Alberta is Canada's Sausagefest

[Claudius]

so... only in your head then, hey? Carry on...

Nope, as I said for anyone who made it through grade 12 social studies or went on to university....it's a given.

lets prove you to be the disingenuous poster you are. You want proof ( you don't but let's go with that assumption)? OK but you're going to have to read to get it, are you prepared to do that? Doubt it but here it is anyways:

Right here, very first page, synopsis of the book:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0030923700100302

Also...

Under the long administration (1896-1911) of Sir Wilfrid Laurier, rising wheat prices attracted vast numbers of immigrants to the Prairie Provinces. Between 1891 and 1914, more than three million people came to Canada, largely from continental Europe, following the path of the newly constructed continental railway. In the same period, mining operations were begun in the Klondike and the Canadian Shield. Large-scale development of hydroelectric resources helped foster industrialization and urbanization.

http://www.answers.com/topic/canada#ixzz1wYiRseTK

So I've proved the policy (I linked to it in black and white just a few posts ago, no doubt you didn't bother to read it) and now I link you to an entire book on it's sociological effects. I await your childish "Dat don't prove nuttin'" response shortly.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius

[Claudius]

And the seeds of bigotry against Western non-Britons:

Laurier’s Minister of the Interior from 1896-1905, Clifford Sifton, desired to populate western Canada with farmers in order to add to the production of the country, solve the “railway problem” and help pay the national debt. The government offered free homesteads to applicants who qualified.

To settle the prairies, Sifton vigorously wooed American farmers, people from Scotland and the North of England, and Eastern and Central European peasants. He believed that only agriculturalists and peasants made desirable settlers.

Sifton’s definition of a desirable immigrant was not shared by all Canadians. As a result of his policy, there was a backlash from people who saw large numbers of immigrants coming from non-British countries. Canada was a member of the British Empire and English Canadians expected the country to keep its links with their motherland strong by bringing in others with common roots.

George Exton Lloyd, writing in 1929, asks “The question for Canada is this: Can we build up a great nation while racial groups with different traditions, instincts, and ideals are being poured in to this country?” and “It will produce in Canada what it has produced in the States, a series of hyphenated Canadians who will demoralize our British institutions.”

http://www.british-immigrants-in-montreal.com/clifford_sifton_policy.html

...how many more links would you like waldo? 6? 12? 20?

Gee it doesn't look like it's only in my head after all does it? Maybe you should've paid closer attention in school.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius

[guyser]

Wake us when you have something relevant to say.

Now play nice. When you knock on my Bay St door its best not to hear "ohh its you again huh? "

[waldo]

So I've proved the policy (I linked to it in black and white just a few posts ago, no doubt you didn't bother to read it) and now I link you to an entire book on it's sociological effects. I await your childish "Dat don't prove nuttin'" response shortly.

as I said, the settlement history is well documented... you still haven't substantiated your initial post statements:

Maybe but the history of this country speaks to a deeper seeded hate. It starts a century ago when new immigrants were courted to this country and then sent to different areas depending on their nationality or creed. If you were English or Scottish you were allowed to move to Ontario, usually because you could point to a relative there or because it was thought that you (or more likely your children) would do well in English speaking university. If you were one of the mistrusted slavs, Polish, Ukranian, German etc. your only choice, generally, came down to being offered a free plot of land (if you did the work to clear and farm it) in one of the Western provinces.

equally, your 'hate projection' seems confused... contradictory. Which way was the hatred flowing/established... you know, so as to align with settlement and policy. Who was hatin!

you're speaking to, as you labeled it, a 'deep seated hatred' that became entrenched in Canadian government immigration policy.

No the deep seeded hate and mistrust came about because of the government immigration policy.

[Claudius]

as I said, the settlement history is well documented... you still haven't substantiated your initial post statements:

Yes I have, just not to you satisfaction which is irrelevant to me. If you don't want to read and learn there's nothing I can do to help you.

Once again:

Laurier’s Minister of the Interior from 1896-1905, Clifford Sifton, desired to populate western Canada with farmers in order to add to the production of the country, solve the “railway problem” and help pay the national debt. The government offered free homesteads to applicants who qualified.

To settle the prairies, Sifton vigorously wooed American farmers, people from Scotland and the North of England, and Eastern and Central European peasants. He believed that only agriculturalists and peasants made desirable settlers.

Sifton’s definition of a desirable immigrant was not shared by all Canadians. As a result of his policy, there was a backlash from people who saw large numbers of immigrants coming from non-British countries. Canada was a member of the British Empire and English Canadians expected the country to keep its links with their motherland strong by bringing in others with common roots.

George Exton Lloyd, writing in 1929, asks “The question for Canada is this: Can we build up a great nation while racial groups with different traditions, instincts, and ideals are being poured in to this country?” and “It will produce in Canada what it has produced in the States, a series of hyphenated Canadians who will demoralize our British institutions.”

http://www.british-immigrants-in-montreal.com/clifford_sifton_policy.html

and...

http://www.tandfonli...030923700100302

It has been established for anyone honest Waldo.

equally, your 'hate projection' seems confused.

Nope. For anyone who can read and understand what I've been saying has been pretty consistent and understandable.

If you want to keep yourself protected in your little world where you can tel yourself English speaking Ontario never ever ever had anything against all the Europeans migrating to Western Canada then you go ahead and stay in your comfortable little shell. For the rest of Canada who actually went to school and paid attention and then further went to university after what I describe about the developing attitudes in Ontario/Quebec towards the West is a given, a basic truism.

I don't need to spend all day explaining it to someone who didn't understand the first time he was taught and refuses to read the links he demands to prove it now.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius

[Claudius]

Now play nice. When you knock on my Bay St door its best not to hear "ohh its you again huh? "

zzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzz

7th post of nothing from you.

[Claudius]

Oh one more thing Waldo, just to tie in the policy that directs one group to the West while keeping another in Ontario (generally speaking of course). Immigration was decided upon on a case by case basis, depending on what the government thought people were best suited for. Stifton decided that only prarie farmers need apply for the West, and this ended up sending mostly Europeans, not English to the West:

Sifton felt strongly that town dwellers, artisans, shopkeepers and labourers were not desirable immigrants as they didn’t make good pioneers and would increase the population of the major cities, add to unemployment, create slum areas and become a “festering sore…which…will remain as long as Canada endures.”

“When I speak of quality I have in mind, I think, something that is quite different from what is in the mind of the average writer or speaker upon the question of Immigration. I think a stalwart peasant in a sheep-skin coat, born on the soil, whose forefathers have been farmers for ten generations, with a stout wife and a half-dozen children, is good quality.

(I.e., Ukrainian, Polish, German at the time)

A Trades Union artisan (i.e. British Isle stock) who will not work more than eight hours a day and will not work that long if he can help it, will not work on a farm at all and has to be fed by the public when his work is slack is, in my judgement, quantity and very bad quantity. I am indifferent as to whether or not he is British-born. It matters not what his nationality is; such men are not wanted in Canada, and the more of them we get the more trouble we shall have.”

http://www.british-immigrants-in-montreal.com/clifford_sifton_policy.html

I can find other quotes that more specifically points Eastern/Western Europeans over British Isles people if you like but there it is for now.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius

[guyser]

And the seeds of bigotry against Western non-Britons:

Perpetuated by a Western raised boy.

Hmm....kinda shoots the whole East is bad malarkey doesnt it?

and you admonish some for their education?

[Claudius]

Perpetuated by a Western raised boy.

Hmm....kinda shoots the whole East is bad malarkey doesnt it?

and you admonish some for their education?

Soooo....what you're saying is even when I'm right I'm still wrong? It was Lauriers policy, he just chose Stifton to implement it.

By the way....A "Western boy"? Yeah right.

Born in Middlesex County, Canada West (now Ontario)....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Sifton

Try reading your wiki's better. We're talking about the West here, Manitobia and west of, not "Western Ontario".

and you admonish some for their education?

Just the ones who stubbornly refuse to accept the obvious.

Hmm....kinda shoots the whole East is bad malarkey doesnt it?

^Proof positive that you haven't been paying attention to anything that I've said, even though you vehemently disagree with it (even though you apparently don't know what "it" is). Never suggested the East was "bad" that's your mischaracterization. I merely dared to equate them with human, complete with all the vanity that comes with it.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius

[guyser]

Soooo....what you're saying is even when I'm right I'm still wrong? It was Lauriers policy, he just chose Stifton to implement it.

Was it?

Why did you post this then...

Stifton (sic) decided that only prarie farmers need apply for the West, and this ended up sending mostly Europeans, not English to the West

oops! Gotta keep those nets moving huh?

By the way....A "Western boy"? Yeah right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Sifton

Try reading your wiki's better. We're talking about the West here, Manitobia and west of, not "Western Ontario".

About that education.....did it include reading because , as you will see, I said "Perpetuated by a Western raised boy"

Just the ones who stubbornly refuse to accept the obvious.

Like reading?

Ta ta from the Centre of the Universe.

Edited June 1, 2012 by guyser

[waldo]

Oh one more thing Waldo, just to tie in the policy that directs one group to the West while keeping another in Ontario (generally speaking of course).

generally speaking!!! Why start back-tracking now?... you're on a roll!

Immigration was decided upon on a case by case basis, depending on what the government thought people were best suited for.

oh... so now... "case by case", hey? Why, that doesn't read so discriminatory!

Stifton decided that only prarie farmers need apply for the West, and this ended up sending mostly Europeans, not English to the West.

I understand it was a most inhospitable place those early years... something about all that land that needed clearing, no settlements - nothing but the land. I wonder what background might predispose someone for success in that vein, hey? Equally, apparently... there was this most timely coincident Western Ukraine event - something about severe political and economic oppression... apparently, a lot of, as you say, "prairie farmers" were most anxious for a (presumed) better life. Why, they were actually off in droves to Brazil... given the Brazilian enticements. And then along came the Canadian government to tap into that emigration - go figure!

In any case, you still haven't substantiated your initial posts statements - no matter how many years it took you to get through the high-school you keep hyping on about!

[MiddleClassCentrist]

Your hate for a part of Canada you've never been to is as obvious as it is amusing. Good to see Ontario is still raising haters. If it's not Alberta then they hate the "newfies" or the "BC Treehuggers" or "Saskatchewan dirtfarmers", or occasionally when they're really frustrated, "Frogs".....

(sigh) Yes we can see Ontario is still the capital of bigotry in this country. It's always been that way. Comes with being constantly told you're more important than everyone else in the nation and never leaving your home town.

Ah yes, assumptions on ones person.

I used to think that Canadians were united.

Until I detected the general trend of hate flowing from West to East. I kept hearing the disdain westerners had for easterners. Even for simple things like how Ontario gets more lottery winners... They couldn't figure out that Ontario would get a good number of winners because that is where the the largest number of Canadians live.

I read them in commentaries, editorials, forums.

[Claudius]

Was it?

Why did you post this then...

Stifton (sic) decided that only prarie farmers need apply for the West, and this ended up sending mostly Europeans, not English to the West

Um, because that was the undeniable policy? It was your childish vanity that decided I was equating the East with "Bad".

About that education.....did it include reading because , as you will see, I said "Perpetuated by a Western raised boy"

(sigh) And he wasn't Western, i.e., Manitoba and West of. As I just pointed out he came from Western ONTARIO, not the West we're spaking of and have been ever since you decided to pile on your non-stop drivel in some kind of attempt to, I don't know really, just fight for the hell of it I guess.

Once more:

Western Ontario is not the West. Newfoundland also has a Western portion, one would be arguing from a pretty desperate position to call Newfoundland "The West" however.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius

[MiddleClassCentrist]

When you ask "Why does the West 'hate' Ontario/Quebec"? The answer is "Because you hated them first."

Nope. Again, grew up with nothing but love for the whole country.

Until I heard the vitriol coming out of the West.

[Claudius]

generally speaking!!! Why start back-tracking now?... you're on a roll!

No just honest. Obviously nothing like this can be described as absolute. That's just the nature of a society of millions.

oh... so now... "case by case", hey? Why, that doesn't read so discriminatory!

(sigh) They do the very same thing today. Judge immigrants on a case by case basis.

In any case, you still haven't substantiated your initial posts statements - no matter how many years it took you to get through the high-school you keep hyping on about!

Yes I have. Like I said, any child can answer back, "Nahuh! Is not" to any reality they don't like.

[Claudius]

I understand it was a most inhospitable place those early years... something about all that land that needed clearing, no settlements - nothing but the land. I wonder what background might predispose someone for success in that vein, hey? Equally, apparently... there was this most timely coincident Western Ukraine event - something about severe political and economic oppression... apparently, a lot of, as you say, "prairie farmers" were most anxious for a (presumed) better life. Why, they were actually off in droves to Brazil... given the Brazilian enticements. And then along came the Canadian government to tap into that emigration - go figure!

In any case, you still haven't substantiated your initial posts statements - no matter how many years it took you to get through the high-school you keep hyping on about!

That's funny, because you just admitted the process I'm talking about.

Whatever Waldo. It's obvious you have no intention of considering this honestly. You're right: English Ontario is perfect. They never ever ever had anything against all the Europeans coming to Canada, and even if they did that kind of immigration history could never ever ever affect attitudes today, just like they do in other countries.

You're so very right and it's so obvious absolutely nothing in the studies or books I've linked to. Have fun arguing with yourself.

[Claudius]

Nope. Again, grew up with nothing but love for the whole country.

Yes that's right. Drive across Ontario and you hear nothing but compliments towards Alberta and the West. LOL!!!

Whatever. There is no debating with someone who hasn't the guts to be honest. Simple fact is Ontario can't speak of the West without interjecting the standard redneck crap.

Until I heard the vitriol coming out of the West.

Oh good. Then you do understand that hate begets more hate. Thanks. To bad you think it's impossible any of it may have started before you were born.

[Claudius]

Ah yes, assumptions on ones person.

I used to think that Canadians were united.

Until I detected the general trend of hate flowing from West to East. I kept hearing the disdain westerners had for easterners. Even for simple things like how Ontario gets more lottery winners... They couldn't figure out that Ontario would get a good number of winners because that is where the the largest number of Canadians live.

I read them in commentaries, editorials, forums.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Listen to this crap from the guy from Ontario who starts a "Alberta is Canada's Sausagefest" thread with absolutely no other purpose than to slag Alberta. I don't see a "How come Ontario gets more lottery winners" thread anywhere.

Your hypocrisy is plain and on the record.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Claudius

[waldo]

Yes I have. Like I said, any child can answer back, "Nahuh! Is not" to any reality they don't like.

buddy... would you like a replay on just how many times you derogatorily played an education angle?

in any case, the reality you speak of is only the one playing out in your ultra-sensitive head. Still waiting for you to substantiate the following... now colour/bold-highlighted for the ignoring few (that would be you):

Maybe but the history of this country speaks to a

deeper seeded hate

. It starts a century ago when new immigrants were courted to this country and then

sent to different areas depending on their nationality or creed

. If you were English or Scottish you were

allowed

to move to Ontario, usually because you could point to a relative there or because it was thought that you (or more likely your children) would do well in English speaking university. If you were one of the

mistrusted slavs

, Polish, Ukranian, German etc.

your only choice,

generally

, came down to being offered a free plot of land (if you did the work to clear and farm it) in one of the Western provinces.

about that hate projection you were on about... the one you still won't elaborate on:

equally, your 'hate projection' seems confused... contradictory. Which way was the hatred flowing/established... you know, so as to align with settlement and policy. Who was hatin!

you're speaking to, as you labeled it, a 'deep seated hatred' that became entrenched in Canadian government immigration policy.

No the deep seeded hate and mistrust came about because of the government immigration policy.

Edited June 1, 2012 by waldo

[guyser]

Until I detected the general trend of hate flowing from West to East. I kept hearing the disdain westerners had for easterners. Even for simple things like how Ontario gets more lottery winners... They couldn't figure out that Ontario would get a good number of winners because that is where the the largest number of Canadians live.

I read them in commentaries, editorials, forums.

Shhh...only in the west does 5.8m people = 13M

[waldo]

Listen to this crap from the guy from Ontario who starts a "Alberta is Canada's Sausagefest" thread with absolutely no other purpose than to slag Alberta.

did I miss it? Just how is the endearing term 'sausagefest' a slag?

[Claudius]

buddy... would you like a replay on just how many times you derogatorily played an education angle?

in any case, the reality you speak of is only the one playing out in your ultra-sensitive head.

HAHAHAHHAHA....he said in a thread designed only to take pot shots at Alberta.

You're a joke Waldo. I will only repeat:

Whatever Waldo. It's obvious you have no intention of considering this honestly. You're right: English Ontario is perfect. They never ever ever had anything against all the Europeans coming to Canada, and even if they did that kind of immigration history could never ever ever affect attitudes today, just like they do in other countries.

[MiddleClassCentrist]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Listen to this crap from the guy from Ontario who starts a "Alberta is Canada's Sausagefest" thread with absolutely no other purpose than to slag Alberta. I don't see a "How come Ontario gets more lottery winners" thread anywhere.

Your hypocrisy is plain and on the record.

Maybe the purpose was to counter the plethora of pro Alberta propaganda in the news?

Have you never seen a big winner news article and the spam of Westerners complaining that it is another win from Ontario?

If you can't detect some sort of humour in the original post, you must be a pretty angry individual.

U mad? so sad.

[Claudius]

did I miss it? Just how is the endearing term 'sausagefest' a slag?

...lol....there's that complete lack of adult honesty again.

[waldo]

...lol....there's that complete lack of adult honesty again.

huh! Say what... fellow sausage?

Sausagefest

:

When the number of males in an environment overwhelmingly exceeds the amount of females present