerous times over the years. In most cases there has been no problems, but the few times there have been problems hasn't spoken well about the screening process which considers an inmate's appropriateness for residency.

I'm sure at one time consideration for residency to a halfway house included a committment on the part of the inmate to be actively seeking employment. If it was found that they were not looking for work, they were sent back to the institution. Maybe we should be going back to that being a requirement of residency. Otherwise we have the old saying coming true, "The devil makes work for idle hands."or something like that. As for violent offender's, they should never be considered for residency! If we were sentencing the way they do state-side with consecutive sentencing we wouldn't have the revolving door we now have.

Let's face it, everyone deserves a break, because people make mistakes, BUT, I worked for the John Howard Society for a number of years and I can tell you that the people who wind up in prison in all likelihood it wasn't their first offence that landed them there unless that first offence was very serious. Even youth's sentenced to an Open Custody Group Home, it would be a rare occurance if they landed there for committing a first offence. Court's usually impose a fine, then probation, then more probation, and more probation, and when the judge finally has had enough of looking at this individual he put's him in jail, or in the case of a Young Offender into a group home. Today we even have what they call Community Sentencing where the powers that be would have you believe that sentencing someone to house arrest is actually incarceration. This allows them to close jails and not have to maintain an actual physical prison. I can tell you that many of the individual's I have worked with over the year's would think this idea is great. They can still conduct their business without having someone looking over their shoulders 24/7. This is not incarceration regardless of what they would have you believe, it is simply a way to save some money.

[caesar]

It is time we started doing something different. I think work camps in some remote area is not such a bad idea. Let them clear the land;build their own homes, grow gardens, and learn to be self sufficient in a legal way. A little blood sweat and tears won't hurt them. Until they show that they can take responsibility for carrying their own weight and get along with others do not release them. Make sure there is ways that they can work and pay for the costs of keeping them and supervising them.

So what if their relatives cannot visit every week. If it was that important to them to keep in touch with their family; obey laws. We ask our military personnel to travel to distant countries risking their lives and leaving love ones to worry and miss them at home; prisoners do not deserve better treatment than those who serve to protect us and try to keep this world a safer place.

[takeanumber]

Upon furthur thinking,

I have to side with I think it was MS on one point.

Every community should keep the criminals that it produces in half way houses in their communities when it comes time for re-intergration.

Maybe if they had to face the community, it'll go farther in their rehab.

I'm sure there will be another thread someday on the recidicisim (Spelled Incorrectly, I know). I'll reserve some arguements for that discussion.

[Stoker]

Every community should keep the criminals that it produces in half way houses in their communities when it comes time for re-intergration.

So if a person born and raised in Vernon, moves to Vancouver, get's involved with drugs, then commites a violent crime (in Van), they should be sent back to Vernon?

[caesar]

Off the top of my head but I think the fellow that did the last murder was from Ontario.

[takeanumber]

I'm a strong believer that it takes a community to raise a child properly.

Other parents, teachers, police officers, and residents.

I've lived in a few sick communities, which have raised quite a few sick people.

Sure, if Vernon BC raises a little bastard, send the bastard back to Vernon to face the community.

Feel free to challenge the community thesis, as it's purely anecdotal.

Feel free to challenge the 'user' pay thesis. I know how much Cons HATE user pay.

[Stoker]

Sure, if Vernon BC raises a little bastard, send the bastard back to Vernon to face the community.

My bad for not being clear.........in my example the bugger is a model citizen well in Vernon, only after he moves to Vansterdam does he go down the wrong path.

So should he stay in Van or go back to Vernon?

[takeanumber]

What makes somebody go down the wrong path?

Somebody who wasn't taught three important life values:

1. Citizenship and Duty.

2. Respect. (Self, Other people's property, other ppl's lives)

3. Risk evaluation.

Now why should another town get stuck with this person while he's rehabilitated?

There's no justification, of course.

After he's done being punished, he should return to Vernon, where he can face his community.

It's his fault that he commited the crime in the first place. The community bears secondary fault. The community should have the decency to help mop up some of the mess they helped create.

The original community is where he belongs. User-Pay.

[caesar]

Sex offender walks away from halfway house

August 24, 2004 - 3:57 pm

By: Niki Upton

A convicted sex offender has walked away from a halfway house in Surrey.  Forty-two-year-old Gerald Jack Gates has an extensive history of sexual offences involving young girls.  He is 5'7", 150lbs, with dark brown hair, and he may have a beard or goatee.  Anyone who sees Gates should call police, immediately.

Another dangerous inmate on the loose from a half way house.

[caesar]

I am not so sure that the offender should be returned to his original community where his old friends are. Or where he has people he may want to get even with. Maybe it is better to keep him away from things that are too familiar and where he will find his way back into trouble sooner.

[JWayne625]

Exactly caeser, even in drug rehab programs one of the things they attempt to instill in the participants is that they cannot go back to their old ways, by associating with the people they used with. The influence is just too great that they will resume their old ways. The same holds true for criminals. Why is that many probation orders specify that they are not to associate with known felons? If one hopes to rehabilitate themselves they must first make better choices as to who they are going to associate with.

Has anyone ever listened to the conversation that goes on between resident's of a group home in the case of a Young Offender, or a half-way house in the case of adults? I have, and I can tell you that they often brag about their crimes, and about how stupid the cops (pigs) are. Remorse is not something that is a common topic of conversation. Most offenders who break into a person house believe it to be a victimless crime. I have had youth's tell me, "If the person who owns the home is too stupid to have insurance, that's their own fault."

It has not been all doom and gloom with the people I have worked with over the years, some have managed to change their lives around, but they are the one's who do it on their own. Those who go back to their old neighbourhood's, and resumed hanging out with their old friend's, usually wind up right back in the system.

[caesar]

And now, another of these characters has walked away from this half way house. This one has been serving time for sexual abuse.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear ceasar,

Until they show that they can take responsibility for carrying their own weight and get along with others do not release them.

Head of the nail on this one. No need for half-way houses if rehabilitation occurs as part and parcel of Justice Canada. That is the only way society has a 'captive audience'. Unfortunately, criminals can refuse rehab in prison and still be released after time served.

[caesar]

Don't base their sentence on time base it on steps taken to rehabilitate themselves and earn the right to rejoin society. Do not allow them to refuse to work. Make sure they do work and contribute enough labour to pay the costs of their confinement. Send them to work camps in remote areas. Let them build the camps and housing; grow vegetables and raise feed animals for their use; fish for food and start up some type of business such as logging or agriculture to pay for the costs. Perhaps they will learn a little self respect. Just punishment is not enough and it is costing us too much for little results.